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Can I MIG without tanks?

CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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I have a MIG welder (Miller 250) but yet learned to weld. Been reading everything I can get my hands on, but it's a slow learning curve when you're busy with other stuff.

I don't feel comfortable hooking up bottles of explosive gasses when I don't know what the heck I'm doing, so I'm wondering if I can purchase a particular type of wire and practice welding without the gasses. Just want to see if I can stick two pieces of steel together, then go from there...

:headscrat
 
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rickairmedic

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Mancaves C25 is not an explosive gas . To answer your question though yes you can buy flux cose wire to use in your mig . Make sure you set the polarity right in your machine for flux core .


Rick
 

35mastr

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Mancaves,Just get the bottle. That machine is already set up for it. If you run flux core. You are going to end up contaminating your liner with that junk.
 

35mastr

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No,That machine will need a spool gun for aluminium and another bottle of 100% Argon.
 

35mastr

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Dont try to run aluminum wire through your liner. It will just get all kinked up and make a messy birds nest right at the feed rollers.
 

frednoah

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Nah...I just pick up stuff and start going. That's how I learn. :shocking:

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

So, will the C25 work for both steel and aluminum? I know you use different type wires for either, but not sure about the gas.

From what I've been told, you want straight argon mig aluminum
 

Zrexxer

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Nah...I just pick up stuff and start going. That's how I learn. :shocking:
Well your learning curve will be short if you insist on blundering around doing stupid things like running oxygen and acetylene through a MIG machine.

So, will the C25 work for both steel and aluminum? I know you use different type wires for either, but not sure about the gas.
No, it won't. You will need pure Argon for aluminum.
 

35mastr

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I just notice that you arte from NJ. So that place may even be close to you.
I know that its in NJ as it takes about 3 days to get my orders from them.
 

diesel research

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relatively low risk of explosion. They are called "inert gases" because they are highly unreactive. You are creating an artificial "atmosphere" that is almost oxygen free. When dealing with welding conditions, oxygen can quickly react with steel causing problems, so these gases blanket the steel and prevent oxygen from contacting the weld surface. Also does various things to promote or control the arc, since as we know, low voltage electric arcs have trouble in oxygen environments.


Argon is colorless, odorless, and nontoxic as a solid, liquid, and gas. Argon is inert under most conditions and forms no confirmed stable compounds at room temperature.

There are several different reasons argon is used in particular applications:

* An inert gas is needed. In particular, argon is the cheapest alternative when nitrogen is not sufficiently inert.
* Low thermal conductivity is required.
* The electronic properties (ionization and/or the emission spectrum) are necessary.

Incandescent lights are filled with argon, to preserve the filaments at high temperature from oxidation. It is used for the specific way it ionizes and emits light, such as in plasma globes

Argon is used in some high-temperature industrial processes, where ordinarily non-reactive substances become reactive. For example, an argon atmosphere is used in graphite electric furnaces to prevent the graphite from burning.

more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielding_gas
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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No,That machine will need a spool gun for aluminium and another bottle of 100% Argon.

I have a spool gun. Purchased the machine from someone who used it exclusively for aluminum. My idea is to practice on steel first, then work my way up to aluminum. What attachments do I need to weld steel?
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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Can I MIG without tanks?
You sure can and very successfully as well.
Don't worry about them naysayers that insist you need gas.
Get coreflux wire and anti splatter spray and go for it.
Easy as pie to learn too.

That's what I've heard. I'm never going to be a professional welder and I would hire one for important projects.

However, once in awhile (like now), I need something small welded (e.g. patching a 1" crack in a header flange). I don't need to be certified for aerospace welding, just need to fill a gap or attach a bracket on occasion.
 
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Heavy Metal Doctor

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Here' my 2 cents on the subject:
Some years back when my shop was busy as heck, we subbed out a job to a "pro" welder guy to put in some 7GA sheet steel on a tuck body - he worked out in the lot out of a worktruck with gas driven mig. He used flux core wire 'cause he was working outside (the reason he gave us, anyway) and I must say we where disappointed in the look of it when he was finished. It wasn't a big deal, structurally it was good work, but it was noticable that the beads didn't look as nice - had spatter all over them - would'nt matter if it hadn't been all over the sides of the truck and made it obviuos what was repaired even after a full repaint. I wished we'd had the time for me to just do it myself and have it look as good as factory work.

I also have a spoolgun for aluminum (35A maybe - can't remember exactly)- works great, but you don't have the same control of heat like you would with Tig - I find you have to startoff slow 'till the work gets hot and then make sure you stop before it gets too hot and blows right through (thats harder to judge on aluminum, too). On thick stuff, I go so far as to preheat the work with torch to even things out - other wise you get and obviuos "cold" bead laying on top of the work, or else a giant puddle at that end till it's hot enough to really burn in. Also, at the end of a bead, hold the nozzle at the same spot you would while welding, don't just let off the trigger completely and pull the gun away. Release the trigger enough to stop the wire, but still in far enough to blow gas to allow the argon to sheild the bead 'till it cools - keeps the air from contaminating the bead / making it ugly. From what I have experienced, the spool gun will get the job done to put some aluminum together, but I don't think it's possible to get the perfect "row of nickels" look form Mig'n AL - that takes Tig (but maybe there some expert out there better than me!).
 

35mastr

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OK, so it's C25 for steel or flux-core wire. If I remove the (aluminum) spool gun, what do I need to handle the steel wire and/or gas?

C25 for regular mig wire only. No gas at all for flux core. If you remove the spool gun. You need to put on the regular gun. Got any pics of exactly what you have?
 

drive em

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I worked on the border fence between El Paso, Texas and Juarez, Mexico a few years ago. It was all done with flux core wire feed welders. The welds come out really nice. When you use flux core wire, it really isn't MIG anymore because you don't have the "G", which stands for gas. You also DO NOT have to use the 75/25 mix gas, you can weld with straight CO2 (carbon dioxide).
 
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CUSTOMMANCAVES.COM

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C25 for regular mig wire only. No gas at all for flux core. If you remove the spool gun. You need to put on the regular gun. Got any pics of exactly what you have?

The "regular" gun is a separate piece? I only have the spool gun. Not mine, but looks something like this:

Spoolmate_200.jpg
 

35mastr

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That spool gun you show is set up to run gas. That machine is set up to run gas. Why would you want to run flux core? It leaves spatter all over your work. Welding headers or anything like that is going to look like ****.

Order up a mig gun. Screw the regulator into your bottle and have at it. You be alot happier with the end results of your work.

Flux core is real popular for in the field welding. Like outside where the gas would get blown off the work. Thats why they use it for fences and other outdoor field work.
 

35mastr

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Got it. Those guns shown will work with/without gas (in case I decide to switch between gas & flux core)? I'm guessing by your response that I can't load up my current spool gun with steel wire... :headscrat

They will work with or with out gas. Never tried to run steel wire or flux through a spool gun. That gun you have is real expensive to replace. So I would not ruin it. Last time I bought one it was around 800.00.
 

diesel research

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Can I MIG without tanks?
You sure can and very successfully as well.
Don't worry about them naysayers that insist you need gas.
Get coreflux wire and anti splatter spray and go for it.
Easy as pie to learn too.

MIG is specifically gas related, as in metal inert gas welding. Solid wire.

FCAW would be flux core arc welding. Tubular wire. Even with FCAW, gas is sometimes used in addition. On the other hand with mig, gas is not gone without.

Try to avoid fcaw on autobody work and thinner materials. It can work, so can jb weld. Does not mean either are most appropriate. A rusting fence post is one thing, a rusting quarter panel is a completely different thing.
 

z28snksknr

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I have flux-core welded rusty fenders and the work looks just as good after metal finishing as any gas-MIG welded patch I've seen. I'm going to keep doing it too. :bounce:

As much knowledge is available to tap here, sometimes it's better to not overwhelm a beginner with information vs. convincing him he won't die when he actually goes out and turns the machine on. Just sayin.

:beer:
 

R6 Racer

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Man Caves, I have just started to weld. I did have a small amount of experience with A.O. welding from about 40 years ago. So basically I was starting from scratch, much like you.
Maybe I can give you some incite from a fellow rookie's point of view? I know some of my terms will be off but hopefully it might help?
So hear goes...
Mig = Inert gas welding, using your machine with solid wire & a "gas" that mixes Argon & Co2 & not explosive!
Flux cure welding = using your machine with a different type of wire that has "flux" core inside of it & no gas.
The difference being that with Mig the "gas" keeps the area directly surrounding your weld "clean" so that the metal can bond together better. Flux core welding, needing no gas uses the "flux" to keep that area "clean".

You seem to only have a spool gun (pics of everything you currently have will definitely help everyone here to help you much better) from what I understand that is a expensive piece that is used to weld aluminum. Inside your machine (box) is where you put your wire normally (for welding steel) if you try to put aluminum in the box it will not work threw a normal gun (which it sounds like you don't have) since it is not stiff enough to be pushed threw from the box to your weld. Apparently you might damage your $$$ gun if you use steel wire in it so you will need to get the right gun for that.

Flux core welding leaves a lot of "splatter" around your completed weld. meaning more cleanup work to make it look good. Mig eliminates most all of that "splatter" meaning a lot less cleanup work. Mig welding in an open area (parking lot, backyard, open field, etc.) is next to impossible because wind will blow the (Mig)Gas away from your welding leaving you a non "clean" area to try & weld in. That is where flux core welding is much better. No gas for the wind to blow away & the "flux" keeps the area "clean".

My suggestions are
1) buy a "regular" gun (not as $$$ as the one you have now)
2) get a bottle of gas (your machine is already set up for it) I found using gas made it easier to learn & it's NOT explosive!
3)READ, READ, READ... go to all the sites suggested previously on this thread. It WILL help you save time & money
4) as for the welding store guys... when you go to buy a bottle , tell them you want to buy one, then ask all your questions before you fork over the cash... they will answer!

There is probably a lot I left out, correct me guys if I did, but hopefully I helped a bit.
OH YA there are a lot of video clips on the net that were a great help to me. Use them, definitely a good use of your time spent on your learning curve.

Good luck
Steve
 

uhohjim

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C25 for regular mig wire only. No gas at all for flux core. If you remove the spool gun. You need to put on the regular gun. Got any pics of exactly what you have?

Millermatic 250 has a provison for a spool gun already built in you don't have to change anything......also has gun on demand whichever one you pull the trigger on is the one that works...........and no I don't think you can use both at the same time..Jim
 

Farmallgray

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Something else nobody has yet mentioned about flux core is it's about 3 to 4x the price of regular wire. That could probably eat up the savings of not using gas. I have only used flux core a few times and wasn't real happy with the results.
 

t100

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Millermatic 250 has a provison for a spool gun already built in you don't have to change anything......also has gun on demand whichever one you pull the trigger on is the one that works...........and no I don't think you can use both at the same time..Jim

the later model 251/252 have direct hook up.

not on a MM250, you need a 10-pin module to hook up a spool gun. Miller part# 043084, it's about $250
 
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