can anyone explain why?

[maddawg1952]

Always wondered why sockets and wrenches come in metric but the ratchets are always SAE measurment of 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" 3/4" drive, since other countries don't use SAE. Can ayone explain this? I understand that the system was invented in the USA, all I want to know is what it's called in other countries or do they still just call it 1/4" drive 3/8" drive 1/2" drive etc.

 

[bcradio]

Tradition would be my guess... From before metric was used here in the states perhaps.

 

[maddawg1952]

Maybe, but I worked with lots of Foreign born people and they never ask for a .250 ratchet. It's like they always used a 1/4" drive. DON"T QUOTE MY MATH Its just trying to make my point. I guess what I'm really asking is.. in other countries is it still a 1/4" drive a 3/8" drive ETC> ?

 

[Skin]

Always wondered why sockets and wrenches come in metric but the ratchets are always SAE measurment of 1/4" 3/8" 1/2" 3/4" drive, since other countries don't use SAE. Can ayone explain this?

American design and origin, remember the metric system didn't really get adopted by the US industry until the 70s and by then drive sizing was pretty standard. Metric based countries do use metric designations for the drive sizes, occasionally rounded.

1/4 = 6.3mm or 6mm
3/8 = 9.5mm or 10mm
1/2 = 12.7mm or 12.5mm
3/4 = 19mm or 20mm

 

[maddawg1952]

OH That's what I was really asking. Thanks I twisted some wrenches when I was overseas in the Service but they were American wrenches on American Iron, never stopped to ask the Indiginous People what they used. And it was almost 40 years ago I prolly wouldn't even remember.

 

[CWP1616L]

They're already in metric:

6.35mm
9.525mm
12.7mm
19.05mm

 

[ZRX61]

Tradition would be my guess... From before metric was used here in the states perhaps.

Don't forget about metric sparkplug threads .. 14x1.25mm on SBC's etc...

According to Machinery's Handbook (24th ed pg 1650), there are four standard SAE spark plug threads, all metric: M18 x 1.5; M14 x 1.25; M12 x 1.25; and M10 x 1.0

 

[metaleltr]

Don't forget about metric sparkplug threads .. 14x1.25mm on SBC's etc...

According to Machinery's Handbook (24th ed pg 1650), there are four standard SAE spark plug threads, all metric: M18 x 1.5; M14 x 1.25; M12 x 1.25; and M10 x 1.0

lol SAE is metric, Go figure!

 

[Rural53]

If my source is correct (Wikipedia has to be taken with a grain of salt) the ratcheting socket wrench was patented by J J Richardson in 1863. As the manufactorers of socket wrench settled on standard sizes, 1/4", 3/8", 1/2" etc, the rest of the world basically followed for reasons of interchangablility.


I do remember seeing a Russian socket set on here in 3/8" drive. edit: it was 1/2" drive here

I also wonder if the French, being staunchly metric ever had "metric" drive sockets?

 

[BigGMC]

I'd like to pick up a set of metric crescent wrenches, never know when one will come in handy.....

 

[maddawg1952]

They're already in metric:

6.35mm
9.525mm
12.7mm
19.05mm

I don't think I ever heard anyone ask for a 12.7 mm drive ratchet, I'll have to pose this question to the Uraguain mechanics helper next time I'm in the shop. And watch him tilt his head and look at me like I'm from a distant planet.

 

[Rico.]

I also wonder if the French, being staunchly metric ever had "metric" drive sockets?

Not so much a metric drive, but Facom did invent a new type of drive called CDX which was
a 3/8" drive size, but could transfer 1/2" drive torque. The trouble is there are a squillion sockets
in the world and apart from a teeny tiny few they are all 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" (obviously not
including the larger drive sizes) and because they have been around for over 100 years
trying to sell a ratchet that uses a completely new drive system or a metric sized square drive
would quite simply mean you would have to buy a whole new set of sockets to fit it.

It's basic economics for companys, if they want to sell ratchets make them in the sizes that
most people will have sockets to fit them. Needless to say the oddball imperial drive sizes and
the Facom CDX drive didn't make a big impact (pun unintended) in the world.

I once did a thread asking how 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" became the norm in socketry and
the best answer someone came up with was...

1/4" = 2/8"
3/8" = 3/8"
1/2" = 4/8"

It seems logical when you look at it this way, and because of the amount of sockets in
the world I wouldn't expect to see a change in drive sizes for many generations. Making
any kind of new drive size, metric or otherwise would just not be good business.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

Take your pick:

1) We're better.

2) We won the ****** war!

 

[Outlawmws]

Because

 

[shampoop]

Same reason why spark plugs are still SAE. Because they were from the start. No reasons compelling enough to change it.

 

[03protege]

Because

Good answer, I agree.

 

[machine_punk]

I was wondering the EXACT same thing the other day. Eventually filed it under, "Interesting to think about, but I'll probably never have the real answer."

Kev

 

[87FoRunner]

Same question to wheel rim diameter...

 

[Schurkey]

Same question to wheel rim diameter...

THAT brings back memories of the disasterous Ford/Michelin "TRX" tire sizing in the '70's and '80's.

What a screw-up. You would not believe the number of people wanting us to "stretch" a standard-size tire over their TRX oddball metric ******** wheels because they didn't want to get bent-over by Michelin for the special tires required.

NO, standard tires WOULDN'T stretch over those wheels.

Lots of those people bought Treasure Yard wheels for their cars to get rid of the ******* tire sizing.

 

[B17E1943]

THAT brings back memories of the disasterous Ford/Michelin "TRX" tire sizing in the '70's and '80's.

What a screw-up. You would not believe the number of people wanting us to "stretch" a standard-size tire over their TRX oddball metric ******** wheels because they didn't want to get bent-over by Michelin for the special tires required.

NO, standard tires WOULDN'T stretch over those wheels.

Lots of those people bought Treasure Yard wheels for their cars to get rid of the ******* tire sizing.

Took a real genius to come up with that "better idea."

 

[hifi_hokie]

NO, standard tires WOULDN'T stretch over those wheels.

You'd be surprised at what people are stretching these days

Not that I'd actually volunteer to get in some of these things...

 

[Scotsman1886]

The metric system is the devil's work. Thats why. When I'm president, the metric system will be banned. <Grin>

 

[demographic]

American design and origin, remember the metric system didn't really get adopted by the US industry until the 70s and by then drive sizing was pretty standard. Metric based countries do use metric designations for the drive sizes, occasionally rounded.

1/4 = 6.3mm or 6mm
3/8 = 9.5mm or 10mm
1/2 = 12.7mm or 12.5mm
3/4 = 19mm or 20mm

Do we? News to me.

 

[87FoRunner]

The metric system is the devil's work. Thats why. When I'm president, the metric system will be banned. <Grin>

Addition and subtraction is quicker than multiplication and division.

 

[maddawg1952]

Do we? News to me.

how do they ask for a ratchet drive in GB by size?

 

[serviceguy]

The metric system is the devil's work. Thats why. When I'm president, the metric system will be banned. <Grin>

I respectfully disagree. It works both ways, if you're used to SAE than metric is PIA and so is the other way around. In defense of the metric system it is a little bit easier to divide by 10 than by 12, not to mention that you still use base 10 when working with standard fractional numbers (i.e. .004"). I've known more than a [US] machinist that could not setup his lathe without a ruler. Simply because of the base 10 I do consider the metric system more straight forward, but again I was born and raised in Italy.

To answer the original question, if you make sockets why taking yourself out of the market coming out with a new metric ratcher that is not compatible with anything already out there? Not to mention that the ratchet serves no other purpose than to turn the proper socket, metric or SAE.

 

[maddawg1952]

I respectfully disagree. It works both ways, if you're used to SAE than metric is PIA and so is the other way around. In defense of the metric system it is a little bit easier to divide by 10 than by 12, not to mention that you still use base 10 when working with standard fractional numbers (i.e. .004"). I've known more than a [US] machinist that could not setup his lathe without a ruler. Simply because of the base 10 I do consider the metric system more straight forward, but again I was born and raised in Italy.

To answer the original question, if you make sockets why taking yourself out of the market coming out with a new metric ratcher that is not compatible with anything already out there? Not to mention that the ratchet serves no other purpose than to turn the proper socket, metric or SAE.

I think you may have missed my point, I was asking what they call it in other countries. I don't want to reinvent the wheel , or start all new drive combinations. But thanks for your imput.

 

[demographic]

how do they ask for a ratchet drive in GB by size?

Quarter, three eighths, half inch, three quarters and inch.


We might have metric sockets and SAE, Whitworth and whatever but the drives are the same as everyone else uses.

 

[Skin]

Do we? News to me.

I meant real metric based countries like Europe and Asia. Not mini-USA.

 

[KPSquared]

Where exactly is "mini-USA"?

 

[justanengineer]

According to Machinery's Handbook (24th ed pg 1650), there are four standard SAE spark plug threads, all metric: M18 x 1.5; M14 x 1.25; M12 x 1.25; and M10 x 1.0

Yup, bc the major purpose of professional societies is to set standards amongst ALL the members around the world, which is more easily done as much of the world operates under the metric system. I'd have to scratch my head a bit to come up with a fractional standard that SAE has come up with.

I respectfully disagree. It works both ways, if you're used to SAE than metric is PIA and so is the other way around. In defense of the metric system it is a little bit easier to divide by 10 than by 12, not to mention that you still use base 10 when working with standard fractional numbers (i.e. .004"). I've known more than a [US] machinist that could not setup his lathe without a ruler. Simply because of the base 10 I do consider the metric system more straight forward, but again I was born and raised in Italy.

I agree each is a PITA to those not used to the respective one, but I would disagree about which one is "easier." Fractional inch converted to decimal inch has many repeating numerals which readily appear (.625 = 5/8, .0625 = 1/16), so size estimations, tolerancing etc is much simpler when youre working outside of your comfort zone.

US machinist ruler = non-fractional.

Sorry, I cant say I ever asked any foreigners why they adopted a few of our tool standards, but I also dont question when we adopt theirs either.

 

[serviceguy]

I think you may have missed my point, I was asking what they call it in other countries. I don't want to reinvent the wheel , or start all new drive combinations. But thanks for your imput.

I wasn't actually answering your question but rather what I felt had became the trend of the posts that may have drifted a little. To answer your question then (even though limited to my country of origin, Italy) we all it exactly the same but in Italian (mezzo pollice=1/2, tre ottavi=3/8, un quarto=1/4).

 

[serviceguy]

Fractional inch converted to decimal inch has many repeating numerals which readily appear (.625 = 5/8, .0625 = 1/16), so size estimations, tolerancing etc is much simpler when youre working outside of your comfort zone.

Did you mean that it is much simpler when you're NOT working outside of your comfort zone? If so I totally agree, I can compare .625 to .0625 a lot faster than 5/8 to 1/16. An added problem I have when working with standard measurements is that I can't picture in my mind what they size up to (with the exception of the most common such as foot and yard).

US machinist ruler = non-fractional.

I used the word ruler rather loosely I guess, maybe it was a conversion tool of some sort, it's been a few years.

 

[maddawg1952]

I wasn't actually answering your question but rather what I felt had became the trend of the posts that may have drifted a little. To answer your question then (even though limited to my country of origin, Italy) we all it exactly the same but in Italian (mezzo pollice=1/2, tre ottavi=3/8, un quarto=1/4).

Thanks I seem to be getting the same answer form all those I ask that have worked in other countries.

 

[demographic]

I meant real metric based countries like Europe and Asia. Not mini-USA.

What language are you speaking?

 

[CWP1616L]

Didn't Snap-on invent the square drive system with the spring loaded ball retainer? Back in those days, we were using the imperial way of measuring things.

 

[netcaretaker]

I do not know who invented the drive sizes but they are standards now both ISO which i will not buy a copy of ISO 3315 and also DIN3122 - I do have a link to a shot of one of the pages ofr the DIN3122 -


http://www.standardsdoc.org/images/goodsnewpic/DIN 3122-1989-03.jpg

So, they are world wide standards, i would assume that they are that way because it was invented in the US and no one wanted to throw away all the tooling that it took to create the sockets.

 

[serviceguy]

I meant real metric based countries like Europe and Asia. Not mini-USA.

Not trying to be picky but that is wrong on so many level...UK is in Europe and both Europe and Asia are continents and not countries...

 

[Cryptic1911]

The metric system is the devil's work. Thats why. When I'm president, the metric system will be banned. <Grin>

I beg to differ.

 

[Maexle]

There are quite a few things which are all over the world in inch:

Ratchets,
Picture sizes,
Wheel dia,
lot of Ammo sizes (7.62mm i.e. is .3" / from the Winchester .308 "),
Hard disc drive sizes (2.5" / 3.5"),
Monitor / TV screen sizes,
Speaker diameter,
lot of the common roller bearing balls are 1/4"

Thank god they never tried to change that, that would confuse the hell out of everybody...