Cable pulling question

[LJB55]

I am in the process of getting things ready for my electrical hookup to my detached garage. From what I read here I chose MHF 2-2-2-4 RHH/RHW-2 aluminum cable. It will be in 1 1/2" schedule 40 the entire distance from my main panel in the basement then underground to the garage. I never tried to pull a cable this big before so not sure what to expect. I am going to try to pull it about 60' from a LB on the back of the house to the main panel. This run has 2 90 degree sweeps and 1 45 degree sweep. From the same LB I will pull it to the garage. This run is about 80' and has 2 90 degree sweeps and 2 45 degree sweeps. I was able to find the flat pull rope at a garage sale. I was thinking of getting the klein cable lube but not sure if the wax or foam is better. Does anyone see a problem or have any advice to make it easier? I already prepared the main panel but have not run the conduit yet. I also still need to dig the trench.

Thanks,
Len

 

[mike93lx]

Get a friend to help push while you pull.

Use a plastic bag on a lightweight string with a shop vac to get the string through then pull the flat rope, then the wire.

After attaching the pull rope to the wire, try like hell to pull it off before putting it in the conduit. If it isn't on solid it will pop off.

Pull in the direction the male ends of the pipe are pointing to reduce the risk of snagging

 

[LJB55]

Thanks for the reply Mike. Good advice about pulling in the direction the male ends are pointing. I will make sure and install the conduit so most of the male ends are pointing away from the LB.

Thanks,
Len

 

[sparky 1971]

Use the wax cable lube. It makes a mess and is harder to clean up, but it's a lot slicker. I have never used Klein lube so I know nothing about it. Ideal Yellow 77 is my go to.

 

[larry4406]

I used the Klein foam spray lube recently and it worked well pulling (4) XHHW thru 2” conduit.

 

[Bert_]

No lube at those distances. Sounds like it's a little late but I'd avoid the MHF and get the much easier to pull xhhw individual conductors.

Make sure you pull through the lb the right way. That means you do the conduit in the back of the lb last.

The wire pull should be easy as cake. I just pulled four 1/0 and a #4 xhhw through 1 1/2 PVC this morning. About 160 ft run with one 90*. Pulled by hand went good

 

[checkthisout]

Make sure and get the LONG sweep 90's

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

If you can get a product called Polywater Cable lubricant which is excellent. HD sells Klein cable pulling lubricant which I have been using as it is easy to access. Yellow 77 will have a tendency to dry out and make the cables stick to the inside of the conduit. Especially if the conduit is metal. Mind you this isn’t a problem if you never have to reuse the conduit. The Yellow 77 is kind to your hands as it is mostly made of Lanolin. The Polywater and Klein dry out eventually. And don’t be cheap with the lubricant it isn’t worth the saving. You could prelude by running some lube before the pull and use again with the pull.

 

[HenryAZ]

Get a friend to help push while you pull.

IMO and experience, the pusher is much more important than the puller, for a successful, kink-free run.

 

[LJB55]

Thanks for the advice. Bert, I see what you mean about pulling the back of the LB last as the wire coming out would be in your way when pushing in the other. I have yellow 77 and will use it generously. I will pre-lube it to. Anybody have any tips on attaching the flat pull rope the the cable?

 

[MFolks]

I would secure the cable in many places about 2 foot long,get some of the 70 pound white or black lacing twine used for aircraft wire bundles,it will lay flat, not like ty wraps will,for less drag friction.

 

[MFolks]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005PQRLYC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[MFolks]

Get a rag,tied to a string,blow it through the conduit,tie the rope to the string with the cable secured to the rope,taper the pulling ends with tape and plenty of lube.

 

[LJB55]

Get a rag,tied to a string,blow it through the conduit,tie the rope to the string with the cable secured to the rope,taper the pulling ends with tape and plenty of lube.

Thanks for the tip, I used to work on F4's and A7's in the USAF and know what you are referring to. Your name seems familiar, did you ever post on the kzrider website? I haven't been there in a while.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I would secure the cable in many places about 2 foot long,get some of the 70 pound white or black lacing twine used for aircraft wire bundles,it will lay flat, not like ty wraps will,for less drag friction.

Believe it or not, this make the wire harder to pull, as does taping the wires together.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Just feed the cables straight, no twisting of one over the other.

 

[Kaizen]

.



Make sure you pull through the lb the right way. That means you do the conduit in the back of the lb

I have two lb’s and was planning on pulling into the cellar one which then goes down to conduit into the panel. Figured it would be easier then trying to work around panel with roll of wire. This is wrong?



Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[LJB55]

Just feed the cables straight, no twisting of one over the other.

Mobile Home Feeder is a quad cable so no worry about twisting individual cables but harder to pull thru the sweeps. Is your avatar a GTO or LeMans? Looks nice.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Mobile Home Feeder is a quad cable so no worry about twisting individual cables but harder to pull thru the sweeps. Is your avatar a GTO or LeMans? Looks nice.

Bonneville Didn't know about the quad cable, but agree NOT lacing up individual cables.

 

[Falcon67]

We pulled MHF 33' from house to shop through 1 1/2" with two 90 sweeps. Needed lube and wife as a pusher while I pulled. Messy but went well.

 

[rlitman]

... I will make sure and install the conduit so most of the male ends are pointing away from the LB...

Not most. All it takes is one sharp edge in the right spot to make your day miserable.

If your conduit is backwards, or you're using a sweep that's not belled, then chamfer the inside. There are drill mounted tools that look like huge countersinks to do this. I've used burrs in a die grinder.

 

[Bert_]

We pulled MHF 33' from house to shop through 1 1/2" with two 90 sweeps. Needed lube and wife as a pusher while I pulled. Messy but went well.

This says a lot about how much worse MHF is to pull in conduit vs xhhw or thhn.

Xhhw would have went through 5X that length without lube.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Just feed the cables straight, no twisting of one over the other.

MHF is 4 wires twisted together already

 

[bad_idea]

Isn't MHF rated for direct burial? Why put it in a conduit? I am in process of pulling in the electrical for my 30x40 and am still waffling on conduit or not. Is it 'belt and suspenders' answer or am I missing something?

 

[LJB55]

Isn't MHF rated for direct burial? Why put it in a conduit? I am in process of pulling in the electrical for my 30x40 and am still waffling on conduit or not. Is it 'belt and suspenders' answer or am I missing something?

Yes it can be direct buried but from what I have read it needs to be in conduit inside a structure because of the insulation used. Yes "belt and suspenders" I wanted to just run it the whole way in conduit for some protection.

 

[b-boy]

Needed lube and wife as a pusher while I pulled. Messy but went well.

Hmmm

 

[mike93lx]

Yes it can be direct buried but from what I have read it needs to be in conduit inside a structure because of the insulation used. Yes "belt and suspenders" I wanted to just run it the whole way in conduit for some protection.

It isn't the insulation. The issue is that it doesn't have an outer jacket

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Isn't MHF rated for direct burial? Why put it in a conduit? I am in process of pulling in the electrical for my 30x40 and am still waffling on conduit or not. Is it 'belt and suspenders' answer or am I missing something?

Conduit is cheap insurance for rocks and other debris that might nic the insulation underground.

 

[rburke65]

And for the difference in cost, buy the 2” pvc conduit. You wont ever say, “ damn, I should have bought the smaller pipe”!

 

[bad_idea]

Conduit is cheap insurance for rocks and other debris that might nic the insulation underground.

Gotcha. I am in a sandy area. My yard is a couple feet of sand then clay, then more sand. The county imports rock for road base, no quarry within 50 miles.

Sorry for the tangent, please carry on.

 

[checkthisout]

Isn't MHF rated for direct burial? Why put it in a conduit? I am in process of pulling in the electrical for my 30x40 and am still waffling on conduit or not. Is it 'belt and suspenders' answer or am I missing something?

Our power company requires service entrance cable be in conduit.

It's also just easier. Less steps to have to do at once while you have digging equipment around, possibly on rental.

You can dig and set conduit and be done with your trench work without also having to worry about having all of the correct wiring around ready to put in the trench.

 

[penright]

We used THHN for our power to a detached shop so conduit was not an option. The OP said 80'. Not knowing for sure all the bends, I am guessing about 100$ to 150$ in conduit. It seems cheap insurance.

What I wanted to add to the discussion is a low voltage conduit. Another thing we did was while the trench was open we added a low voltage conduit. If you ever want to tie into your home alarm or run an internet connection or both, you will love it. WIFI may be an option, but will be better off hardwire the IP and adding an access point in the shop. Now I knew I wanted an IP connection for streaming to a TV, googling, and electronic projects. So for me, it was a no brainer.

 

[penright]

Use a plastic bag on a lightweight string with a shop vac to get the string through then pull the flat rope, then the wire.

Yes. Works like a champ. The trick is sizing it to get a seal but not too tight to create undo friction. I saved the pull string and bag setup from when the electrician did it for the main power. I tried to use the same setup when I was pulling the low voltage. Messed with it for hours, then "trimmed" the bag and kind of made it into a ball. Once I did that, I could not feed the string fast enough to keep up. Again, it worked really well.

Here is what I am talking about.

 

[LJB55]

Ok, I finally dug the trench and buried the conduit. I am not sure of the best way to attach the pulling line. I have bull-line pull tape that I got at a moving sale. It is a pre-lubricated flat rope about 7/16" wide rated at 1500 lbs. I bought a pulling grip for 3/4" to 1" cable but am not sure if that is the best way to go since mhf is 4 wires twisted together. I was thinking it might be easier to go thru the sweeps if I staggered the cuts on the 3 #2's and attached the pulling tape to the #4 wire. Looking for some advice on the best way to do this from some of the experts here. I already have the pull tape in the conduit.

 

[Jim greengo]

So what's the story on the ltd?

 

[bad_idea]

I just pulled mine through last week. I cut the cables staggered at 6". Tied a half hitch about 18" down the cables (all four bundled together), another half hitch at 10", and another at 2" from the end. Then wrapped that hole mess in electrical tape while pulling tension on the pull tape. My pull was about 40' through 1 1/2" conduit with two 90s and three 45s. I lubed the cable up and shoved it in the conduit while the wife pulled. Was effortless. I initially tried to jam it in dry but the cable bound up about 10' in. Went and got some lube and it slid right in.

 

[checkthisout]

I lubed the cable up and shoved it in the conduit while the wife pulled. Was effortless. I initially tried to jam it in dry but the cable bound up about 10' in. Went and got some lube and it slid right in.

Interesting. That is the same solution but to a different problem my old lady and I had.

 

[LJB55]

So what's the story on the ltd?

I bought it new in 77 while stationed at Alamagordo, New Mexico. Rode it everywhere till I had kids. Took it apart and stashed it under the basement stairs because I couldn't bring myself to sell it and it stayed there for years. Put it back together and rode for a while but it was going through a lot of oil so completely disassembled and restored it in 05 with a Wiseco 1075 kit and Dyna ignition. Has original paint and still runs great.

 

[LJB55]

I just pulled mine through last week. I cut the cables staggered at 6". Tied a half hitch about 18" down the cables (all four bundled together), another half hitch at 10", and another at 2" from the end. Then wrapped that hole mess in electrical tape while pulling tension on the pull tape. My pull was about 40' through 1 1/2" conduit with two 90s and three 45s. I lubed the cable up and shoved it in the conduit while the wife pulled. Was effortless. I initially tried to jam it in dry but the cable bound up about 10' in. Went and got some lube and it slid right in.

Thanks, that is encouraging to hear. My underground pull from the lb is 80' but has 1 less 45 than yours. Not sure if my wife is as strong as yours bit I will give it a try

 

[LJB55]

Well I got it done. I lubed and pushed the cable while my wife pulled. We used our phones to stay in sync. The pull tape I used has the number of feet used and the run from the house to garage turned out to be 92' which was 10' longer than I thought but luckily I still had enough wire. The pull to the garage went a lot easier than I thought. I used Ideal yellow 77 lube. The hardest part was unrolling the rest of the spool to get at the other end wire to shove into the house and pull to the main panel. It pulled pretty easy to but had to persuade the last few inches into the lb. Thanks to everyone who replied with tips and suggestions, they kept me from making some mistakes. Here are a few pics...