Calling all HVAC engineers

[Steve in UT]

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[LS6 Tommy]

IDK what the planned usage is for all the rooms, but living space cannot share an HVAC unit with a garage.

Tommy

 

[Steve in UT]

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[LS6 Tommy]

Well, technically, your "Man Cave" is living space...

Tommy

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Your picture doesn't show up.

Suggest that based on the dollar value of your project and the equipment involved, you should have professionals bid your project. The edm in particular will require a lot of ventilation and make up air.

Sounds like you are dropping a few hundred grand on this project at least (including all the equipment, furnishings, and stuff you plan to park in it) right?

Why try to save money on HVAC by guessing? Have someone (that you pay) do it right for you.

Just my thoughts. Also, I'm not sure HVAC "engineer" is a thing...but functionally there are people who design HVAC systems...which is what it sounds like you need...

Phil

 

[Steve in UT]

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[justinjoyal]

Not that It really matters, but maybe somebody would like to explain why my garage is living space.

I don't remember ever indicating that I was guessing on my furnace AC installation. Last time I checked, this forum was a "Heating and AC" forum. I thought heating and AC were supposed to be talked about here. Apparently the forum is just about guessing and if you want real answers, go talk to a pro. Obviously, none of those here!

Well, that escalated quickly..

 

[Steve in UT]

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[justinjoyal]

Unless you provide insulation values for your floors, walls and ceilings, as well as the number of doors/windows and their size, you will get nothing but guesstimates.

 

[danski0224]

A "pro" will get paid for his or her time.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Not that It really matters, but maybe somebody would like to explain why my garage is living space.

I don't remember ever indicating that I was guessing on my furnace AC installation. Last time I checked, this forum was a "Heating and AC" forum. I thought heating and AC were supposed to be talked about here. Apparently the forum is just about guessing and if you want real answers, go talk to a pro. Obviously, none of those here!

Your picture still doesn't show up.

I wasn't saying "you" were guessing. I was saying based on the data you have provided any answer you receive will be a guess by the person providing it.

Sounds like you have an awesome project planned. There's just going to be a lot of things to think through to make it right from a comfort and air quality standpoint. If you really are going to put an EDM (Electrical Discharge Machine) in there...you really will need to include exhaust for it...and the exhaust has to be balanced by makeup air and that air has to be conditioned.

I know enough about designing HVAC systems properly to know if I had your project, I would hire a pro to do it. That was my original advice to you and I stand by it. But you do what you want to do. You're paying for this project after all, not me. I get it.

Good luck with your project however you decide to go. And I'm serious about the EDM exhaust. I had 4 employees sickened when our EDM exhaust failed in a machine shop I working in. No permanent damage, but health and safety shut us down for days while everything got straightened out.

Phil

 

[Steve in UT]

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[Milzo]

I used HVAC Design Pros out of Ashville NC. to design the HVAC system for my new home that i GC'd in 2016. The 3 local HVAC companies that bid on installing my HVAC system all used the old rule of thumb method to size the equipment. One figured 75k and two figured 100k BTU furnaces. That seemed way to high knowing the lengths i went through to insulate the house with R-23 walls and an R-60 ceiling. Glad i decided to spend the $ and have a pro design it because i only needed 42k BTU furnace and our system performs great.

 

[Mike_Geee]

I understand that completely. I do hvac design in Oklahoma and it’s shocking how 95% of the companies understand the basics on how to service them but don’t understand the design upfront to begin with.

So let me see if I can help you here.

First like they said above what’s the construction of the area? Insulation type, floors, and all that. Next which way is the house facing as that will radically effect the load. What temp are you hoping to be able to keep it at?

The easiest way would be to install 3 separate mini splits so that you don’t have ductwork everywhere and all the extra cost. But if you want central heat and I the way I did mine was to do a Lennox zoning system with 3 thermostats and dampers. Gets you the best control and efficiency across it all.

Also like they said above if that middle room is a hang out room/man cave or anything along those lines then the code wouldn’t allow that to be apart of the same system. So that would also be another reason why mini splits would be ideal since they would all not be sharing sir.

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[86turbodsl]

When i was bidding HVAC companies to do my house, i automatically eliminated any that were rule-of-thumb and not doing a manual-J. Too much variation in designs that can swing it a bunch.

 

[danski0224]

Thanks for the responses, I'm really not trying to stir the pot. I am fully willing to pay for a professional calculation. I am a bit of a perfectionist and cynic and don't always trust the professional. I just like to educate myself as much as I can. The edm machine is not a big issue, I use it a few times a year and only for very small burns. I will however, look into the issue.

You can go to HVAC-Calc . com and purchase a homeowners license, last I checked, it was $50.

The learning curve isn't very steep, and it will certainly get you "in the ballpark".

It will do load calculations and duct design.

This will be a much better approach than asking random strangers on the internet for answers.

There are also companies/individuals that do HVAC load calculations only, without any installation services. The service typically includes duct design and equipment selection.

 

[Innovate1]

I had over 2:1 sizing variation when I asked people to . One big variable is how much you open the big OHDs. I have no idea what they assumed as they never asked about it but I told them it was infrequent. I finally did my own estimates using some free sites on line and told them what I wanted. I don't need quick recovery and in extreme weather I don't mind if the temp varies a bit. Many times the system gets oversized to try to reduce complaints it doesn't control temp but that may not remove humidity very well.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Not that It really matters, but maybe somebody would like to explain why my garage is living space.

I don't remember ever indicating that I was guessing on my furnace AC installation. Last time I checked, this forum was a "Heating and AC" forum. I thought heating and AC were supposed to be talked about here. Apparently the forum is just about guessing and if you want real answers, go talk to a pro. Obviously, none of those here!

The man cave and office are both classified as living space.

We can't give "real" answers based on a description. The proper load calcs have to be done.

Tommy

 

[Steve in UT]

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[danski0224]

I don't know, I seem to be getting some good info from complete strangers. For example, I now know of the web site HVAC-Calc .com

That website will help YOU get the answers you seek.

It probably turns up near the top of the search results for "HVAC load calculation software".

It isn't the same as someone stating that you need X or Y Btu or equipment to meet your needs.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I guess it is my bad calling it a man cave and office, it is actually a workshop.

It's all garage, I just happen to put up a couple walls for a warmer section.

Thank You everyone for your info and insights. I will have to post my progress.

Tommy

 

[brewchief]

Couple of thoughts, the more detailed the info you can feed into a load calc program the better, oftentimes on an existing building a lot of assumptions have to be made, knowing the details of construction will help out a lot.

In order to be able to heat/cool each area individually you will need some sort of zone control, duct design will be important. A system like this I would plan for each areas duct system to be able to handle the entire airflow requirement of the equipment, it will be oversized a bit if multiple zones are calling but new equipment with ECM motors will not be happy with high static pressure caused by ductwork that can only handle a portion of the airflow.

I would strongly consider using 2 stage( or modulating) equipment if possible along with a zone control system that can run multi stage equipment.

Spiral duct is nice, I suggest using a good diffuser designed for spiral duct, I use Hart and Cooley ones that have each vane independently adjustable, even with duct 16' in the air you can feel airflow standing on the ground, I see register boxes with a cheap grill used often and they don't work as well, they are far cheaper however. I have had as much money in diffusers on a job as the spiral duct and fittings itself. We redid our duct system in our own shop and my boss about choked when he saw the price of the diffusers until he realized how well it worked, when he did he ordered everything to redo the duct system on the other section of shop the same way.

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