Can anyone identify this vise

[drivesitfar]

it was too cold to work in the garage tonight so guess what i just found on Craigslist in San Mateo while sitting in my warm chair? a Standard 4 vise for $100 that looks like it's jaws are a bit under 4 inches too. hard to say from the angle so i'll let you judge the pictures for yourselves.

 

[sbosecker]

it was too cold to work in the garage tonight so guess what i just found on Craigslist in San Mateo while sitting in my warm chair? a Standard 4 vise for $100 that looks like it's jaws are a bit under 4 inches too. hard to say from the angle so i'll let you judge the pictures for yourselves.

DrivesItFar,

Writing from Starbucks again. I'd rather be doing this than dealing with cold weather. Ha!

Thank you for sharing that. I've picked up some grey paint for my vise so this vise looks much like I think mine will in the near future.

How very odd that this vise also appears to have the missing 1/8" jaw width.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

The great internet drought of 2014 ended today at about noon.

The past couple of days I got the paint off the vise parts. I mostly used an angle grinder with a Knot Wire Cup Brush but I used my sand blasting cabinet for the last areas the Wire Cup Brush couldn't get to.

This evening I hit the vise parts with a coat of Rust-oleum primer. I'm going to give it 48 hours and then I'll spray a coat of Machinery Gray on the parts.

A couple of hours ago I sent a text to the person with the Standard Vise Craigslist Ad in San Mateo, CA. I just asked if he/she would mind sharing information on the vise.

No response so far.

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

The San Mateo Craigslist seller of the 4 Standard Vise has not responded to my text. The ad for the vise seems to have been removed so maybe the new owner will show up here some day to find out more about this vise.

Meanwhile, back in Peachtree City GA, I got a coat of Rust-oleum Dark Machinery Grey paint on my vise today. After it had dried long enough that it could be handled safely, I put it together to see how it looked. The Vise Screw & handle are still in need of some polishing and I haven't received the new insert screws yet but the vise is coming along.

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

When I took apart the 4 Standard Vise, I found that the Vise's Swivel Bolt Hole was seriously off center. At the time I was intent on getting the vise cleaned up and painted so I didn't mention it here.

After I had painted the vise and reassembled it, I was rotating the vise on its base. That's when it was really noticeable that the base and the vise were not concentric. It's not awful but it's not concentric.

I would be curious what DrivesItFar's vise does when he swivels it on its base.

Scott

 

[classicJackets]

That looks excellent! The off center hole would bother me to no end. Does it still function as it should..?
Doug

 

[sbosecker]

That looks excellent! The off center hole would bother me to no end. Does it still function as it should..?
Doug

Doug,

Thanks. There's still a bit of work to be done but it's been cleaned up and it has a coat of paint on it to help it to last another 50+ years.

When I got the vise it didn't have a Side Lock Nut but was locked down to the base with a square nut and a lock washer. The position it was locked down at was where the vise matched up with the base correctly.

Now that I've put it all together, when I "swivel" the vise there is some mismatch between it and the base. Depending where the vise is in its orbit, that mismatch can vary from nothing to maybe an 1/8 of an inch. I didn't measure it.

So the vise works fine, it just looks a little odd if it is swiveled.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[drivesitfar]

SB: sorry i had to put the vises back in the cabinet before taking them apart. the swivel on the Morgan 130 was seized so it will need a bit of coaxing to get it swiveling or apart. my Standard seems to swivel fine, but i'm pretty sure that the screw is from another vise.

here's what i moved today instead of working on vises.

keep up the search and hopefully you will find answers and also get your swivel working like it should again. i'll get back to it in a few days, but we have no rain in the forecast for a few more days then weeks of rain so making hay now moving stuff.

 

[sbosecker]

SB:
here's what i moved today instead of working on vises.

I think I was doing a search for "welding table" and came across your little adventure regarding this item.

Yes, I think you best take advantage of any clear days you have. I lived and worked not too far away from you in the late 70's and recall the weather to be rather dreary in the winter. In fact, I stored some of my stuff for a few months in a house about 2 blocks from you when I joined the Navy in 1979.

Good luck on your project!

Best regards,

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

An update on the distance between Jaw Insert holes.

I finally figured out a way to get what I believe will be a pretty accurate measurement of the distance between the two Insert Hole centers.

I threaded in a couple of 5/16" bolts as far as I could [the ones I had on hand were too long to go in all the way] and then measured distance from the outside of each hex head using Dial Calipers. Then I subtracted the width of one of the bolt's hex head. I came up a value within a few thousands of 2-3/16 inches between the centers of the holes.

Pictures attached... although the flash played havoc with the dial on the calipers, I think this will illustrate the technique. I don't know why it took me so long to think of this approach.

Scott

 

[bluebolt]

I still think that is made by Morgan in the Chicago era. I could not find a single Chicago era Star vise just Aurora and Milwaukee. 2 other vises apparently made by Morgan are Mercury and Metro.

 

[sbosecker]

I still think that is made by Morgan in the Chicago era. I could not find a single Chicago era Star vise just Aurora and Milwaukee. 2 other vises apparently made by Morgan are Mercury and Metro.

Bluebolt,

I've just sent an email to Milwaukee Tool & Equipment's sales department. The point of the email was to see if the sales folks thought their 4-inch Jaw Inserts and their Side Lock Nut would fit the 4 Standard Vise.

I also sent a few pictures and information about some of the matching parts to see if that might help with determining the origin of this vise.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

Milwaukee Tool & Equipment kindly sent a pdf file of the dimensions of their Jaw Faces. The file was too big to upload to Garage Journal as a single pdf file so I've separated it into 3 files:

Flat

T-Shape

U-Shape

At first glace, it doesn't look like a Morgan Jaw Face will work on the 4 Standard Vise but I need to check more carefully.

DrivesItFar, should these files be included in the Vise Repair 101 thread?

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

Here's the text of Milwaukee Tool & Equipment's reply to my query about the 4 Standard Vise:

The Morgan Vise Company was started in the 20's. We purchased the company and moved it to Milwaukee Wisconsin in February 1970. The documentation we received was very limited. To the best of our knowledge The Morgan Vise Company never made a vise with the word "standard" on it. But the could have. Your pictures look similar to our vise and some of the numbers even match, but we have no idea if any parts are interchangeable.

No one in your area stocks these parts. I can sell parts directly to you using a credit card. You may return the parts prepaid freight for full credit on the cost of the parts.

Scott

 

[bluebolt]

I think you should add the info to the vise repair thread. Sometimes people have to adapt other brand jaws to their vise. I for example am trying to come up with jaws for my Reed/Columbian 8" vise. I now know the distance on the Morgan 8" is too close together (5.5") since the old screws were 5" apart. I am probably going to use Yost jaws that have 6" between screws.

 

[Leadberry]

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/the-shop-vise-not-vice.106056/

FYI, the OP in the thread linked above has one of these vises, and refers to it as an "American Standard." While the thread is old, his profile showed his most recent activity was today, so you may be able to get some info out of him on the vise. He did link to GJ, so I don't know if he's a member here or not.

 

[sbosecker]

I think you should add the info to the vise repair thread. Sometimes people have to adapt other brand jaws to their vise. I for example am trying to come up with jaws for my Reed/Columbian 8" vise. I now know the distance on the Morgan 8" is too close together (5.5") since the old screws were 5" apart. I am probably going to use Yost jaws that have 6" between screws.

Bluebolt,

Does one just add material anywhere in the Vise Repair 101 or would DrivesItFar edit it into a particular location?

Best regards,

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/the-shop-vise-not-vice.106056/

FYI, the OP in the thread linked above has one of these vises, and refers to it as an "American Standard." While the thread is old, his profile showed his most recent activity was today, so you may be able to get some info out of him on the vise. He did link to GJ, so I don't know if he's a member here or not.

Leadberry,

He/She uses the handle "Blue Dog" on the Race-DeZert site...

...and there is a Blue Dog listed among the members of GarageJournal.

The profile here seems to match the profile on the other site. His/Her last activity here was 9 Jul 2012.

Thanks for the information. I'll see if I can get some information on his/her Standard Vise via the other site.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[bluebolt]

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/the-shop-vise-not-vice.106056/

FYI, the OP in the thread linked above has one of these vises, and refers to it as an "American Standard." While the thread is old, his profile showed his most recent activity was today, so you may be able to get some info out of him on the vise. He did link to GJ, so I don't know if he's a member here or not.

I think there may be some confusion between American Standard and American Scale vises. I have seen at least one American Scale called an American Standard even though the picture clearly showed American Scale lettering. I have seen pictures of several Standard lettered 4" vises, most of them swivel base but there was one stationary base with the lip up front so he base was not flat.

 

[Leadberry]

Leadberry,

He/She uses the handle "Blue Dog" on the Race-DeZert site...

...and there is a Blue Dog listed among the members of GarageJournal.

The profile here seems to match the profile on the other site. His/Her last activity here was 9 Jul 2012.

Thanks for the information. I'll see if I can get some information on his/her Standard Vise via the other site.

Best regards,

Scott

Good luck!

I think there may be some confusion between American Standard and American Scale vises. I have seen at least one American Scale called an American Standard even though the picture clearly showed American Scale lettering. I have seen pictures of several Standard lettered 4" vises, most of them swivel base but there was one stationary base with the lip up front so he base was not flat.

I'd noticed that as well. I had actually searched for an American Scale "Standard" vise, but came up with nothing. Nevertheless, I figured it couldn't hurt to toss the info out there...it only takes one person with good info!

 

[drivesitfar]

SB: sure post the Morgan information over on the Vise Repair 101 thread. their company address, phone # and other information if you have it too. It might get to be a bookkeeping nightmare trying to put all the company's information on post #2 where we've been compiling a huge list of vise companies.

at least if someone looks up Morgan phone # on the Vise Repair 101 thread they hopefully can find it.

 

[sbosecker]

SB: sure post the Morgan information over on the Vise Repair 101 thread. their company address, phone # and other information if you have it too. It might get to be a bookkeeping nightmare trying to put all the company's information on post #2 where we've been compiling a huge list of vise companies.

at least if someone looks up Morgan phone # on the Vise Repair 101 thread they hopefully can find it.

DrivesItFar,

I added the information and Vise Face (Vise Jaw Insert) pdf files to Page 28 of Vise Repair 101.

I also added a pdf file that Wild Cowboy sent me that had Morgan Vise Part information.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/threads/the-shop-vise-not-vice.106056/

FYI, the OP in the thread linked above has one of these vises, and refers to it as an "American Standard." ...

Leadberry,

I was not aware that there was a Vise produced by a company called "American Standard" so, when I read this, my initial assumption was that "American" referred to the Country of Origin.

Blue Dog seems active on the other web site. I have joined that site and left a message with Blue Dog. If I get a response, perhaps that will clarify the "American Standard" remark as well as provide additional details on the 4 Standard Vise.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

DrivesItFar,

When the weather returns to normal Pacific NW winter weather (i.e. crappy), would you mind checking what the thread is on your Standard Vise's Lock Down Nut/Stud?

The sales guy at Milwaukee Tool & Equipment Company let me know today that the thread on the Lock Down Nut for the 130 series (and other large vises) is 1/2-13. My Side Lock Stud/Bolt is 7/16-14.

Mine could be a previous-user replacement. It looks like it could be a carriage bolt with a flattened off head.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[bluebolt]

Leadberry,

I was not aware that there was a Vise produced by a company called "American Standard" so, when I read this, my initial assumption was that "American" referred to the Country of Origin.

Blue Dog seems active on the other web site. I have joined that site and left a message with Blue Dog. If I get a response, perhaps that will clarify the "American Standard" remark as well as provide additional details on the 4 Standard Vise.

Best regards,

Scott

He also has a Mercury 4 as well. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1580228#post1580228

 

[NJ Marty]

It is made by Morgan. Almost identical to the 130 I got yesterday. Here are a few pictures of the base and nut.

 

[autopts]

I'm almost sure, like the "Mercury " vise, its a Morgan knockoff. I had both a 4" Mercury and in went into the Morgan 140 however I believe mine had the Morgan 145 body with 4" jaws. I have now a No 45 Morgan and a 140. Measure the throat and I'll check mine. PM me, I'm not on much.

 

[sbosecker]

It is made by Morgan. Almost identical to the 130 I got yesterday. Here are a few pictures of the base and nut.

NJ Marty,

That's very interesting! If Morgan didn't make the Standard Vise, it certainly seems like they at least made some of the parts for whoever did.

One thing that's interesting is that DrivesItFar's Morgan 130's base (page 4 of this thread) is a little different than yours. The feet are "pointier" on his.

Your 130 has "Morgan Chicago" on the casting... DrivesItFar, does your 130 have "Morgan Chicago" or is it from a different era?

Best regards,

Scott

 

[NJ Marty]

Here are a few more pictures, It looks like the bottom is stamped 130L.

 

[NJ Marty]

Thread specs are 1/2-14

 

[drivesitfar]

SB: here's more pictures of my Morgan 130. sorry it has dropped down on the list with a few big projects and Thanksgiving as far as taking it and my Standard 4 vises apart.

 

[sbosecker]

Thread specs are 1/2-14

NJ Marty,

Any chance that's 1/2-13? I'm not an expert but I think 1/2-14 would be an "odd" combination.

Milwaukee Tool & Equipment said the thread spec should be 1/2-13 for the 130 Vise's Swivel Lock Nut. I'm pretty confident, based on this information, that the Swivel Lock Nut and bolt would work for the Standard Vise.

I do think it's interesting that the Standard Vice appears to have used a two piece Stud & Wedge as opposed to the single piece item the Morgan 130 has.

Thank you very much for going to the trouble to do this.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[sbosecker]

SB: here's more pictures of my Morgan 130. sorry it has dropped down on the list with a few big projects and Thanksgiving as far as taking it and my Standard 4 vises apart.

DrivesItFar,

No apology necessary. I appreciate you taking the time to fiddle with this.

It's interesting that your Morgan 130 Base's feet are shaped differently than NJ Marty's Morgan 130.

Best regards,

Scott

 

[bluebolt]

Thanks Marty. Now we need to tear down a swivel 4" Mercury and a swivel 4" Metro for more DNA LOL.

 

[sbosecker]

Leadberry,

He/She uses the handle "Blue Dog" on the Race-DeZert site...

...and there is a Blue Dog listed among the members of GarageJournal.

The profile here seems to match the profile on the other site. His/Her last activity here was 9 Jul 2012.

Thanks for the information. I'll see if I can get some information on his/her Standard Vise via the other site.

Best regards,

Scott

I engaged Blue Dog at Race-DeZert web site in an on-line conversation regarding the 4 Standard Vise that he had displayed on that site.

The condensed version is that he doesn't have the vise any longer so he's unable to do any comparisons regarding jaw width, etc. I tried to gently ask what he remembered about the history of the vise but I didn't get an answer to that.

I didn't want to badger him by repeating the same question and, since he doesn't have the vise any longer, there didn't seem to be much else to discuss.

So other than the picture of the vise and the knowledge that there's another one of these vises "out there", that's about all that came from that.

Scott

 

[TauntDevil]

Hello all.

Not sure if this is a thread to ask or if its specifically towards the original posters request but I thought, instead of making a new thread, that it would be better to post here.

I have had this vise for quite sometime and have yet to purchase new jaws for it.
I actually plan on cleaning it up soon (you guys made me want too) but just curious what brand it is.

 

[jakemac]

There's a lot about that vise that screams generic chinese import to me. I hope I'm wrong, because jaws may be hard to find if I'm right. Sorry.

 

[wild cowboy]

maybe not Chinese, but definitely foreign - I would sell it and get a classic USA built vise, then order jaws!

 

[sbosecker]

Another sighting in the wild of a 4 Standard Vise on eBay today.

 

[sbosecker]

The gentleman selling the 4 Standard Vise on eBay (previous post) didn't have much history to add. He seems to be in the business of acquiring "old stuff" and selling it on eBay. This was just one of many items he was selling.

He was kind enough to take the time to measure the jaw width and let me know that his was also 3-7/8 inches wide. He indicated that it was a "barn find" in upstate New York. No additional information was available.

Scott