California LED fixture requirements in code?

[Vintage Veloce]

I just had a contractor tell me he thinks they are required to use LED plug in type fixtures and they probably cannot install standard screw in type recessed can lights in my garage ceiling. He said something about the green energy code not wanting it to be possible to install regular bulbs...
Does anyone know if this is true? In a separate building that is only a shed/garage? If not, where would I find the relevant code to show them?
Carl

 

[cybrdyke]

Walk into or call any local electrical supply store and ask them if they still carry them. That will answer your question.
CD

 

[Stuart in MN]

It's probably somewhere in the California Energy Efficiency Standards: http://www.energy.ca.gov/title24/2013standards/

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Hmm... I see a thing called "Title 24"
Apparently, High-efficacy luminaires are required in garages, laundry
rooms and utility rooms, and these must be controlled by a vacancy sensor.
And standard screw in bulbs are ruled out. "Any luminaire that contains a socket that can be fitted with an incandescent lamp is classified as low efficacy, even if a compact fluorescent or LED lamp is installed into
that socket."
So it looks like I am compelled to put relatively expensive fixtures in the ceiling instead of the standard recessed can lights I preferred. Hmm.
C

 

[bdamico]

Or you could move to America

 

[Zeke]

This says it all:

"F. Any luminaire that contains a socket that can be fitted with an incandescent lamp is
classified as low efficacy, even if a compact fluorescent or LED lamp is installed into
that socket."

The rest is in the above link.

 

[Syberia]

Just another way to get us to spend more money on things that are utterly useless. They subsidize LEDs and sell them for $1 each at the dollar store, then go and mandate fixtures that they don't work in because the base is different. All in the name of getting people to use less electricity and save money.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Hmm... I see a thing called "Title 24"
Apparently, High-efficacy luminaires are required in garages, laundry
rooms and utility rooms, and these must be controlled by a vacancy sensor.
And standard screw in bulbs are ruled out. "Any luminaire that contains a socket that can be fitted with an incandescent lamp is classified as low efficacy, even if a compact fluorescent or LED lamp is installed into
that socket."
So it looks like I am compelled to put relatively expensive fixtures in the ceiling instead of the standard recessed can lights I preferred. Hmm.
C

Title 25?? Any car that can exceed the posted speed limit on the California Interstates shall not be sold in California.....

Title 26?? Any beer that can result in a beer fart shall not be sold in California..

Title 27 has something to do with recycled toilet paper.

Things are goofy enough in Minnesota... Our State Bird is the Loon.
I understand the California State Bird is a middle finger... very appropriate..

California?? is it even legal to live there......

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Looks like I need this:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Halo-6-i...allow-IC-Air-Tite-Housing-H2750ICAT/204716301
Sadly, the darn bulbs and trim are expensive.

 

[Vintage Veloce]

Title 26?? Any beer that can result in a beer fart shall not be sold in California..

Apparently, I am breaking the law.

 

[1953mercury]

Apparently, I am breaking the law.

Feels good, eh. Mike

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Those look to be a good solution for your location.. Before buying a bunch of bulbs; I would definitely buy just one to try out.. If the options for daylight, soft light, cool light, etc. are as varied as the options on the regular screw in led bulbs????

My pet screw in led bulb is a daylight 8.5 watt/ 60 watt equivalent.. A two pack is $5.84 at Wal-Mart... If I need more light, I can screw in a bigger bulb.... Sure hope Loon City doesn't come up with a title 24.....

 

[Vintage Veloce]

There is a variety of bulbs available, but no where near as many as a regular screw in.
I'm goibng to get one of those housings, and see how close it is to a regular recessed housing. May be possible to retrofit a screw in fixture.
These are the typical LEDs that mate with that can:
http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...ed/_5_6_inch_led_retrofit_module/_821331.html

They run about 90 bucks for a pack of 6 warm color, or 30 bucks EACH for ones closer to daylight like I want (home depot prices).
C

 

[LB-1911]

A source that may or may not be competetive $-wise.
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/led-recessed-lighting/halo-lighting

Good Luck

 

[cybrdyke]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-65W-Equivalent-Daylight-5-6-in-Retrofit-Trim-Recessed-Downlight-Dimmable-LED-Flood-Light-Bulb-E-800060/205943570
Home Depot.. $18 each in Daylight 5000 kelvin color.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Or you could move to America

Nebraska is nice,And semi warm this time of year!

 

[Syberia]

And it's all for naught because these little adapters exist to screw a regular bulb into one of those fancy new CA light sockets that "you can't possibly screw a regular bulb into."

 

[tarbellb]

Yeah its weird here. I just moved to CA from CO.

Why not just install outlets where you would have sockets and then you can source whatever fixture you want...... Costco or Sam LED shop lights perhaps?

 

[Shiftless]

Yeah its weird here. I just moved to CA from CO.

Why not just install outlets where you would have sockets and then you can source whatever fixture you want...... Costco or Sam LED shop lights perhaps?

^^^^^^^
here is the BEST idea. It's up to your inspector, but I don't see why that wouldn't pass.

 

[ddawg16]

Just another way to get us to spend more money on things that are utterly useless. They subsidize LEDs and sell them for $1 each at the dollar store, then go and mandate fixtures that they don't work in because the base is different. All in the name of getting people to use less electricity and save money.

You know not what what you talk about......but then again, you live in tweakerville.

Title 24 is actually a pretty good rule.....

Considering how the population in this state is growing....the cost to support more electrical needs is far greater than just getting people to use less.

Until recently, lighting accounted for about 30% of the electrical use in a typical home. Lighting is one of the easiest ways to reduce that electrical load.

I'm at a loss as to why the resistance to new lighting. I have ONE incandescent bulb in my house. ONE.....it's in the oven. My average electric bill is about $40/month. And no one in my house knows how to turn off a light. Most of the rooms have occupancy sensors...including the main hallway.

About half my fixtures have Edison sockets....but I'm in compliance because I have the occupancy sensors. Eventually I'll replace the Edison with a GU24 socket. The can lights I have make it easy to swap out the base.

I like the fact I no longer have to stock bulbs. The only spare bulbs I have are a couple of LED bulbs with miniature bases (chandelier type). My garage has 18 CFL's in it. In 6 years, I've replaced one. And it was actually a used one from many years before. Garage door opener has LED's now...because I couldn't get an incandescent to last more than 6 months in it.

Title 24 is one of those things that forces a good thing on people....but once you realize it is good....then life is good.

 

[Syberia]

Umm... I have no incandescent bulbs except those that provide heat for our chickens. Everything that is actually used for lighting purposes is CFL or LED. What I am opposed to is paying more for the GU24 sockets and bulbs when using a CFL or LED in a standard socket will accomplish the same thing and cost a whole lot less.

I also have solar panels. According to my Edison bills, my power usage is down 75% from this time last year. I have no resistance at all to new technology when it makes financial sense. The whole GU24 thing does not.

 

[Tunajoe]

You know not what what you talk about......but then again, you live in tweakerville.

Title 24 is actually a pretty good rule.....

.

I'm going to disagree with your opinion of Title 24.
A lot of the rules are feel good BS.
Example:
When I built my house a few years ago, they made me install combustion air ducts for my tankless water heater which was stored in a closet.
"They" don't want you to use "conditioned inside air" with your water heater.
All combustion air must come from outside.

I find it interesting that the State doesn't give a damn about my commercial hood vent sucking up my "conditioned air" nor do they care about my 5 fart fans which when turned on expel conditioned air.

The State does care about having a sealed fireproof glass front for my beautiful hand chiseled stone fire place. Again, you can't burn conditioned air.
I removed that hideous fireplace cover as soon as I was signed off.

 

[Norcal]

Title 24 is full of rules, that add unnecessary regulation to our lives, it gets really crazy when dealing with commercial (non-residential) buildings.

 

[Dave88LX]

How did you like the fixture/lamp? I am thinking of doing some of these.

 

[Falcon67]

To be fair, the Texas state tree is the Pecan and we've got plenty of nuts here...

One thing that things like Title 24 seem to ignore is that not everyone can afford $20 LED bulbs. It is mostly aimed at new or retro fit construction so there is some "if you can afford the mod, you can afford the bulb" thinking. We do need efforts to reduce loads but gubbermint could do a much better job of it with some sweetener rather than at regulatory gun point.

 

[paranoid56]

just install hte cans that have that orange plug, that will satisfy the inspector as thats to code and the cans themselves are cheap, then do what ever after. either install LEDs (what i did) or install the adapter and put in old style, as long as its still falls under what its rated for its fine.

 

[bczygan]

Install one conforming light and wiring in the walls and JB's for future lights.

After final approvals, do what you want.

But cans aren't a good solution anyway.

Choose something else.

Bill

 

[Vintage Veloce]

You can see how thing ended up at the end of my other lighting thread here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322858&showall=1

But in short, the inspector "let us" use can lights with normal screw type receptacles as we told him we were installing LED retrofit trim kits. Actually, our inspector just didn't seem to care that much, so all my electrical went through without any issues.
C

 

[-Brent-]

I'll admit, I didn't read all the mumbo jumbo in the link but I do firmly believe that it's one of those things that will be irrelevant in a decade or less.

My father and I were speaking about this, last night, and I told him a story about an acquaintance that stockpiled incandescent bulbs before they were being phased out in stores. The acquaintance and I talked about it as I was in the middle of converting my home to LED (like mentioned above, I only have one incandescent in the home - in my stove). The more I heard him speak, the more I realized that it was his beliefs about the government extending their reach to things that "effected" him. It really didn't appear to be about the actual favoring of the bulb or a slight to the technology. Because of this he will use a lesser bulb (in my opinion) for a lot longer.

Which leads me to my point that lots of these changes are resisted because of the govt's track record with changes.

 

[Falcon67]

Which leads me to my point that lots of these changes are resisted because of the govt's track record with changes.

There's a bit of art to "moving people's cheese" and sadly, most bureaucratic setups aren't good at it by nature. There's a fine line between "hey, this might be OK" and "you're not the boss of me!". Ask anyone with a 3 year old.

I've moved everything in the house to LED and so far - knock on synthetic wood product - they have easily gone past the CFL junk in life. The better bulbs make good light. And we've added dimmers, which are also a handy thing. I also like occupancy sensors - put one in the laundry room so you could come or go with a hand full of laundry or groceries and not worry about hitting a switch.