Can a lathe be too big?

[kmacht]

I need some advice. I am looking at buying a lathe. Right now I have a grizzly G4015z 3 in 1 machine. I never use the milling portion of the machine, already have a nice drill press for drilling holes, and the features on the lathe seem like too much of a compromise in exchange for being able to do the milling and drilling. What I want is a nice dedicated lathe.

I have been looking around on craigslist for about a week now and everything within 250 miles is either a no name brand lathe with some missing parts or very expensive. I was originally looking for a 9" southbend lathe with some tooling and thought I could get one for around $700. Everything in my area for a 9" southbend is $1000 and up with very little tooling. I did run across one possible deal. It is a 16" x 6' southbend lathe. Tooling is limited (3 jaw, 4 jaw, faceplate, taper attachment, and tool holder) but the price looks good at $600.

My concern is two fold with this lathe. I do mostly smaller parts but nothing requiring extreme accuracy. Are there any downsides to working small parts on such a large lathe? The second issue is actually getting this thing into my shop. The guy selling it will load it on my trailer with a forklift but I have to unload it when I get home. I have no idea how I would move 2500 lbs of machinery off a trailer.

I guess my question for all you lathe owners out there, is it possible to buy too big of a lathe and do you think I will regret going with the sb 16" over a 9" lathe?

Keith

 

[toms73novass]

I would take a 16" lathe any day over the 9" if I had the room. I have a 13" SB but If I had the room for a 16" I would have gone that route.

 

[TireTracks]

we had a old WWII surplus lathe at the metalshop at my old HS, it was so big it was more or less unusable for anything smaller than 3-4" around, used 1/2"-1" tool bits, Had a 7hp 480v3Phs motor on it. THAt one was too big.

I would make sure the ways in good shape. I would wonder if they might be worn, sence it's going so cheap.

 

[tcsalvage]

i used to run small and very large lathes, and always prefered the larger lathes. the small ones were good for stock under an inch in diameter, where the large ones would turn whatever would fit into the chuck and clear the ways.

 

[larry_g]

One of the things with a large lathe is top speed. Some of the older lathes have a top speed of 500-800 rpm and that is slow for small parts. Another is that with a real heavy carriage it does not have the 'feel' you may need to manually work some jobs. For me I have a 10" and a 13" lathe. Last month I had a run of near 800 parts in the 1/4" dia range to remove .010" from one feature. I used the larger lathe because it has nice collet setup on it.

When checking your lathe out see if it has plain or roller bearings in the headstock. If plain bearings then it will be a slower speed lathe. Nothing wrong with plain bearings and for some jobs may be desirable, just not highspeed work.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[tdkkart]

Much easier to do small stuff on a big lathe than big stuff on a small lathe. A big lathe can be fitted with a 5C collet chuck or collet closer and be very useful for small stuff.
Fitting small chucks is also not a real issue. Actually I've seen a small chuck clamped in a big chuck, more than once.
A 16x72 lathe is not all the big, only 2" more center height than my 12"x 24 Atlas.

I'd make sure the machine is in really good shape before buying it, if it's worn out it'll be near useless and impossible to get rid of, if it's in good shape and tight it'll be as good as any smaller machine.
We've got a 20" Monarch at work that's just like brand new, and cuts like it too. It's in a shop that typically did small work on 10EE Monarchs so it hardly got used. The shop wore out scads of 10EEs that are long gone, but the big one is still there.

 

[ibedayank]

wouldn't want to make watch parts on a 36inch swing 12 foot bed lathe...

 

[tcsalvage]

wouldn't want to make watch parts on a 36inch swing 12 foot bed lathe...

and i wouldn't want to turn a 24'' forging in a jewelers lathe. he didn't say he way making watches, just that the lathe he was looking at was a little larger than he was wanting to find.

 

[A_Pmech]

I make small parts on a big machine all the time:

 

[tcsalvage]

left hand whitworth? used to chase some left hand treads and some doubles and some quads (fire hydrants), acme was my favorite.

 

[mike13u]

I make small parts on a big machine all the time:

Thats a monster there. Sweet!!

 

[Griff93]

I think the ideal setup would be to have two. I realize this isn't practical in a home shop setup. The larger machine can make small parts but not the other way around. I had a 10" Logan and I traded it for a 18" Reed Prentice. For smaller parts(-2") , especially aluminum I would prefer to have to the Logan back. There's no comparison in the rigidity of the machines though. The Logan went to my Father so I can always go use it if I want to.

For a single do it all lathe for a home shop, I think something around the 12-13" range that is a heavy duty one would be pretty ideal for general turning work. Obviously watch making/pen making or turning big stuff wouldn't work well or at all with this setup. This would cover 95% of the stuff the average home hobby guy is going to encounter. The rest could always be farmed out if need be.

For moving a large lathe, find a tow truck driver with a boom truck. I got mine unloaded for $50. We used some pieces of tubing with bearings slid over them to roll it around in my shop. It worked much better than the rolling it around on some pieces of pipe.

 

[Ign]

As at least two others have already noted, if you can find a machine w a 5C collet closer you essentially get the best of both worlds. I had to groove (100) 3mm screws on my 15" lathe (not that 15" is big IMO), with the collet closer it was a breeze and of course the collets also accept a stop easily which is SOO nice.

Seriously, a 16" swing is not a big machine. You'll have no problems. In school we had only 16" Webbs and every student had to build a model engine before graduating. I single pointed 6-32 on those machines.....

If you're regularly working with smaller than a #6 fastener you should probably be looking at a dedicated toolroom lathe anyhow.

 

[fflintstone]

You will find 10-16” lathes cheaper than a 9” and yes they (9”) tend to go for 1K in good shape.
Conversely I paid less than scrap value for an non powered 24” swing, 5’ bed lathe with 3 & 4 jaw chucks a 24” and 12” tooling plates and a few more doohickeys. My plan is to one day build a shed for it and power it with a gas engine.
Despite the piss poor economy here in Michigan I see more lathes in the back of pickups changing hands.

Today I helped my friend pick up a Bridgeport for his shop.

 

[kbs2244]

The problem with big lathes is, they are big (and heavy.)
F you have the room and can get the power, go for it.
They can be a real deal in today’s economy.

But be prepared for it not to be appreciated.
I almost cried watching a 16 foot bed machine being winched up onto a flatbed as scrap when the kids were clearing out Dads “junk.”

 

[bczygan]

If you have the room and can move it. Here is some info I wrote on how to disassemble a South Bend Lathe for moving:
http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/How-To-Disassemble-a-South-Bend-Lathe-for-Moving.pdf

 

[onewaydave]

Consider a few other things before you leap. Is the 16" manual or QC gears? Can it thread? Are the ways in decent shape? Does it need a complete overhaul?

On the pro side, do you have enough room for it? If so, forget it. If not get it and build a new shop and post pictures here for us to see.

Dave, proud owner of a 1902 SB sold new to his GGF, is flat belt driven and alllll manual, for a total of 17" x 7'.

 

[kmacht]

I decided to pass on the lathe. Went to look at it this weekend and it just wasn't in the shape I was hoping for. There was lots of surface rust all over it. The ways didn't seem to have much wear but the machine would have had to be disassembled, cleaned and put back together before I could have used it. That with the fact that I didn't have a good way to get it off my trailer, it would take up alot of floor space, and really is bigger than what I would use it for 90% of the time made me pass. I guess it is back to looking at smaller lathes. If anyone has a lead on a good 9" model A southbend in the Northeast let me know.

Keith

 

[diesel research]

Back the trailer between an a frame and hoist up with chain fall?

 

[BFBOB]

Can a lathe be too big?
I came across one that could have had for the haulage. Nice shape, very used, but serviceable. It was, as I recall, a 6 x 30.

Feet, that is. Came from a locomotive shop. I had to pass.

 

[kmacht]

I'm going to look at another lathe tonight. Guy said it was a southbend but couldn't tell me what model. The picture he sent is a bit confusing. From the lathes.uk sight there is a picture of the table it is on that is said to come with a 10" heavy, but the headstock looks like it might be a 10" light. It has change gears and power crossfeed so it looks like an A model. Below is a picture. If anybody can identify it let me know. He is asking $800 which might be reasonable depending on what tooling is with it and what kind of shape the bed and bearings are in.

Keith

 

[pro machine Engineering]

if your big lathe is tooled properly it will do anything a small lathe will. If it wont hold tolerance on small items it wont hold it on big either. look at it this way will a big roll back bed wreck be able to haul a vw bug. If not its junk

 

[mrbreezeet1]

I'm going to look at another lathe tonight. Guy said it was a southbend but couldn't tell me what model. The picture he sent is a bit confusing. From the lathes.uk sight there is a picture of the table it is on that is said to come with a 10" heavy, but the headstock looks like it might be a 10" light. It has change gears and power crossfeed so it looks like an A model. Below is a picture. If anybody can identify it let me know. He is asking $800 which might be reasonable depending on what tooling is with it and what kind of shape the bed and bearings are in.

Keith

The picture is not real great, looks like a quick change gear box.
Did you get it?
The yahoo southbend group is pretty good, there is this guy, I think Dennis Turk is his name.
Rebuilds them as a hobby I think. Knows a lot about them.

 

[kmacht]

Yes, I ended up buying it. The serial numbers on it make it a Southbend 9" A version. It is a little different than most 9" sb lathes as it has the jack shaft and motor mounted under the table. I was originally going to pass on it when I first saw it as it needs a serious cleaning and probably a re-paint but then the guy showed me what else came with it. There were three drawers loaded with tooling, a number of chucks, all sorts of tool bit holders, a taper attachment, etc. On top of that he also threw in the most of a second 9" sb lathe. It came with a second head stock, apron/carriage/cross slide, and quick change gear box. I should be able to turn around and sell them to re-coup some of my money.

After spending the morning disassembling and lifting the lathe off my trailer and up a flight of stairs to the shop I am an glad I didn't go for the 16" lathe. It would have been way too heavy and way too much work for what it was worth.

Keith

 

[mrbreezeet1]

Get some better pictures up if you can.
Sounds pretty good with all the tooling.
Taper attachment is not cheap either.

 

[Ric in Richmond]

Great deal!!!

Now go get this kit!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuild-Man...ultDomain_0&hash=item230a60e89f#ht_1196wt_754

Manual is superb and all the felts and gaskets are there for you.

I stripped mine with citrus based cleaner, cleaned everything up and put it back together. Runs like a top!!

LOVE IT!

 

[Mike in Ohio]

Can a lathe be too big?
I came across one that could have had for the haulage. Nice shape, very used, but serviceable. It was, as I recall, a 6 x 30.

Feet, that is. Came from a locomotive shop. I had to pass.

No sense of adventure!!!!!

 

[BTG]

I make small parts on a big machine all the time:

Too Big??? Never!

I hear this is A_P's new lathe for 6-32 screws!

 

[bad_idea]

i've seen bigger.

 

[jpoe]

Yes, I ended up buying it. The serial numbers on it make it a Southbend 9" A version. It is a little different than most 9" sb lathes as it has the jack shaft and motor mounted under the table. I was originally going to pass on it when I first saw it as it needs a serious cleaning and probably a re-paint but then the guy showed me what else came with it. There were three drawers loaded with tooling, a number of chucks, all sorts of tool bit holders, a taper attachment, etc. On top of that he also threw in the most of a second 9" sb lathe. It came with a second head stock, apron/carriage/cross slide, and quick change gear box. I should be able to turn around and sell them to re-coup some of my money.

After spending the morning disassembling and lifting the lathe off my trailer and up a flight of stairs to the shop I am an glad I didn't go for the 16" lathe. It would have been way too heavy and way too much work for what it was worth.

Keith

I did not see it mentioned, but on the off chance you have an extra tailstock and counter shaft pulley, I would be interested in purchasing them from you.

 

[Ric in Richmond]

In the show "Off Limits" on the history channel they go to the piers in San Francisco there is a lathe that has to be 80 feet long. Just enormous.

SO yeah..a lathe CAN be too big!!!

The camera starts out the shot on the shop floor through a steady rest that has to be 6 feet in diameter.

 

[A_Pmech]

I hear this is A_P's new lathe for 6-32 screws!

Ewww! A Clausing!

More my taste:

 

[Drew_flux]

Ewww! A Clausing!

More my taste:

i would like to see you get that in your already packed shop, let alone the transmarobird

 

[RBailey]

Worked in an old Russian shipyard 10 years ago and they had a BIG lathe for propellor shafts.
Must have had a 10 foot diameter and about 45 feet long.
The tool post even had a seat on it for the operator.
Not a single digital read out, all operated by a craftsman.

Sorry no pictures though as was before the days of digital cameras.

So can a lathe be to big, think that one might have been !

 

[A_Pmech]

i would like to see you get that in your already packed shop, let alone the transmarobird

Starting to think about an addition for some certain machines. There aren't a lot of shops around here with big capabilities.

 

[RBailey]

Okay found some pictures from one of my stints in a yard in china.

Think this might be "too big"

 

[Kevin54]

THE WORLDS LARGEST CENTRE LATHE , IS A WALDRICH SIEGEN ,IT WAS INSTALLED AT THE ELECTRICTY SUPPLY COMMISSION OF SOUTH AFRICA (E.S.C.O.M),ROSHERVILLE IN 1973 (CAN BE VERIFIED IN THE GUINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS).
MACHINE WEIGHT:458.6 TONS
BED LENGTH :126 FOOT
WORKPIECE WEIGHT: 330 TON
SWING OVER BED 16 FT
I HAVE SEEN THIS LATHE IN ACTION AS A FRIEND OF MINE OPERATED IT IN THE EARLY 1980's. I WORKED A FRENCH SCULFORT AT ATLAS AIRCRAFT SOUTH AFRICA, MACHINING MIRAGE F1 TURBINES . THE SCULFORT'S CENTRE WAS INSTALLED IN THE TAILSTOCK WITH THE AID OF A CRANE.COMPARED TO THE WALDRICH THE SCULFORT LOOKED LIKE A BENCH LATHE.I HAVE SEEN SHIPYARD LATHES THEY ARE NOWHERE CLOSE IN SIZE TO ROLL/TURBINE LATHES.
SOME OF THE BIGGEST MACHINE TOOLS ARE TO BE FOUND IN SOUTH AFRICA , DUE TO THE MINING INDUSTRY.
THE LARGEST MAAG GEAR CUTTER IS AT DAVID BROWN GEAR INDUSTRIES BENONI SOUTH AFRICA, THE GEAR BLANK IS CAST IN FOUR SEGMENTS THEN ASSEMBLED AND MACHINED ON A VERTICAL BORING MILL, BEFORE GOING ON THE MAAG. THE DEPTH OF THE GEAR (HEIGHT) DWARFS A MAN!!!!!!!

 

[ndnchf]

You say that you'd use it mostly for small parts. I'm the same way. I make mostly small parts. About 25 years ago I bought an Atlas/Craftsman 12x24 lathe. I've made hundreds of parts on it over the years. Sure there were a few times when I would have liked to have a larger machine, but overall the Atlas has proven to be ideal for my needs and after a quarter of a century, its an old friend. Get what meets your needs.

 

[chris fresh]

You say that you'd use it mostly for small parts. I'm the same way. I make mostly small parts. About 25 years ago I bought an Atlas/Craftsman 12x24 lathe. I've made hundreds of parts on it over the years. Sure there were a few times when I would have liked to have a larger machine, but overall the Atlas has proven to be ideal for my needs and after a quarter of a century, its an old friend. Get what meets your needs.

x2,mine has served me well.

 

[RBailey]

@kevin54