Buzzing bulbs

[Screw Loose Dan]

My garage has 5 8' fixtures, 2 bulbs each. When I bought the house back in May, one fixture's bulbs were burnt out. I got the only replacements that Lowes carried to fit my style pins and length, F96T12/CW/HO/COLD.

At that time I bought an entire box but only swapped the burnt out fixture's. I immediately noticed the original bulbs looked a bit dim in comparison. I have now noticed that it is a bit cooler in the garage, these new bulbs upon starting are much brighter compared to the old bulbs.

So, I started swapping out the old bulbs for new ones. The light have always buzzed a fair bit, but the new bulbs seem to be buzzing even louder. That got me to thinking, are these bulbs even compatible for the ballasts?

Here's the original bulbs:

Here's the ballast (Click for larger view):


And here's the replacement bulbs:

So, I think my questions are:

1. Are the new F96T12/CW/HO/COLD bulbs safe to use with this ballast? (I believe they are, as the ballast says "F96T12/HO)
2. Is there anyway to reduce the audible buzzing? New ballasts?

Any insight would be helpful.

 

[TommyD]

Does it stop once the bulbs heat up?

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

No, it keeps buzzing away. It might get slightly quieter, but it's hard to say for sure.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Magnetic ballast, by their very nature are going to cause buzzing. Its the metal of the lamp fixture vibrating due to the magnetic fields created by the ballast. Installing the new bulbs has placed a greater load on the ballast, as the new bulbs are putting out more light, and this greater load is causing the buzzing. Nothing you can do really, its the nature of the beast. Might be able to re mount the fixture in a way to dampen the vibrations.

Charles

 

[climbabout]

The bulbs that you bought and the ballasts you have are absolutely compatible. The new bulbs you bought that are marked cold temp are actually the non energy saving version of the bulbs that were installed when you bought the house. Years ago, F96T12Ho lamps were rated at 110 watts each. When the government passed the energy policy act, the manufacturers were required to make an energy saving version of the same lamp which became the 95 watt super saver lamp which was installed in your garage when you bought it. End users complained that the new energy saving 95 watt versions were not as bright and did not work as well in the cold. The manufacturers were able to get around this by labelling the original 110 watt versions as "cold temp" and thus get around the law. I use these same lamps in my own garage and yes, they are considerably brighter than the super savers.
The buzzing you hear is actually coming from the ballast. HO ballasts are designed for use in garages and shops and therefore are not designed to be as quiet as ballasts designed for use in offices. Some ballasts will buzz louder than others - mine do the same. You could buy a new electronic version of the ballast you have and it should be quieter.
Tim

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

Magnetic ballast, by their very nature are going to cause buzzing.
...
Nothing you can do really, its the nature of the beast. Might be able to re mount the fixture in a way to dampen the vibrations.

Thanks for the response.

Is it possible to replace the magnetic ballast with an electronic one?

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

The bulbs that you bought and the ballasts you have are absolutely compatible. The new bulbs you bought that are marked cold temp are actually the non energy saving version of the bulbs that were installed when you bought the house. Years ago, F96T12Ho lamps were rated at 110 watts each. When the government passed the energy policy act, the manufacturers were required to make an energy saving version of the same lamp which became the 95 watt super saver lamp which was installed in your garage when you bought it. End users complained that the new energy saving 95 watt versions were not as bright and did not work as well in the cold. The manufacturers were able to get around this by labelling the original 110 watt versions as "cold temp" and thus get around the law. I use these same lamps in my own garage and yes, they are considerably brighter than the super savers.
The buzzing you hear is actually coming from the ballast. HO ballasts are designed for use in garages and shops and therefore are not designed to be as quiet as ballasts designed for use in offices. Some ballasts will buzz louder than others - mine do the same. You could buy a new electronic version of the ballast you have and it should be quieter.
Tim

Thanks for the response! That pretty much answers it!

 

[phiftyseven]

Like the above responses say, you are using the correct bulbs for the fixtures. I use full wattage (110 watt) bulbs also, since my pole barn is unheated, and I also have the buzzing. Even in the summer they buzz, but not as much as in the cold winter months. Electronic ballasts are available, but expect to spend $70 - $80 each. I'm just going to live with the buzzing until they burn out, then I'l look into electronic. I usually have the radio on anyway, so that drowns out the buzzing for me. If you do decide to go electronic, compare the cost of a new fixture to just the ballast. It may be more economical to get a new fixture if the price isn't that far off. You'll also have to re-wire the old fixture, since the electronic ballasts have a different wiring diagram than the magnetic ballasts.

 

[TommyD]

IF you elect to replace the ballasts check a thread here about issues with them. The last thread I answered on what I, and my electrician, now know about residential and commercial ballasts.

 

[pattenp]

I have those same type of lights. I replaced a couple of bad ballast with the new electronic ones and the fixtures do not buzz nearly as much as they did with the magnetic ballast. I got the ballast at Home Depot and they cost $38 each.

HD Link: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...10053&langId=-1&keyword=ballast&storeId=10051

 

[Steevo]

Those are Canadian bulbs.
They don't work well when installed below 43º latitude, eh?

Just kidding.

 

[pattenp]

It's funny that you made that comment. I bought some T8 tubes that were Canadian made. Same brand (Sylvania 4100K) that was in my lights, but the ones in my lights were US made. The color of the Canadian made ones were really different. I took the Canada made ones back and found some US made ones and the color matched my existing tubes.

Those are Canadian bulbs.
They don't work well when installed below 43º latitude, eh?

Just kidding.

 

[Interex]

As others have said, its all in the ballasts. Based on the picture you posted, you've got older magnetic ballasts that are known for buzzing. Electronic ballasts can be easily retrofitted in just about any fixture. Check your local big box stores for pricing and availability.

Be aware that starting in July of this year, F96T12 (95w & 110w) bulbs will no longer be manufactured per the USDOE laws.

My recommendation would be to look at T5 or T8 HO fixtures instead of retrofitting your old fixtures.

 

[pattenp]

Are you sure of this? The T12 95w/110w are HO tubes and it's my understanding the HO's are exempt. I don't think you can even get the T12 110w tubes anymore, I believe they are only 95w now.

As others have said, its all in the ballasts. Based on the picture you posted, you've got older magnetic ballasts that are known for buzzing. Electronic ballasts can be easily retrofitted in just about any fixture. Check your local big box stores for pricing and availability.

Be aware that starting in July of this year, F96T12 (95w & 110w) bulbs will no longer be manufactured per the USDOE laws.

My recommendation would be to look at T5 or T8 HO fixtures instead of retrofitting your old fixtures.

 

[climbabout]

Actually, according to the packet I have from Sylvania, lamps marked "cold temperature" are currently exempt from the July 2012 phaseout.
Tim

 

[nehog]

...
The buzzing you hear is actually coming from the ballast. HO ballasts are designed for use in garages and shops and therefore are not designed to be as quiet as ballasts designed for use in offices. Some ballasts will buzz louder than others - mine do the same. You could buy a new electronic version of the ballast you have and it should be quieter.
Tim

The OP's ballasts are sound rated as "B" which is considered a relatively quiet ballast. A "B" rated ballast is intended for residential and other areas where quiet operation is intended (for the record, "A" is the most quiet, while "F" is the most noisy)

I suspect that a couple of things might help, checking the tightness of the mounting hardware for both the ballasts and for the fixtures may help. Possibly a cushioning pad between the ballast and the case of the fixture may help as well.

Of course, as you say, new electronic ballasts will absolutely eliminate the problem!

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

Thanks for all the responses! I do appreciate all the feedback and insight.

I decided I would try the electronic ballasts offered at Lowes and HD. I bought one of each to give them a try. Just having the 2 out of the 5 quiet is great...but it of course came at a price. Now the FM radio buzzes... LOL. (which wasn't unexpected!)

I usually have the radio on anyway, so that drowns out the buzzing for me. If you do decide to go electronic, compare the cost of a new fixture to just the ballast. It may be more economical to get a new fixture if the price isn't that far off. You'll also have to re-wire the old fixture, since the electronic ballasts have a different wiring diagram than the magnetic ballasts. .

I probably would just turn the radio up, but I work odd hours. So the time I get to spend in the garage is often in the wee hours of the night/morning. The neighbor's house is a little close to be rocking out at 3:00 AM...

I am considering new fixtures as well. Just giving new ballasts a try first. But, I'm thinking with what I'm learning about residential versus commercial ratings and also the better (more?) choices in ballasts and lights, new fixtures may be the way to go. I think I would go with T8's with 4 4' bulbs. You get a lot more options that way it appears.

Just an FYI, the two new ballasts I've tried are identical in wiring colors and diagram to the old ballasts.

IF you elect to replace the ballasts check a thread here about issues with them. The last thread I answered on what I, and my electrician, now know about residential and commercial ballasts.

I had read the thread(s?) on the RFI issues, but re-read them again. Thanks!

The ones I picked up at HD and Lowes were not marked as either Commercial or Residential on the exterior packaging, so I kinda figured I knew what I was buying (NOT residential).

My google searching unfortunately has also turned up empty. It doesn't appear that these F96T12HO ballasts are offered in a "Residential" (or more properly FCC Section 15 Type B). I can only find electronic ballasts for F96T12 listed as "Commercial", "FCC Class A", or "Non-Consumer"...nothing listed as "Residential", "Consumer", or "Class B" (which would indicate less likely to make radio interference).

I have those same type of lights. I replaced a couple of bad ballast with the new electronic ones and the fixtures do not buzz nearly as much as they did with the magnetic ballast. I got the ballast at Home Depot and they cost $38 each.

HD Link: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...10053&langId=-1&keyword=ballast&storeId=10051

Thanks! I did get that one. It doesn't audibly buzz...but now the radio buzzes!



It is listed as "FCC - CLASS A Non-Consumer" as per the spec sheet.

The OP's ballasts are sound rated as "B" which is considered a relatively quiet ballast. A "B" rated ballast is intended for residential and other areas where quiet operation is intended (for the record, "A" is the most quiet, while "F" is the most noisy)

I suspect that a couple of things might help, checking the tightness of the mounting hardware for both the ballasts and for the fixtures may help. Possibly a cushioning pad between the ballast and the case of the fixture may help as well.

Of course, as you say, new electronic ballasts will absolutely eliminate the problem!

"Relatively quiet"...yeah now that I'm looking, I see they make some really noisy ballasts. And through my online research, I do see they make (made?) some magnetic ballasts as sound rating of "A". But, none of them are silent (like the electronic ones). And I suspect, knowing my OCD, I will now not be happy until they are silent.

The mounting screws I holding the ballasts in were tight (of the two I mucked with). But, the fixtures themselves have very few screws, mostly slots and tabs. Which I could see as being a contributing factor to the audible buzz. I imagine I could probably cut down on the noise quite a bit with some properly placed cushions...but now that I'm obsessing...

Thanks again on all the input!

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

Update -

I ordered a couple of powerline filters to try to eliminate the radio buzz the new electronic ballasts produce. Success!! They aren't cheap, but the work.

Here's a link to them on Mouser.com. If that doesn't work, search for PN 3FL3.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-Corcom/3FL3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsOthVV91/yqHYLYq7i8llv

Here's a direct link to the manufacturer data sheet:

http://www.te.com/catalog/bin/TE.Connect?C=1&M=BYPN&PN=3FL3

Extremely easy to install, just wired in series between the line in and ballast. There are hot/neutral leads for both the line and load sides. And presumably, the case is ground. I screwed the filter to the inside of the fixture housing and ensured a proper ground (the case already was, but just made sure to loop a ground wire under the mounting screw anyway).

Two of my fixtures are done and completely quiet (audibly and rfi). Now that I know it will work, I'll weigh my options and decide to go new ballast w/filters or all new fixtures...

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

I ended up buying new ballasts (found the same ones that Home Depot has on eBay for over $10 less). Bought a total of 5 RFI filters. Installed everything. Good, bright bulbs at cooler temps, no more annoying buzz, AND I can still listen to my FM radio!!

 

[darcyh]

Update -

I ordered a couple of powerline filters to try to eliminate the radio buzz the new electronic ballasts produce. Success!! They aren't cheap, but the work.

Here's a link to them on Mouser.com. If that doesn't work, search for PN 3FL3.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-Corcom/3FL3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsOthVV91/yqHYLYq7i8llv

Here's a direct link to the manufacturer data sheet:

http://www.te.com/catalog/bin/TE.Connect?C=1&M=BYPN&PN=3FL3

Extremely easy to install, just wired in series between the line in and ballast. There are hot/neutral leads for both the line and load sides. And presumably, the case is ground. I screwed the filter to the inside of the fixture housing and ensured a proper ground (the case already was, but just made sure to loop a ground wire under the mounting screw anyway).

Two of my fixtures are done and completely quiet (audibly and rfi). Now that I know it will work, I'll weigh my options and decide to go new ballast w/filters or all new fixtures...

Hello:

Just ordered a bunch of these. I hope they will do the trick!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

Hope they work for you as well as they work for me! Let us know.

 

[darcyh]

I purchased 13 filters. Installed 3 on the first bank of lights and 95% of RF noise eliminated! It's nice to be able to listen to the radio again. I'll install the rest of the filters this weekend.

This was a great find on your part! Thanks

I also noticed some LED bulbs emit pretty nasty RF noise too. The Ecosmart 9 watt bulb and Lights of America flood lights make real nasty noise on the FM band. I tried an LG 12 watt bulb (Costco) and it is very quiet in terms of FM noise.

These darn switching power supplies are not very well RF suppressed.

Thanks again for the tip!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

Glad it helped! That's excellent! It's a shame the filters are as costly as they are. I suspect the innards are pretty cheap but I'm guessing between packaging cost and UL approval it adds up.

I never thought about the LED lights potentially having the same issue, but it makes perfect sense. Seems like it couldn't cost that much for the manufacturers to suppress the RFI, but I guess its a few more pennies for them. But, I'll be keeping my eyes open when buying LEDs as well. Thank you.

 

[njbadboy]

Hey guys I was reading through the post since I am experiencing the same problem with the FM Radio that is plugged in. I recently had six T8's installed in my 30x32 pole barn, and once I turn them on, I lose all reception.

Would I need one RFI filter per light? All of the lights are on one 12/2 circuit.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[nehog]

Thanks for the response! That pretty much answers it!

The bulbs are correct for your ballasts, but your ballasts are sound rated 'B' which means they will make some noise. Age usually increases noise too. Being magnetic ballasts they are old technology, inefficient, and probably will fail at some point, and then simply either replace the entire fixture with a new one, or the ballast with a new electronic ballast.

Until then, just turn the radio up some more.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The bulbs are correct for your ballasts, but your ballasts are sound rated 'B' which means they will make some noise. Age usually increases noise too. Being magnetic ballasts they are old technology, inefficient, and probably will fail at some point, and then simply either replace the entire fixture with a new one, or the ballast with a new electronic ballast.

Until then, just turn the radio up some more.

If u read through the thread, this was already addressed!

 

[bookman51]

I posted this as a separate thread, but since I saw this thread, I will add this message. Hope it is not too much of a hijack!

I just got installed t-5 lights is my metal pole building. Unfortunately turning on the lights knocks (creates a loud buzz) on most of the radio stations I want to listen to (both AM and FM).

I had asked the supplier ahead of time if there would be a problem and he said "no." The supplier called the company (Atlas Lights) they said they seldom have of a problem. Well, I doubt it given what I see on the internet and in talking with friends with metal pole buildings.

It is definitely the lights. Turn them on...just a buzz for all but stations in town. I can pick up okay both local AM and FM stations but anything over 30 miles away has a loud buzz. Turn the lights off, and I can pick up what I always picked up

Are there solutions? I have tried relocating the radios (I have two in my shop), checking out the sound with a newer radio, moving the antenna, grounding one of the radios (had a screw on it that said ground), etc. Still the same problem.

I reviewed some of the threads on the forum but did not see a solution, but hopefully someone has one.

Thanks in advance.

 

[bookman51]

Update -

I ordered a couple of powerline filters to try to eliminate the radio buzz the new electronic ballasts produce. Success!! They aren't cheap, but the work.

Here's a link to them on Mouser.com. If that doesn't work, search for PN 3FL3.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TE-Connectivity-Corcom/3FL3/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsOthVV91/yqHYLYq7i8llv

Here's a direct link to the manufacturer data sheet:

http://www.te.com/catalog/bin/TE.Connect?C=1&M=BYPN&PN=3FL3

Extremely easy to install, just wired in series between the line in and ballast. There are hot/neutral leads for both the line and load sides. And presumably, the case is ground. I screwed the filter to the inside of the fixture housing and ensured a proper ground (the case already was, but just made sure to loop a ground wire under the mounting screw anyway).

Two of my fixtures are done and completely quiet (audibly and rfi). Now that I know it will work, I'll weigh my options and decide to go new ballast w/filters or all new fixtures...

Wow. At $25 each and 9 lights 15 feet in the air, this is not the solution I had hoped for. But thanks anyway.

 

[Screw Loose Dan]

Yeah, $25 extra per ballast is not cheap (might work with on filter on the entire lighting circuit, but I didn't try that). The preferable solution (I think) is to find ballasts that are rated for residential/consumer grade applications. Unfortunately, in my case I couldn't find any for the F96T12 fixtures/bulbs.

 

[BFBOB]

Thanks for all the responses! I do appreciate all the feedback and insight.

IThe mounting screws I holding the ballasts in were tight (of the two I mucked with). But, the fixtures themselves have very few screws, mostly slots and tabs. Which I could see as being a contributing factor to the audible buzz. I imagine I could probably cut down on the noise quite a bit with some properly placed cushions...but now that I'm obsessing...

Thanks again on all the input!

Tight mounting screws are the problem, not the solution. Most mag ballasts have a screw hole at each end. Drill em out if necessary to provide clearance and insert a rubber sleeve- fuel line, whatever, and rubber washers top and bottom, so no metal to metal contact with the light fixture. The hum will be greatly reduced. Of course, there may not be an extra 1/4" of height inside your fixture to do this!
I'm fighting this battle right now with MH ballasts. Nice sturdy, strong mounts and they hum like mad. The looser, the quieter. No room for rubber mounting in my case.
Good luck!