C-man BLACK Raised Panel SPLINE Combo
- Thread starter xroad
- Start date
Bolster
Well-known member
Yep, you got that right.
BackTracker
Well-known member
agreed.....
Hate to say it, but I don't think it's a trial balloon, more like the shape of things to come.
OldSchoolSS
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Messages
- 204
I checked them out on my way home from work today. The color scheme looks pretty cool, the quality seems sub-par. Rough, sharp edges, I wouldn't pay more than 10 dollars for them.
BackTracker
Well-known member
If by $10 you meant $11 you may be in luck. they were on sale online for 11 bucks two days ago...I';m sure they will be again!
arkangel06
Banned
Come to Canada to see the future of Craftsman tools
Theres not 1 single USA made craftsman tool in my local sears store.
It will be a real scary eye opener for you guys if you ever come over the border visit sears and try not to vomit!
The prices are even higher then the prices your quoting for their USA made tools.
If anyone wants i can take some pictures of the ''craftsman'' sockest/wrenches we get over here.
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If by $10 you meant $11 you may be in luck. they were on sale online for 11 bucks two days ago...I';m sure they will be again!
WHAT ??!! Dang it ! I just paid $20. I'll hold on to it till it goes to $11 again ... what is the exchange policy, 90 days?
BackTracker
Well-known member
Lord only knows if that was one of their infamous website errors anyway... I'm keeping mine it's not worth the hassle over a 8 or 9 bucks.
jkeyser14
Well-known member
I got to see these in person at Danaher and I have to say they are pretty nice. They work on all drives, 4, 6, 12 pt, etc. Danaher has a user review panel where they show things like this off looking for feedback. I'll probably be picking up a set this year.
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Just picked it up an hour ago. I am impressed. Even more impressed being only $20 for 7 pieces. Tried it on a couple of chewed up nuts on my REALLY OLD Schwinn. The axle nuts were "worked on" with pliers, vise grips, channel locks, open end, adjustable, and sometimes even proper box and sockets. They are so round that 6 point sockets don't work anymore. Over the years, I just got lazy and never got around to get replacement nuts. Recently, I used the Sears Extreme Grip wrench and they work great. Tried the spline ... Fantastic!
I suppose if they were chromed, edges beveled or rounded, more polished, it'll cost more. They are fine by me.
I suppose if they were chromed, edges beveled or rounded, more polished, it'll cost more. They are fine by me.
jkeyser14
Well-known member
Ok, I caved and ordered the two sets along with a replacement combination wrench that went missing from my set.
Bart Simpson
Well-known member
I never saw this post till today.
I happened across these in the store over this past weekend and I was very surprised by the $19.99 price.
I thought that was dirt cheap ,and they weren't even on sale.
I looked them over and I was not impressed at all.
They looked kind of funky and of poor quality.
I doubt that cheap black finish will last long either.
I didn't notice that they were made in China ...but that sure makes sense now.
You are getting what you pay for.....and your not paying much.
The box is basicaly just a spline,and that is available from a number of companies like S-K , etc. , etc.
I wouldn't buy them even for $11 as they seem like cheap junk and I really doubt they would be a lifesaver.
I have flank drive wrenches , twist sockets or a blue wrench, but one way or another I will get things loose without these.
I think it is a sad day when they have the name CHINA on a Craftsman wrench.
I choose to spend my hard earned money on quality American made products whenever possible.
I happened across these in the store over this past weekend and I was very surprised by the $19.99 price.
I thought that was dirt cheap ,and they weren't even on sale.
I looked them over and I was not impressed at all.
They looked kind of funky and of poor quality.
I doubt that cheap black finish will last long either.
I didn't notice that they were made in China ...but that sure makes sense now.
You are getting what you pay for.....and your not paying much.
The box is basicaly just a spline,and that is available from a number of companies like S-K , etc. , etc.
I wouldn't buy them even for $11 as they seem like cheap junk and I really doubt they would be a lifesaver.
I have flank drive wrenches , twist sockets or a blue wrench, but one way or another I will get things loose without these.
I think it is a sad day when they have the name CHINA on a Craftsman wrench.
I choose to spend my hard earned money on quality American made products whenever possible.
It was mentioned in an earlier post, they are a bit on the heavier side. I compared the "ring" side by side with my Craftsman raised panel box end wrench. They are a bit bigger and thicker. But, I doubt they will break while in use, I doubt they will slip on a nut. Even if they rust due to poor finish, I think they will still work.
If they live up to the standards of many tool enthusiast here, I think many big name brands will be in deep trouble. The product is a result of a different business model. They are targeting guys like me, not guys that buy Snap-On's.
My obsession on size and weight was targeted for my motorcycle carry tool kit. That will be fulfilled when my order of Nepros wrench arrived. Can't wait.
If they live up to the standards of many tool enthusiast here, I think many big name brands will be in deep trouble. The product is a result of a different business model. They are targeting guys like me, not guys that buy Snap-On's.
My obsession on size and weight was targeted for my motorcycle carry tool kit. That will be fulfilled when my order of Nepros wrench arrived. Can't wait.
Not for $20.
Bart Simpson
Well-known member
No question about that .
I dont think they will probably break from normal use either , probably just rust up quickly.
They just look to be badly finished and of poor quality in general.
I believe in buying quality tools.
I make my money here and I prefer to spend it here on US made products as that benifits all Americans.
You can buy all the Foreign made stuff you want it is a free country.
China is not though.
Just hope you don't lose your job if your employer moves his company overseas as so many have.
A sad, sad day for sure. Wait until that black coating starts wearing off on you sweaty, greasy hands.
I saw them at the store and was not impressed with either it or the dogbone they had on the shelf, also China manufactured.
I'm voting with my dollar, NO WAY I'm buying these.
If this is the way Cman goes, I'm going to start hoarding USA Cman.
I saw them at the store and was not impressed with either it or the dogbone they had on the shelf, also China manufactured.
I'm voting with my dollar, NO WAY I'm buying these.
If this is the way Cman goes, I'm going to start hoarding USA Cman.
A bit off topic here but since I am the OP, I don't mind ....
I am already competing with electrical engineers from India and China. I accept this fact of life in that situation. They are willing to work for less than me, a lot less. I cannot go lower in my salary requirement because I live here in US and cost of living is higher than China and India. My only weapon is to be a better engineer than they are. Some times, that works, and some times, they are kick *** engineers. Many of them are very good in what they do. If I am younger, I would go back to school and get my masters or get certify as a P.E. Then I can compete better. Now, I just try to play the hand that was dealt to me the best I can.
From the employer point of view, they have no choice. Either hire Chinese and Indian engineers or the company will not be competitive with competitors in the same industry. The company will not survive. What else do I get? Some stock options. So if the company do well, the stock goes up, I can exercise the stock and I add to my total income. If the company do badly, the stock is worthless.
So, my company can insist on hiring US citizen only but the numbers will not work out. The business will not be viable at all.
This is no different from early days of our country. Adjacent states have a lower cost of living or the people demand a lower pay scale, the factories will move to the area with lower cost. Hell, they do that now. Companies in NYC move their office across the river to Jersey City. Why? So that they have the beautiful NYC sky line out their window? Current situation is just the same but a bigger global scale.
You can blame the invention of the internet and advances in communications. It allows drawings and documents sent to the other side of the world with a click of the mouse. Draftsmen and low level lawyers that review legal documents suddenly find their thought to be safe job shipped to ... Singapore where they have teams of local lawyers that specialize in US corporate law, for example.
Here is another example ... why would VW or Toyota set up a plant in the US? Because they want to provide us with jobs? Because they like us? NO! Because we had a better pay scale AND better workmanship. They can get better rate in China or India but the quality of built would not be the same. Their skill set is not up to par ... YET.
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jkeyser14
Well-known member
The black coating is a black oxide, it will wear off no more than the finish on a hand gun wears off. Yes, it will eventually wear, but it's not going to just rub off in your palm..
As our country lost manufacturing jobs to the far east, we also created new jobs that the far east cannot do. Bill Gates created Microsoft. Thousands of jobs were created. Extended related companies added countless jobs in the software industry. The tools they use, the PC, created a need for maintenance and the IT industry popped up and countless jobs were created there. So we loose some and gain some. The world moves very fast, not like decades ago. In my father's time, he can count on working for the same company for his entire career. Now, I have to reinvent myself a few time between the time I get out of school and retirement. Either swim or sink. That is just the reality of the world. Advances in transportation, communication, internet is all to blame.
For our future, we as a nation, just have to fight for our slice of the world pie. Decades ago, every county is "the 3rd world" and we dictate to them. Now, all of them are getting their High School educations, Bachelors, Masters, & PHDs. Now, they start to dictate to us. If they can claw themselves out of their mud hole, we can muster some drive and compete. Sitting back and complaint did not help me. I did not have the time to go back to school for another degree but certainly took the time out to learn new skills that fewer people possess. Swim or sink, nobody gave me any pity when I was on the unemployment line, nor I was waiting for any pity. No time. Took a few engineering classes while looking for a job.
For our future, we as a nation, just have to fight for our slice of the world pie. Decades ago, every county is "the 3rd world" and we dictate to them. Now, all of them are getting their High School educations, Bachelors, Masters, & PHDs. Now, they start to dictate to us. If they can claw themselves out of their mud hole, we can muster some drive and compete. Sitting back and complaint did not help me. I did not have the time to go back to school for another degree but certainly took the time out to learn new skills that fewer people possess. Swim or sink, nobody gave me any pity when I was on the unemployment line, nor I was waiting for any pity. No time. Took a few engineering classes while looking for a job.
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For me, Made in USA has always been the hook. Should Sears go "All China, All The Time" with Craftsman, I see no reason to ever go back there. If I'm suffered to buy off-shore, I'll get with Wren & TopTul.
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I could try and say it better...but I can't.
The spline part of the box end is an insert into the main body of the box end. Why don't they design it so they are like the old 12 point box end wrench? It will make a smaller box to fir into more compact tight space. Is the metal for the spline part harder? If so, does the spline design put more stress on the contact surface of the tool than a 12 point?
The Muffin Man
Well-known member
Toptul is Taiwanese, not Chinese.
The Republic Of China is commonly known as Taiwan.
Right...
Republic of China = commonly known as Taiwan
People's Republic of China = commonly known as China
Chinese Crafstsman, what a bummer.
I saw them last w/e at the local sears. What a sad day it was for me to know that there were now Craftsman tools that are made in CHINA. I knew it was coming but it is still sad to me.
On the up side, the things look good and are priced decent. Felt nice but I couldn't bring myself to buy a set to try.
Still stuck on my Dad's advice of not the buy tools from across the pond. Save the "they're just as good or better" and the price is good. I am sure they are but I still like to buy my tools and they must be made in AMERICA.
It is a sad day for Sears to producing tools in China.... However, Im sure they are closely watching companies like HF and NT and figuring that they are missing out on a lot of opportunity. The reality is that many consumers of tools dont care where its made as long as its decent and inexpensive. I would think that if you are reading this thread, you are in the upper 10% of tool users that love 'em so much, your willing to take time out of your day to read tool threads.
I prefer made in USA too, but Im also thankful for cos like HF and NT as well. My father did not have a wide selection of tools cause his options were Napa, Sears or the tool truck. Internet, ebay and craigslist did not exist. For instance, he could never afford professional AC guages. if he wanted to fix his AC on his car, he was screwed b/c no tools - so he never learned AC repair. Fortunately cos like HF has made tools like this affordable for the hobbyist like me so that you can learn how to repair these systems.
Im always struggling with sourcing parts/tools for HVAC, electrical, hydraulic automotive etc. These industries are very closed and fortunately the internet is the only way to find the components you need to fix stuff around the house. My father could have never replaced an ignition system on central heat on his house, cause the knowledge/part supply was closed and parts could not be sourced unless you had a buddy or were a contractor.
What does this have to do with tools made in china? I guess my point is that its a dynamic world and you have to compete to survive. If I look at everything, I think we are better off now than 20 years ago - the "knowledge" has opened up new worlds/opportunities to fix and service systems that the previous generation knew nothing about. Ill take a free market over closed one any day. I prefer options - even if made in china - over less options. Its up to the american consumer to "wake up" and stop eating its own. I think the man on the street will begin to wake up when professional white collar jobs - like doctors etc - start going overseas. No way is our economy going to make it as a "service economy".
I was in Zurich a few years ago. It was very apparent that the swiss embrace manufacturing. Why the USA was so willing to give up manufacturing is beyond me? Greed, arrogance, I dont know... We need to wake up.
Sorry, for the lack of direction with post. Just typing out my stream of consciousness...
I prefer made in USA too, but Im also thankful for cos like HF and NT as well. My father did not have a wide selection of tools cause his options were Napa, Sears or the tool truck. Internet, ebay and craigslist did not exist. For instance, he could never afford professional AC guages. if he wanted to fix his AC on his car, he was screwed b/c no tools - so he never learned AC repair. Fortunately cos like HF has made tools like this affordable for the hobbyist like me so that you can learn how to repair these systems.
Im always struggling with sourcing parts/tools for HVAC, electrical, hydraulic automotive etc. These industries are very closed and fortunately the internet is the only way to find the components you need to fix stuff around the house. My father could have never replaced an ignition system on central heat on his house, cause the knowledge/part supply was closed and parts could not be sourced unless you had a buddy or were a contractor.
What does this have to do with tools made in china? I guess my point is that its a dynamic world and you have to compete to survive. If I look at everything, I think we are better off now than 20 years ago - the "knowledge" has opened up new worlds/opportunities to fix and service systems that the previous generation knew nothing about. Ill take a free market over closed one any day. I prefer options - even if made in china - over less options. Its up to the american consumer to "wake up" and stop eating its own. I think the man on the street will begin to wake up when professional white collar jobs - like doctors etc - start going overseas. No way is our economy going to make it as a "service economy".
I was in Zurich a few years ago. It was very apparent that the swiss embrace manufacturing. Why the USA was so willing to give up manufacturing is beyond me? Greed, arrogance, I dont know... We need to wake up.
Sorry, for the lack of direction with post. Just typing out my stream of consciousness...
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Thanks for watching my back, Olds. I edited my post to be more PC, should make everyone happy.
Shocker
Well-known member
I will put US degree's up against India and China any day of the week. The last project I had, I had 8 engineers from India working on it. All I got was "It is done!" "Working great" and it was nothing of the sort.
That took 6 months to see the fog of delay's and promises. Pulled the work and gave it to 2 guys in California. It was done perfectly and right on the money in 2 weeks.
Not to say I haven't had results from teams in those area's. It just takes longer, you have to weed through the cultural "Yes" men and try to keep them herded in the same direction. I try to use folks in the US if I can. Israel is also another region that can be relied upon.
Just MHO.
That took 6 months to see the fog of delay's and promises. Pulled the work and gave it to 2 guys in California. It was done perfectly and right on the money in 2 weeks.
Not to say I haven't had results from teams in those area's. It just takes longer, you have to weed through the cultural "Yes" men and try to keep them herded in the same direction. I try to use folks in the US if I can. Israel is also another region that can be relied upon.
Just MHO.
BackTracker
Well-known member
Having some experience on the topic, I can wholeheartedly agree with you.
I agree 100 percent. I am dealing with this at my job for the last 8 years. However, it is not ALL bad. A few Indian project got done very well. It really depends on the team working on the project. Many were a total waste of time.
I firmly believe the issue is management. The Indian teams are top notch and very capable engineers with Masters and PhD's.. Many educated in the US. While they screw up the project over there, we bring them here for 4 months and they did fantastic in our office in the US. I believe they are managed better by the firmware manager here, better QUALITY CONTROL! We also provide a better environment for mutual technical support and work culture. All those variables makes a difference. So, my company's management had learned the lesson that just throwing the job over the pond is not going to get it done. They still need to be watch and manage properly. I find the Chinese and Indian workers are very hard workers. They are dedicated and driven. What they do not have is management skills. Some day, they will learn that as well. THAT is when we really be in trouble. It is happening right in front of my eyes. Colleagues that are Indian or Chinese nationals, after years of experience in the US as project managers and program managers and business unit directors, are going back to their home countries to pick up huge promotions or start their own companies.
Back to tools ... The Chinese have a space program. Even if the stole all the technologies, they did not made it into space by accident. Why are they selling crappy tools? Because some AMERICAN company contracted one of their factories to make tools with that quality. AND, the American society have a market for such tools. If the American company change the spec to better quality, the Chinese factory will make and deliver tools per the better spec.
I love to see an American company make high quality tools that will be price and quality competitive. How big will that market be? From a business point of view, would it make more sense to target what 90% of what the public will be willing to buy or the other 10%? Almost all will want Snap-On's. Not many will be willing to pay that price.
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olds88
Well-known member
And theres the marketing philosophy behind Gearwrench.
BackTracker
Well-known member
Seems to be working out for them as well don't you think?
Good points - I agree with the comments above. I enjoy working with Swiss, German and Austrian engineers. I work with many from other western european countries as well. Our mfg line in Thailand takes constant hand-holding and direction. They are very 'literal' in work instructions. Its like if you tell them in a work instruction to adjust microscope focus before building parts, they will interpret that as the microscope needed to be adjusted before every part even though they adjusted it on the first part. Crappy example but deal with that kinda stuff where a worker from US thinks about it and understands that its probably not necessary for every part.
That is what I mean when I said America have a unique environment that nurture learning and innovation. If you take that individual and brig him here and work side by side with his American counterpart, he will quickly pick up those subtle pints. He is probably not too different from a new id fresh out of school and got the same job in America. My point is that the guy that calibrate the scope for every part did not have a manager to tell him not to. More likely, the manager don't know any better either.
The company where I work had a (ex) CEO that is very insistent on moving all firmware development out from the technical headquarter to the "design centers" in India & China. Well, it turned out it is not as simple. Good workers, bad managers. Lots of "bosses" and no leadership. Almost every project was a total flop. Few project that we decide to save by bringing the firmware developers to the US to finish the project. Under the US managers guidance and the work environment, the project was recovered. Turns out the FW developers were very good engineers. It is leadership. Throw them a good PC and an internet line is not enough.
It is a different business model. Snap-On targets a different market segment from the one Sears targets. We all sees a big gap of quality and price between the two. So did Gearwrench apparently. Where are all the others? I am sure Gearwrench did not fill the entire gap.
GT89mustang
Well-known member
Guys just an fyi. These are on sale for $11.99 and today (sunday) its an extra 10% off online all day and in-store from 6-9pm. In case someone wants a set.