cable stuck in burried conduit

[kaffine]

I am trying to replace some wire in buried conduit but it wont budge. The conduit is 1" RMC and is full of water. The cable is 18 awg 2 conductor tray cable.

I have tried to run a fish tape through the conduit I can get about 70 feet from either end before the tape stops.

I am not sure how long the conduit run is I know it is over 120 feet but not sure how much over. I figure there are at least 270 degrees of bends could be more. Not sure on how it is routed underground I know they didn't run it the way I would and it isn't run the way the plans show either. The conduit has been in place for around 20 years not sure if the cable has ever been replaced or not.

I have seen Polywater has a lube that is supposed to help loosen stuck cables? Has anyone tried it and does it work? I could fill the conduit up with the lube then use a fish tape to try and spread it through the conduit more.

Any ideas on how to get the cable out? I have thought about getting a sewer jetter and trying it to clean the conduit out.

Also any suggestions on how to clean the conduit after I get the old cable out and before I pull new cable in?

Thank you.

 

[Aceman]

I would use a locator and paint some marks on the ground where the conduit is located. Then I would go to the half way point, dig the conduit up and cut it. At this point, I'd try and see if the tray cable would come out of each half.

If the conduit is rusty, it would be better to just replace it or abandon it.

 

[Rookie2]

Pull till you break the wire off or it gives (rust,roots,or welded) , then rent a trencher and burry a new conduit. $200.00 and your done.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

are both ends sealed or out of reach of dirt?

If not, dirt couldve been pushed into the conduit by the water.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Rent a cable puller and pull in till it either breaks or comes loose.

 

[FullRaceMerc]

Have you tried hooking a vacuum up to the conduit to see if it draws thru the conduit? It takes a little creative tape work with the wires still in place. But sometimes a vacuum combined with working a fish tape or wires back & forth can clear small debris.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

If its actual rigid steel conduit Id just start digging a new trench and put pvc back in there and pull new wire.
If the steel pipe is full of water theres a reason.

 

[DBendr]

I'd cut one end and braze up a washer and 1/4 air fitting to it. Then I'd hit it with 145 psi out of my compressor and see what pops loose.Wear a helmet

 

[Denwad]

If its actual rigid steel conduit Id just start digging a new trench and put pvc back in there and pull new wire.
If the steel pipe is full of water theres a reason.

I thought underground conduit was always wet? Like no matter what

 

[CNGsaves]

What is REAL need for power at end of that 120 ft run of 1" buried conduit ??

You say it's 18 gauge 2 conductor . . . . WHAT is that for ??

Sparkies will give you specifics IF you provide all the information on what power loads are at end of that 120 ft and what power available at source.

If it were me, I'd blast it out with air pressure first, then water pressure, then more air pressure, and finally dig at blockage. However, only useful thing for 1" conduit that long is low power wiring like CATV, internet, phone, security, etc. Thus, re-purpose that 1" for low voltage.

For electric load, I'd carefully dig NEW trench after you locate and mark the old one and ANY other buried utilities on property. 2" plastic conduit and long 90 degree sweeps would be my recommendation for NEW buried power in trench according to depth required by AHJ.

 

[Mr_fixit]

That sounds like a conduit that won't be good for anything but wasting your time. too long, too small, too old. Could be rusted in half or at every joint. Pull till it gives or breaks. 18 gauge will likely break way before it frees up. I don't see it being usable, ever again.

I don't know of anything that would free up a stuck cable, except pulling the f out of it.

My suggestion would be to start new and run PVC, twice as large as you think you need.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

That sounds like a conduit that won't be good for anything but wasting your time. too long, too small, too old. Could be rusted in half or at every joint. Pull till it gives or breaks. 18 gauge will likely break way before it frees up. I don't see it being usable, ever again.

I don't know of anything that would free up a stuck cable, except pulling the f out of it.

My suggestion would be to start new and run PVC, twice as large as you think you need.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I thought underground conduit was always wet? Like no matter what

Burying a piece of steel conduit in the ground is basically like setting the clock on a timebomb from the time it goes in the ground,Unless its buried under a concrete slab and is never exposed to any kind of ground water/moisture.
Pvc on the other hand doesnt rust,and as long as it was put together right and the ends are sealed up it will stay 99.9% dry.

 

[Denwad]

Burying a piece of steel conduit in the ground is basically like setting the clock on a timebomb from the time it goes in the ground,Unless its buried under a concrete slab and is never exposed to any kind of ground water/moisture.
Pvc on the other hand doesnt rust,and as long as it was put together right and the ends are sealed up it will stay 99.9% dry.

I've read multiple times that no matter what you do, water will get in.

And i've read that code lists buried conduit as a wet location

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I've read multiple times that no matter what you do, water will get in.

And i've read that code lists buried conduit as a wet location

As long as the fittings are primed/glued you wont get any moisture in that way,as long as the ends are sealed theres not much else you can do.
Steel pipe on the other hand will rust period.
You can put a plastic sewer line in and it wont leak for 50 plus years if installed right,no differance with the pvc conduit keeping ground water out.

 

[kaffine]

Thanks for the replies.

There is a requirement for RMC can't replace with PVC. Due to where the conduit is installed replacement is not easy and will be very expensive.

Cable is low voltage.

 

[walrus]

Burying a piece of steel conduit in the ground is basically like setting the clock on a timebomb from the time it goes in the ground,Unless its buried under a concrete slab and is never exposed to any kind of ground water/moisture.
Pvc on the other hand doesnt rust,and as long as it was put together right and the ends are sealed up it will stay 99.9% dry.

Rigid metallic conduit is used in tons of places, it works fine and is not a ticking time bomb. I've pulled into steel conduit 30 or 40 years old with no issues.

 

[nadogail]

Good Luck, I like the idea of filling the conduit with a lube (vegetable oil is biodegradable) and pressurizing it with air.

I have installed surveillance and entry control systems where threaded rigid conduit was specified.

 

[InTgr8r]

That sounds like a conduit that won't be good for anything but wasting your time. too long, too small, too old. Could be rusted in half or at every joint. Pull till it gives or breaks. 18 gauge will likely break way before it frees up. I don't see it being usable, ever again.

I don't know of anything that would free up a stuck cable, except pulling the f out of it.

My suggestion would be to start new and run PVC, twice as large as you think you need.

^ Exactly.
I haven't worked at the trade for a number of years now, but after 20 years in the ground I can say absolutely that run is done!

Time to start over.
What is the cct. for?

If it was #18 it must have been some sort of LV circuit.
#18 isn't to code for a 110v cct.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

If its actual rigid steel conduit Id just start digging a new trench and put pvc back in there and pull new wire.
If the steel pipe is full of water theres a reason.

That sounds like a conduit that won't be good for anything but wasting your time. too long, too small, too old. Could be rusted in half or at every joint. Pull till it gives or breaks. 18 gauge will likely break way before it frees up. I don't see it being usable, ever again.

I don't know of anything that would free up a stuck cable, except pulling the f out of it.

My suggestion would be to start new and run PVC, twice as large as you think you need.

WINNAH!

Tommy

 

[thewatusi]

Burying a piece of steel conduit in the ground is basically like setting the clock on a timebomb from the time it goes in the ground,Unless its buried under a concrete slab and is never exposed to any kind of ground water/moisture.
Pvc on the other hand doesnt rust,and as long as it was put together right and the ends are sealed up it will stay 99.9% dry.

It's not ground water, it's condensation from the air inside the pipe. A properly glued pvc conduit buired underground will still fill with water over time. As such, it's listed as a wet location.

 

[Slowgsr]

I'd say underground conduit has a life span of 15-30 years. If it won't pull its typically at the end of its life. I see this often with outdoor parking lot poles.

Anything in the ground is considered a wet location. Even in a slab. So always assume the conduit will get water in it. Dirt/rocks often get introduced during (poor) installation.

 

[ishiboo]

Henderson does not get a whole lot of rain. It's probably for a sprinkler solenoid or gate signal or something, who cares?

I would also try a cable puller or come-along. The sad fact is 18ga is probably stranded and doesn't have nearly the tensile strength of #14, and it's probably going to break and have to be redug.

You can use a gas edger or just about anything to make a groove big enough for 18ga low voltage, offering minimal disruption... assuming this isn't under a bunch of concrete or anything.

 

[Scalemaster]

That's a small cable in a good size conduit. it should pull fairly easy even with 3 bends. It acts like the conduit it pulled apart underground. My opinion.

 

[alfredeneuman]

it's not ground water, it's condensation from the air inside the pipe. A properly glued pvc conduit buired underground will still fill with water over time. As such, it's listed as a wet location.

a winner!

 

[rockwithjason]

mix polywater j 4 parts water to 1 part soap. pour in the pipe. follow with a garden hose and fill the pipe. let sit for a few days. give it tugs to try to get it to move, pull and rest technique. if that doesn't work then brute force pull until it moves or breaks. if they didn't wrap the pipe with 10 mil it's probably thrashed. the alkali soil here will eat steel in a matter of months.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Rigid metallic conduit is used in tons of places, it works fine and is not a ticking time bomb. I've pulled into steel conduit 30 or 40 years old with no issues.

And where was it buried at? Like I said,if its under a slab and not exposed to moisture/ground water it can be there a long time.
If its buried under somebodies yard in the midwest where we get lots of ground water/mud from rain/snow for a good chunk of the year it doesnt hold up so good.
Ive dug up and replaced enough rigid conduit and rigid steel water lines and gas service lines around here over the years that look like swiss cheese to know.
Theres a reason the underground work for gas stations have been done in pvc around here for years,then converted to rigid above ground for physical protection.
We have plenty of old lead water service lines that are pushing 100 years old around here that are still in service,Maybe somebody should create heavy walled lead conduit for underground work.
Wheres Jack benfield when we need him? Somebody should go dig him up.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

It's not ground water, it's condensation from the air inside the pipe. A properly glued pvc conduit buired underground will still fill with water over time. As such, it's listed as a wet location.

Like I said "compared to a piece of rigid pipe that rusts from the outside and will fill full of water over time,the pvc will remain 99 plus percent dry"

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

a winner!

How long have you guys been digging laying pipe in the midwest?
Bury a piece of rigid pipe in the mud with both ends capped ,then bury a piece of pvc same size/length with capped ends 2' away in the same mud hole and leave them sit for 10 years.
Then come back and dig them up and tell me which one held up better after 10 years of mud/snow/ground water pouring down around them.
(legal disclaimer)If youre living in a place like the mojave desert where it never rains/snows disregard all of this!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

mix polywater j 4 parts water to 1 part soap. pour in the pipe. follow with a garden hose and fill the pipe. let sit for a few days. give it tugs to try to get it to move, pull and rest technique. if that doesn't work then brute force pull until it moves or breaks. if they didn't wrap the pipe with 10 mil it's probably thrashed. the alkali soil here will eat steel in a matter of months.

Dont tell them that,Their heads will explode!

 

[alfredeneuman]

How long have you guys been digging laying pipe in the midwest?
If youre living in a place like the mojave desert where it never rains/snows disregard all of this!

Fortunately I personally had never had the displeasure of running underground in the Midwest, only in SoCa.
BTW, The OP lives in Henderson NV., in the Mojave Desert, so I guess we may disregard all of this!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Fortunately I personally had never had the displeasure of running underground in the Midwest, only in SoCa.
BTW, The OP lives in Henderson NV., in the Mojave Desert, so I guess we may disregard all of this!

 

[kaffine]

I'll let you know if I ever get the cable out. The conduit is work related so it will be some time to get the paperwork done before they decide if I am to attempt to pull the cable or if we outsource it.

The ends were sealed with putty. 1 end was just above ground level the other end was in an underground vault that fills with water during floods not often but happens every few years. Due to where it is if it has to be replaced it will likely exceed $100k. Other conduits in the area have been able to be pulled just not as long of a run and a most of them were difficult to get the old cable out. The new cables went in without issues and I even managed to forget the cable lube last time.

 

[Rookie2]

DAHHHH. why not say that at the start ?

Get a plumbing company to run a electric eel thru it with an agressive head on it and clean it out. There are companies out there that reline pipe with plactic that is steamed in place (gas lines etc.) or pull a piece of pex thru it.

 

[kaffine]

DAHHHH. why not say that at the start ?

Get a plumbing company to run a electric eel thru it with an agressive head on it and clean it out. There are companies out there that reline pipe with plactic that is steamed in place (gas lines etc.) or pull a piece of pex thru it.

I started out asking how to get the cable out of the conduit. Why not answer the question that was asked instead of telling me to just replace the conduit until after I say why replacing the conduit is not a valid option?

Do you think a plumbing company would be willing to snake out a 1" conduit with a cable already in it? I had thought of a jetter but would not have thought of an actual snake.

I had to check they do make inner-duct small enough to fit 1" conduit. However the size that I can find takes up too much room in the conduit and would not be large enough to pull the new cable in. It would have been nice had they used inner-duct in the larger conduits in the area ***** having to pull 1 cable out when there are 10 others that are in the pipe.

 

[Mr_fixit]

Everyone here is trying to help, (until your attitude)
Another solution to a question you didn't ask, Find yourself a 1/4 or 5/16 or 3/8" fiberglass fish and ram the hell out of it, the conduit, with the wire in it. If you can't get it one way , try it from the other side. Right now you have nothing to lose. With the right fish, (and the right experience), you should be able to fish it anyway, unless it's separated. And if it's rigid conduit, it should be screwed together, and not separated.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I'd cut one end and braze up a washer and 1/4 air fitting to it. Then I'd hit it with 145 psi out of my compressor and see what pops loose.Wear a helmet

eye protection, keep the children in the house, and have someone hold your beer while they watch you.

Due to where it is if it has to be replaced it will likely exceed $100k.

That sheds a whole new light on the problem. I'm reading the post and reading the recommended solutions thinking "why doesn't he just abandon the existing conduct and put in all new?????"

Now I'm really going to be interested in what actually works since starting over will be the last resort.

 

[CNGsaves]

No 120 ft buried 1" conduit replacement should cost $100,000 . . .

A guy could buy used Ditch Witch or Vermeer boring machine and make money on that job for much less. So, company with equipment already in use it's just another job.

If you decide you want it redone for $100,000 . . . give first dibbs to GJer's as I'd be happy to drive down to help another GJer and get little dirty for that kind of profit !!!

However, IF it's solid rock . . . . then whole different story !!

 

[Pwrgeek]

I've seen a few 120' conduit runs that would be upward of $100k to redo. They were in industrial plants where we would have to shut a large part of the plant down while digging due to proximity to pipes that had some really nasty stuff in them while the plant was running. Needless to say we put in a duct bank with lots of spares in these locations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rookie2]

So ! Let me tell you what will happen. The project engineer will look you in the eye and say " I Got This" .