sbosecker
Well-known member
Can anyone identify this vise? I've searched quite a bit with no joy.
Scott
Can anyone identify this vise
- Thread starter sbosecker
- Start date
Can anyone identify this vise? I've searched quite a bit with no joy.
Scott
wild cowboy
Banned
It resembles a Morgan more than any other make (actually, the resemblance is rather striking).
what is the jaw width & weight, and what will ya take for it?
private message me if it is for sale or trade!
also - I'm gonna say that the bolt & nut attaching it to the swivel base is not original, but everything else about it looks quite original and legit. including the base, handle, etc.
what is the jaw width & weight, and what will ya take for it?
private message me if it is for sale or trade!
also - I'm gonna say that the bolt & nut attaching it to the swivel base is not original, but everything else about it looks quite original and legit. including the base, handle, etc.
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It resembles a Morgan more than any other make (actually, the resemblance is rather striking).
what is the jaw width & weight, and what will ya take for it?
It is not mine. Supposedly it is a 4-inch vise - not much info. I am waiting for a call-back and was trying to get as much info as possible before taking any action.
We'll see if the person selling it bothers to respond. It may be sold already.
Scott
drivesitfar
Well-known member
i'm still researching mine because there isn't much information on this vise. i'm guessing that if you put in Standard vise you might also have ended up with a Zillion links if you googled it?
one theory is that these vises were made by Standard Oil company, but I'm still researching. i'm guessing mine was made in the 30's or 40's and it's a well made vise.
on mine the main screw extends out past the slide about 3/4 of an inch as you can see in my picture.
one theory is that these vises were made by Standard Oil company, but I'm still researching. i'm guessing mine was made in the 30's or 40's and it's a well made vise.
on mine the main screw extends out past the slide about 3/4 of an inch as you can see in my picture.
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Drivesitfar,
Thank you very much!
Yes "Standard Vise" as a search term is an exercise in futility. I did try just looking at images but didn't see anything.
I couldn't see it in the picture of the one I'm interested in due to the paint but I see yours appears to have different removable jaws than the Morgan - which this thing's castings do resemble.
Best regards,
Scott
Thank you very much!
Yes "Standard Vise" as a search term is an exercise in futility. I did try just looking at images but didn't see anything.
I couldn't see it in the picture of the one I'm interested in due to the paint but I see yours appears to have different removable jaws than the Morgan - which this thing's castings do resemble.
Best regards,
Scott
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ganymede
Well-known member
Over the years there have been at least a couple of Standard Tool Company's .
One was in Cleveland and before that there was one in Providence. Maybe one of them made vises.
One was in Cleveland and before that there was one in Providence. Maybe one of them made vises.
wild cowboy
Banned
Morgan has used 3 different jaw styles over the years, it's either made by Morgan, or I bet Morgan sued them back in the day!
I would buy it unless the price is just stupid, my Morgan is built like a tank (212 lbs)
About 2 hours ago the gentleman responded to my "I'm interested" response to his Craigslist ad. He had listed this at $25 or an offer. I drove the 40 minutes to his place and handed him $25.
This one weighs a few ounces over 40 pounds.
Pictures will follow shortly.
Scott
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classicJackets
Well-known member
Scott, Cool find on the vise! I just picked up a much smaller one yesterday that I'm having a similarly difficult time tracing back.. I'll post pictures after work today.
Funny coincidence - I'm from Peachtree City too! Moved out for college two years ago but I try to make it back time to time!
Doug
Funny coincidence - I'm from Peachtree City too! Moved out for college two years ago but I try to make it back time to time!
Doug
wild cowboy
Banned
oh yeah, you stole that - even at $80-$100 it would have been a buy! (if it is 4")
also, I am really thinking that Morgan jaw faces would fit this, let me see if that type are still available new
are you sure the jaw width is precisely 4" and it is right at 40 lbs.?
also if you could get the maximum opening distance between jaws and the throat depth
I have a sneaky feeling it is a 3 1/2" jaw width if the weight you measured is accurate
also, I am really thinking that Morgan jaw faces would fit this, let me see if that type are still available new
are you sure the jaw width is precisely 4" and it is right at 40 lbs.?
also if you could get the maximum opening distance between jaws and the throat depth
I have a sneaky feeling it is a 3 1/2" jaw width if the weight you measured is accurate
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wild cowboy
Banned
the jaw faces are available, right about $50 for a brand new pair
if the jaw width is actually a full 4" - the weight with swivel base should be closer to 58 lbs.
if the jaw width is actually a full 4" - the weight with swivel base should be closer to 58 lbs.
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It was advertised as 4 inch.
I suppose 3-1/2 inch would be the next step down from 4 inch?
Hmmm... it's neither fish nor fowl.
I'm seeing 3-7/8 inch.
First picture is untouched. There is a shadow on the left side of the ruler that pretty much makes it unreadable.
I used Photoshop in the second picture just to "punch up" the shadow.
The first time I weighed it was with an electronic fish scales. It came in a few ounces over 40 pounds. The second time I took our electronic bathroom scales out to the garage. I stepped on it without the vise and it read 160.4 pounds; with the vise it was 200.8 pounds. So it appears that it is a consistent 40 pounds and change.
I suppose 3-1/2 inch would be the next step down from 4 inch?
Hmmm... it's neither fish nor fowl.
I'm seeing 3-7/8 inch.
First picture is untouched. There is a shadow on the left side of the ruler that pretty much makes it unreadable.
I used Photoshop in the second picture just to "punch up" the shadow.
The first time I weighed it was with an electronic fish scales. It came in a few ounces over 40 pounds. The second time I took our electronic bathroom scales out to the garage. I stepped on it without the vise and it read 160.4 pounds; with the vise it was 200.8 pounds. So it appears that it is a consistent 40 pounds and change.
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wild cowboy
Banned
well we do have quite a mystery here! - get the throat depth and max jaw opening, that should clear things up!
balane
Well-known member
Just to throw this out there, 100mm is right at 3 7/8"
wild cowboy
Banned
yeah 3-7/8" is 98.42 mm, so I would have to admit that I think you are on to something here, perhaps this is a foreign Morgan clone. - Still quite an impressive vise, and he definitely got a smokin deal.
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Throat Depth.
Max Jaw Opening.
I'm not sure how these terms are defined.
From the top of the slide to the top of the jaw is 2-15/16 inches. I assume that is the throat depth.
When I open the jaws until they won't open any further I have 7-3/8 inches. I assume that is the Max Jaw Opening.
Best regards,
Scott
classicJackets
Well-known member
The columbian is easy but haven't been able to find much at all on the Champion
Doug
wild cowboy
Banned
your assumptions are correct!
and this is not matching any Morgan vise, so with that ~100mm jaw width, this is really seeming foreign at this point, but still quite desirable, I would value it at $75 or more in its current condition if there are no cracks or repairs (welds) anywhere on it, and the slide has not been hammered on as an anvil, causing it to mushroom.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
i'm in the process of moving and organizing my shop so not exactly sure where the Standard vise i own is at the moment. i'll try to get you those measurements when i find it which might be a few days or more.
i'm not entirely sure the main screw of mine is the original one since it sticks out beyond the slide about 3/4 of an inch. that said i bought it from a 85 year old Boeing machinist that really took care of his tools and was pretty handy and this was his only vise.
good luck in your search and shoot me a PM in a few days if i don't post my findings on your thread.
i'm not entirely sure the main screw of mine is the original one since it sticks out beyond the slide about 3/4 of an inch. that said i bought it from a 85 year old Boeing machinist that really took care of his tools and was pretty handy and this was his only vise.
good luck in your search and shoot me a PM in a few days if i don't post my findings on your thread.
wild cowboy
Banned
Here is the biggest reason I am having doubts whether this vise is USA made, I have measured a lot of jaw widths of USA-made vises in my day, and except for those with worn sides of the jaws, I cannot remember a vise not being right at the specified jaw width, whether it was 3.5 inches, 4 inches, 8 inches or whatever.
If this is a foreign vise (not necessarily a bad thing) it would explain why this brand is essentially unheard of here on GJ amongst 1000's of vise collectors, some owning several hundred vises, and definitely the largest repository of obscure vise knowledge in the world!
If this is a foreign vise (not necessarily a bad thing) it would explain why this brand is essentially unheard of here on GJ amongst 1000's of vise collectors, some owning several hundred vises, and definitely the largest repository of obscure vise knowledge in the world!
GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
I sent my E Mail yesterday. at 6:20 AM. Never heard back, sorry it's sold, the ad was just deleted. I am glad you got it and have taken an interest in it. Part of the fun is trying to find info on the old vises.
GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
The columbian is easy but haven't been able to find much at all on the Champion
Doug
I see you have been to Asheville to visit Dwayne.
classicJackets
Well-known member
GETRIDAONE - yes! haha i went up there Tuesday night. Got there a little after dark which was too bad cause it seemed like he had a lot of cool stuff. little bit of a drive from me (Greenville sc) but it was fun.
You in the area?
You in the area?
GetRidAOne,
My first email to him was about 1:30 in the morning. After meeting him I think it is very possible that who he picked to call might have been a completely random event. Ha!
The gentleman's story was that it belonged to a family member who had been a "Circle Track Racer" and had used the vise in his shop as a tool for his car repairs. He said that this family member was about 11 years older than him. The seller had a big white beard and I was trying to guess his age since that might be a clue to the vise's age based on the other information. I would guess the seller to be around 70 but he may just have been "high mileage".
I think it is reasonable to assume his relative's racing days would be a relatively young man's activity. If the seller was 70ish and his relative was about a decade older, that puts a birth date in the early to mid 30's and racing in the 50's to early 60's.
Conjecture to be sure but, if so, the vise was acquired in the late 50's or so.
The only other information was the seller indicated he had recently come to Georgia from North Dakota. When I was futilely searching the internet for information on the vise after the purchase yesterday, Google had a link to a deleted, non-craigslist ad posted on January 28, 2011 by someone in Minot, ND. The ad was gone but Google displayed the following in the search info:
My cousin was a NoDak racer and used during the years he raced. The only markings I seen were , 4 Standard Vise. I'm gessing about a 1960 classic or "50's". I Googled "NoDak racing" and found it is a race track in Minot, ND.
If the information I've gleaned is reliable, I'm postulating that the vise is at least 50 years old - older if acquired used which might be a reasonable assumption - and was obtained - new or used - in North Dakota.
I drove across North Dakota in the late 70's. I was traveling from Indiana to my first post-college job at Boeing in Seattle, WA. Other than vast expanses of empty space, there was the Minot Air Force base. Wikipedia indicates that this base opened in 1957.
I'm not doubting the "foreign vise" theory. Wild Cowboy's points are well taken. However, I was thinking why would a foreign vise have English lettering "4 Standard Vise" on the side. Is that sort of thing normal for a foreign vise?
This along with the fact that, based on my travels in 1977, North Dakota in the 50's would seem to be more isolated from foreign influence/products than anywhere else in the USA.
However, Minot AFB is the wild card. While it serves as a source for a surplus - presumably domestic - vise as the result of the construction winding down, it is equally possible that a foreign vise was brought here by people that had traveled all over the world. These people arrived in North Dakota just about the time this vise was allegedly acquired.
Interesting stuff!
Best regards,
Scott
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GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
His father buys that stuff up in PA and brings it here to sell. I am 30 miles north of Atlanta. I have been to Asheville and bought probably a dozen vises from Dwayne and another member ( Kuko ). I am going Saturday morning to pick up another one from Asheville. I have been to Greenville, Spartanburg, and Charlotte to pick up vises. I will go up Hwy 25 from Greenville to Asheville and I hope the fall colors are nice.
sbosecker, There is always a story with a vise. I will ask "where did it come from" It is interesting how far some of them have traveled and they ended up with it.
classicJackets
Well-known member
The fall colors were certainly nice on Tuesday, I imagine they aren't going anywhere too soon. I miss the Atlanta area but I do like that there are woods with great color everywhere I go and no yard work to be done! 
Coming down from PA explains the trailer in the yard, too. That's a pretty good little side business he's got going. Still trying to figure out where I'll mount/ what I'll do with mine at my parents' house..
Scott, that's an awesome story. Makes you wonder what kind of stuff that vise has produced and where it all ended up, too!
Doug
Coming down from PA explains the trailer in the yard, too. That's a pretty good little side business he's got going. Still trying to figure out where I'll mount/ what I'll do with mine at my parents' house..
Scott, that's an awesome story. Makes you wonder what kind of stuff that vise has produced and where it all ended up, too!
Doug
wild cowboy
Banned
yeah, and so does a 32mm wrench - try it!
Wild Cowboy,
Ha! I considered that but I don't have a 32mm wrench. I did do the math and 32mm is close and it's bigger so I'm sure it would work.
However, I just came back from the shop. I've taken the vise apart hoping to find some more clues.
The Center Base Bolt is a 3/4-10 thread.
The Swivel Lock Down Bolt is 7/16-14 thread. I know this could be a replacement item.
There is a number cast into the base. It's either 130 or 730.
That's all I see.
Best regards,
Scott
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I am going to take a stab at it and say this IS a Morgan made vise. It may be an early lighter weight model like the Morgan Star vises. A Star 4A 4" vise is 45 pounds. The swivel base kit for a Morgan 3" 130 AND a Star 4A is part number 130S. And a Morgan Chicago 135 vise sold in August on Ebay has an identical appearing swivel base with a "135" in the same area as this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-MORGAN-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Probably the last piece of evidence...
The Main Nut has "30D" stamped on one side and what looks like a "B" enclosed in a circle on the other side. The "B" could be a "3" but I'm pretty confident, as I moved the Main Nut around to catch the light that it is a "B".
The Main Nut also has what appears to be very small patches of orange paint. Pretty confident that it isn't rust. Perhaps some original paint that has survived to today.
Scott
The Main Nut has "30D" stamped on one side and what looks like a "B" enclosed in a circle on the other side. The "B" could be a "3" but I'm pretty confident, as I moved the Main Nut around to catch the light that it is a "B".
The Main Nut also has what appears to be very small patches of orange paint. Pretty confident that it isn't rust. Perhaps some original paint that has survived to today.
Scott
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BlueBolt,
I just finished posting the Vise Main Nut images and found your post.
The internet is the greatest thing in the world! I go to your eBay link and find the vise base with the number. Well it's stamped instead of cast... Hmmm...
Then I see the picture of the static part of the vise with the Main Nut removed. In the dovetail there is a clear shot of a hole where the Base Bolt would be. My vise doesn't have that ...or does it.
I return to my shop with an awl and probe the inner recess of the Base Bolt hole and ...the awl punches through! I jabbed away to remove most of the crud out of the hole into the dovetail area. I'll have to throw this part back into the parts washer and get that hole cleaned out.
I have a couple of before and after shots but it needs to be cleaned out better before it will be clear in a picture.
Best regards,
Scott
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Good evidence!
As I mentioned I believe your Standard vise is a Morgan made version of the Morgan Star Vise. I so happen to have a Morgan 4" Star stationary base vise. So I popped out to the garage, removed the pin and slid out the main nut. Low and behold it has a 30D on it!
No B on the other side, a NF and a D1 though.
Can't explain your 3 7/8 jaw width, mine measures out at 4"even
wild cowboy
Banned
if it is not a Morgan, the company that made it certainly "borrowed" at lot of the design from Morgan.
I feel pretty confident that some Morgan U-jaw faces would fit it, but perhaps not flush on the ends if it is neither 3.5 nor 4"
I feel pretty confident that some Morgan U-jaw faces would fit it, but perhaps not flush on the ends if it is neither 3.5 nor 4"
