Cabinets drawers and more

[andyvh1959]

This is for my kitchen project, but it is relative to others planning cabinets for their garage.

Back in 2003 I updated the kitchen in my 1973 home, bought in 2002. Modified the doors and drawers fronts from dark walnut stained oak to painted ivory, but with the typical cheap exposed hinges. Now I am planning a major refacing, new doors, drawer fronts, hidden hinges, door/drawer overlay the framing to make it current looking. Even changing some of the framing to maximize drawer sizes and change lower cabinets with doors to large pullout drawers. The current drawers are all cheap pine construction butted corners glued/nailed together on cheapo roller guides (they'll all go to Restore). I'm replacing all the drawers and going to undermount glides with soft-close.

There are many online suppliers of drawers, even custom order size drawers, with pricing that looks tempting per drawer. Found one that offers $54 per drawer regardless of size. That is, until it gets to shipping, $50 and more per order, some including "handling fees" added to the order. That was for two drawers, shipped ground UPS, no option for the USPS. So, time to create a drawer and cabinet schedule on a spreadsheet and shop the local cabinet makers to get quotes on them making the drawers. I just want decent, dovetail corner birch drawers with 1/4" plywood bottoms, ready for standard bottom slides. Nothing real fancy, but has to be a current standard. I'll get the doors and drawer fronts later.

Did find a neat corner cabinet option from KornerKing.com, for a combination lazy susan with pull out drawers. But the cabiner in my kitchen is oversize and the largest lazy susan model they have is a 31" diameter, where I can easily fit a 34" diameter lazy susan. Kornerking said they won't make a custom size, so I am making one myself, just ordered drawers on 27" slides for it.

 

[MushCreek]

I built the 33 drawers in our kitchen. I made them out of 3/4" cabinet grade plywood, butted and glued with Kreg screws. They are really stout, and I can't imagine them failing. I covered the exposed plywood edges with iron-on veneer. I used cheap side-mount slides. I'd like to eventually change them out with better self-closing ones. I've had a couple of them literally fall apart. The way I designed my cabinets, there is no room for bottom mount. I made my cabinets kind of like a tool chest, with everything side mounted, and no waste space between drawers. I got a lot more space, and there's nothing to catch when a wayward spatula tries to rise up and trap itself.

 

[LWB]

I built the 33 drawers in our kitchen. I made them out of 3/4" cabinet grade plywood, butted and glued with Kreg screws. They are really stout, and I can't imagine them failing. I covered the exposed plywood edges with iron-on veneer. I used cheap side-mount slides. I'd like to eventually change them out with better self-closing ones. I've had a couple of them literally fall apart. The way I designed my cabinets, there is no room for bottom mount. I made my cabinets kind of like a tool chest, with everything side mounted, and no waste space between drawers. I got a lot more space, and there's nothing to catch when a wayward spatula tries to rise up and trap itself.

Pics? I'd like to see these. There's so much wasted space with kitchen drawers and the wife won't go for tool boxes lol

 

[jar944]

Drawers are relatively quick and easy to make, assuming you have some equipment. I prefer 1/2" bottoms for any large drawers. Blum tandem (563) undermount slides are relatively forgiving and offer a lot of adjustability. Really though and of the name brand (hettich, salice, blum ot grass) will work well. Id avoid the off brand copies that started showing up. Not sure how the supply situation is now but there were some long lead times from drawer suppliers, lots of shops ended up being that production in house during covid to meet scheduled.

 

[andyvh1959]

Yup, Blum undermount slides, which mount under the outer edges of the drawers, so the outter width of the drawer is only 1/4" less than the opening in the framing. I also will be cutting out the cross rails to increase the available space for deeper drawers. And, I will cut the upright stiles back to increase the drawer width, getting close to a frameless style cabinet. Then using full overlay drawer fronts and doors to look clean and flush when closed. For instance, I have two drawers to the left of the stove, I'll remove the rail underneath them, cut out the stile between the drawers, and cut the side stiles back to 1" wide.

For instance, what was two 3" high 14" wide x 21" deep drawers, become one 5.5" deep, 31.00" wide x 22" deep drawer on Blum undermount slides. LOTS more space in the big single drawer: originally 560 sq in for the two drawers becomes 600 sq in for the single big drawer, all fitting into the same cabinet base. Only a seven % in drawer square inches, but do that in 11 drawers and it adds up to a happy wife.

I also will replace 70's vintage lower cabinet shelves and doors to large pullout drawers, no more kneeling on the floor to dig into the back of a base cabinet. Everything in the lower cabinets will be pullout drawers or pullout trays attached to door faces. Today we're at Menard's checking out kitchen options and my wife was checking out the garage lower and upper cabinets, saying "wouldn't these be nice in the attached garage?" God I love this woman. Same one, when I showed her pics on FB Marketplace of a local 56 Dodge C3 pickup, she said "go for it!" I did, its in storage now waiting on a future frame swap with my 2001 Dakota.

 

[jar944]

Yup, Blum undermount slides, which mount under the outer edges of the drawers, so the outter width of the drawer is only 1/4" less than the opening in the framing. I also will be cutting out the cross rails to increase the available space for deeper drawers. And, I will cut the upright stiles back to increase the drawer width, getting close to a frameless style cabinet. Then using full overlay drawer fronts and doors to look clean and flush when closed. For instance, I have two drawers to the left of the stove, I'll remove the rail underneath them, cut out the stile between the drawers, and cut the side stiles back to 1" wide.

For instance, what was two 3" high 14" wide x 21" deep drawers, become one 5.5" deep, 31.00" wide x 22" deep drawer on Blum undermount slides. LOTS more space in the big single drawer: originally 560 sq in for the two drawers becomes 600 sq in for the single big drawer, all fitting into the same cabinet base. Only a seven % in drawer square inches, but do that in 11 drawers and it adds up to a happy wife.

I also will replace 70's vintage lower cabinet shelves and doors to large pullout drawers, no more kneeling on the floor to dig into the back of a base cabinet. Everything in the lower cabinets will be pullout drawers or pullout trays attached to door faces. Today we're at Menard's checking out kitchen options and my wife was checking out the garage lower and upper cabinets, saying "wouldn't these be nice in the attached garage?" God I love this woman. Same one, when I showed her pics on FB Marketplace of a local 56 Dodge C3 pickup, she said "go for it!" I did, its in storage now waiting on a future frame swap with my 2001 Dakota.

Pay attention to the blum literature, the drawers need to be 21" exactly for a 21" slide. Also the width will be dependent on the thickness of the drawer side material. The slides refrence the inside drawer dimensions not the outside. You will also need to add blocking inside the cabinet assuming the sides are not flush to the face frame.

 

[acer66]

A bit rough around the edges build with 3/4” all the way with pocket screws and no glue.
Blum soft closing sliders.
I bought the ones for 1/2” sides so there was a bit more work involved but it works.
Faces are still in preproduction.

 

[rharman]

Rockler offers drawer material but you have to cut to length, dovetail (if needed), and assemble. 1/2" thick with a 1/4" routed groove for the bottom.
You might consider a drawer lock routered joint instead of dovetails.

edit: Just saw they are sourced from Russia so they're only selling their existing stock. No more imports.

 

[andyvh1959]

I scored a deal on ebay, seller has 21"Blum undermount soft close slides. Not new, but unsed, priced at $8.33 per set, AND, free shipping. I'm buying enough for 12 drawers and pullouts.

But if I make the drawers slightly deeper (frt to back), like, 22", maybe 23", the 21 Blum slides should work right? What matters if a bit of the drawer is slightly back in the cabinet? For sure don't use a 21" slide for a 18" drawer depth. But if the drawer is slightly deeper than the slide length it should not matter.

 

[jar944]

I scored a deal on ebay, seller has 21"Blum undermount soft close slides. Not new, but unsed, priced at $24 per set, less than half of new through many of the common online sellers. AND, free shipping. I'm buying enough for 14 drawers and pullouts.

But if I make the drawers slightly deeper (frt to back), like, 22", maybe 23", the 21 Blum slides should work right? What matters if a bit of the drawer is slightly back in the cabinet? For sure don't use a 21" slide for a 18" drawer depth. But if the drawer is slightly deeper than the slide length it should not matter.

No, on a under mount slide (all not just blum) they hook into the back of drawer, and the locking devices screw Into the back of the front face. Making them more than 21" (there is a little tolerance but it's minor) won't work unless you get really creative with the drawer construction and do a false mounting point on the front. Basically the box needs built to the dimensions listed on the sheet.

 

[andyvh1959]

Thanks. When I get the slides I'll better understand the mounting and limitations.

 

[jar944]

Thanks. When I get the slides I'll better understand the mounting and limitations.

What locking devices did you get?

 

[andyvh1959]

According to the Ebay seller: Blum

562H533-01A​

Looking at that part number on slides suppliers, looks like I need to order my locking devices. Any suggestions? Vertical? Narrow? Standard? I have not used Blum products in the past, all new to me.

 

[jar944]

According to the Ebay seller: Blum

562H533-01A​

Looking at that part number on slides suppliers, looks like I need to order my locking devices. Any suggestions? Vertical? Narrow? Standard? I have not used Blum products in the past, all new to me.

Oh man.. I see why they were cheap. The 562 slides were discontinued. The current locking devices are not compatible with the 562 series, just the newer 563/569 slides.



I think you are limited to the std

Blum T51170004R Right Hand Standard Front Locking Device, TANDEM

 

[andyvh1959]

That why this forum is so valuable, if for nothing else to help others know what they are getting into.
I plan to be out of this house in five years. So the older Blum slides are not a concern that way. The locking device is what holds the drawer to the slide correct? In this case I'd have only one locking device per drawer?

Would that mean the drawer could rack slightly at full extension? Any negatives to only one side lock device per drawer?

 

[jar944]

That why this forum is so valuable, if for nothing else to help others know what they are getting into.
I plan to be out of this house in five years. So the older Blum slides are not a concern that way. The locking device is what holds the drawer to the slide correct? In this case I'd have only one locking device per drawer?

Would that mean the drawer could rack slightly at full extension? Any negatives to only one side lock device per drawer?

You need 2 per drawer, a left and a right. They won't work with just one.

 

[Zeke]

I scored a deal on ebay, seller has 21"Blum undermount soft close slides. Not new, but unsed, priced at $8.33 per set, AND, free shipping. I'm buying enough for 12 drawers and pullouts.

But if I make the drawers slightly deeper (frt to back), like, 22", maybe 23", the 21 Blum slides should work right? What matters if a bit of the drawer is slightly back in the cabinet? For sure don't use a 21" slide for a 18" drawer depth. But if the drawer is slightly deeper than the slide length it should not matter.

Some slides are NOT full extension. You need to know. I make drawers as long as I can, usually 23" not including the mounted face.

 

[jar944]

Some slides are NOT full extension. You need to know. I make drawers as long as I can, usually 23" not including the mounted face.

Undermount and side mount slides are very different animals.

 

[2Busy]

Might want to check out Barker for all of what you’re looking for. I’ve had good luck with their service and quality. They sell pre-cut custom drawer kits that you assemble and glue and would also be a good option for you when you’re ready to replace cabinet doors and drawer faces. They sell all the good Blum hardware at prices as good as you’ll find. I just finished replacing every door and drawer face in the house except for the kitchen and they were great. They overlooked drilling hinge holes on one door and with one phone call they had a replacement built and shipped.

 

[andyvh1959]

Yup, Barker is one, the Cabinet Door Store is another, Fast Cabinet Doors also. From Barker I got a price of just over $1000 for six drawers of various sizes, which included $80 for shipping. That's for assembled drawers and slides. At Fast Cabinet Doors, if I opt to assemble the drawers myself, and without the slides, the same drawers come to $480. I can use the slides I got on Ebay.

 

[andyvh1959]

Moving ahead with my kitchen project. I got the cupboard lazy susan with the slide out spice racks, neat design to make accessing the upper corner cupboard much easier. I'm building a 34" diameter lazy susan for the base corner cabinet, it'll feature two 27" deep slide out center drawers and side trays on a heavy duty 12" bearing. I'm modifying the cabinet left of the sink to install a pull out rack for two 13 gallon trash/recycling bins.

I have all the base cabinet drawers figured out so I can order the drawer box kits. I am going for the full overlay look, no framing showing, I'll size the drawer fronts and doors to cover the framing. For the full overlay style I need to alter the framing because the old full frame style is all 2" wide rails and stiles. I am removing the rails entirely, planning for undermount drawer slides. Then I am cutting the stiles narrower so I can use Blum hinges for full overlay. I'll make a simple clamp on jig to guide my 5.5" 18V circular saw for the cuts, and finish the cuts with my sonic saw or jig saw to size the openings. I plan to use a high tooth count blade at just enough depth to cut through the framing (all white oak).

Has anyone else converted their old style full framed cabinets/cupboards to a frameless style? Any issues? Good with the results or would you not go frameless again?

 

[andyvh1959]

Moving ahead on my kitchen project. I bought 15 drawer sets from the Cabinet Door Store, got them assembled and installed on Blum slides. $1400 for 15 drawers to assemble. Nicely machined and easy to assemble. But the 2nd of two largest same size drawer was not machined properly/out of square, didn't assemble easily like the other 14. I contacted the seller and they sent me a free replacement drawer assembly. Got it in, works fine. I got the large lazy susan I built installed and working fine, it features two 27" long drawers on Blum slides and a bottom tray on slides, and three trays on each side of a center section. I cut back the 73 vintage full frames to remove the rails and cut back the stiles to maximize the drawer widths, all the stile are now 1" wide, Then ordered all the drawers 23" deep front to back to maximize the size. I used 22" Blum slides, which meant I had to make simple plastic keeper fingers to latch the drawers to the Blum slides. All the drawers work great.

So now I'm ready to get a quote for the drawer fronts and doors, and may go with the Cabinet Door Store again. Got a quote from the local Menards for Cardell Medallion series, prefinished, predrilled, $4841. I may also get a quote from a local millworks. I plan for a bit more detail than a plain Quaker, paint grade maple, prefinished, predrilled for 1-1/4" overlay. I have 15 drawer faces, 15 doors (three without hinges), and one set of double hinged doors for the corner lazy susan cabinet. Perhaps $4841 for the Menards quote is reasonable. Anyone else got input on costs for a similar group of drawer fronts/doors?

 

[jar944]

Moving ahead on my kitchen project. I bought 15 drawer sets from the Cabinet Door Store, got them assembled and installed on Blum slides. $1400 for 15 drawers to assemble. Nicely machined and easy to assemble. But the 2nd of two largest same size drawer was not machined properly/out of square, didn't assemble easily like the other 14. I contacted the seller and they sent me a free replacement drawer assembly. Got it in, works fine. I got the large lazy susan I built installed and working fine, it features two 27" long drawers on Blum slides and a bottom tray on slides, and three trays on each side of a center section. I cut back the 73 vintage full frames to remove the rails and cut back the stiles to maximize the drawer widths, all the stile are now 1" wide, Then ordered all the drawers 23" deep front to back to maximize the size. I used 22" Blum slides, which meant I had to make simple plastic keeper fingers to latch the drawers to the Blum slides. All the drawers work great.

So now I'm ready to get a quote for the drawer fronts and doors, and may go with the Cabinet Door Store again. Got a quote from the local Menards for Cardell Medallion series, prefinished, predrilled, $4841. I may also get a quote from a local millworks. I plan for a bit more detail than a plain Quaker, paint grade maple, prefinished, predrilled for 1-1/4" overlay. I have 15 drawer faces, 15 doors (three without hinges), and one set of double hinged doors for the corner lazy susan cabinet. Perhaps $4841 for the Menards quote is reasonable. Anyone else got input on costs for a similar group of drawer fronts/doors?

What are the specific sizes? A 12x12" door is usually significantly different price wise than a 18x48" door.

That doesn't sound horrible for prefinished though.

 

[andyvh1959]

When I first saw the quote from Menards I was put off. But then as I dug into it and considered the work that goes into making a paneled door, pre-drilled for concealed hinges, prefinished, the cost doesn't look that bad.

Here is a portion of the quote from Menards. This is based on a stained/clear-coat finish. We'll likely go with a solid color stain which may decrease the cost slightly.


This quote is based on custom sized drawer fronts and doors, sized to within a 1/16". If I researched what I can find in "standardized" sizes I may at most save $500, but not get the look I'm after, which is full overlay with 1/8" gaps. I had a local remodel company rep at the house back in March, he said for what I'm planning for the kitchen he'd be quoting in the $35000 range (yikes!). So far, doing the work myself, if I spend about $5000 for the drawer fronts and doors, I'm into the project at $8000 already. Still planning $400 for an apron undermount sink. I'll spend about $200 in materials to build the pantry. Estimate $1800 for countertops and backsplashes. So I'll be over $10,000 in no time, and eventually the kitchen floor gets redone when we take the carpeting out of the dining room attached to the kitchen.

Not sure the old standard still applies, that a contractor charges double the material costs to do a job. Considering I'm into the project for over $10K, being my own contractor, $20K at minimum is easy to exceed for a complete project. The overall dimensions of the kitchen is 10x18, so it is a bit bigger.

 

[andyvh1959]

Just reviving an old post. I am close to finishing my kitchen remodel (yeah, I know, this long?). Some things I learned:
1. Yes you can use 22" Blum slides on over-deep drawers. I oversized all the drawers for extra storage, they are all 22" deep inside, which means the drawer without the drawer front measures 23.5". Takes a bit extra work to locate the Blum latches. Everything works as planned and my wife loves the increased storage.
2. The Cabinet Door Store, an online supplier for the drawer boxes, drawer front and door was a good choice and much less than Menards. All the drawer boxes, fronts and doors were made to my specs, planning around 1/16" increments and everything fit, good quality. Everything shipped to my house in solid safe packaging. In fact I reused the lumber they made the crate from. Shipped free.

The drawer boxes were assembled by me. All dovetails fit easily together. One drawer was machined incorrectly and the company sent me a replacement, no issues. My total for 17 drawer boxes in poplar was $1400. The total for 32 total of drawer fronts and doors, prefinished in light gray, built from Maple was $2100. Just have to install the flooring and finish the pantry door (make the trim to match the cabinets).

I buit out the cabinet over the fridge, two pullout drawers 28" deep. I built the pantry in an area that used to be just countertop open to the main walkway. The door is a repurposed $5 buy at Restore, so I built shelves into the other side of the door which hold over 30 cans of products. I hired out the granite countertops, but other wise have done all the work myself including building the custom big lazy susan, apron sink/plumbing, electrical updates, etc. Still, into this remodel for over $10,000. But, if I had hired it all out I'd be well over $35,000. I repainted the KitchenAid dishwasher panel and door (Toyota color real close to the fridge and oven) and installed the black control face).

 

[DGersic]

Just reviving an old post. I am close to finishing my kitchen remodel (yeah, I know, this long?).

Nice. I just wrapped up what was supposed to be a couple of weeks to re-do the cabinets and drawers in my entry foyer. Changed from inset to half overlay. Built everything myself,n with a lot of measuring and one set of mistakes on the drawers that meant making them twice.

The undermount Blum slides are nice, but fiddly to retrofit. To be fair to Blum, they say right on them that they’re not for retrofit applications.

 

[MushCreek]

Nice work indeed! I just finished up a new custom vanity for our master bath. The old one was a freebie fake marble top on top of an antique dresser, but it never worked well. The new one will have nice drawer slides and tons of storage.

 

[andyvh1959]

Thanks for the comments. All the cabinets and cupboards are original to the house, built in 1973. All the stiles were the old 2" wide, as were the rails. I cut out all the rails, and cut the stiles back to 1.25" wide, to increase the access to the openings and increase the drawer sizes. Was a challenge to cut the stiles back and make it all straight/parallel. Fortunately, the 5/8" overlay doors with Blum hinges covered all that, makes for a nice cleaner look without those wide gaps between all the doors and drawer fronts. Everything is a pull out now, no need to kneel on the floor and reach into the cabinets.

 

[andyvh1959]

For what its worth, here are some views of the old cabinets and cupboards before I got further ahead into the project. The old doors were lumber core oak faced that I updated back in 2003 when everything was dark stained. The backsplash was facing brick, tile countertops I did back then. The open area that I now turned into the pantry. All the old doors had the face frame hinges exposed, big door gaps, below you get an idea of how I cut back the stiles and removed the rails to increase the drawer sizes. I could have just demoed the whole thing out and installed new cabinets and cupboards but that would have been another $6000+ into the project.

In the upper corner above the lazy susan I built that cabinet out to frame it for the upper lazy susan I bought from Korner King. The lower lazy susan I built myself, 36" diameter with three 28" deep center pullouts.

 

[Improved700]

Nice work Andy !