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Can I remove these columns?

BrShootr

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Utah
I have a back porch that has 3 columns. One about 1ft from the corner wall, the other two are 7ft apart each. I am fairly confident the one on the outside corner of the otherwise unsupported roof is weight bearing, but how about the other 2?

I can wiggle the 2 columns closest to the house, however the one on the outside corner is solid. I lifted the siding on the endcap, it's a wood beam being held by the columns, not a steel I beam. All 3 columns look the same where they connect to the roof, the three columns have different attachments to the patio floor, pictures for columns 1, 2, and 3 attached.
 

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readhead

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Durango, Co.
Those were very common structural elements back in the 50's and 60's. They are probably load bearing. Yes you can remove them but plan on putting something back or replacing the beam with something larger so you can span a longer distance.
 
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BrShootr

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Utah
Those were very common structural elements back in the 50's and 60's. They are probably load bearing.

I was hoping that because they are across two separate concrete sections that was not the case. Time to consult with a structural engineer, I guess...
 

pattenp

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It all depends on the beam type, size and the allowable span for the load. Ballpark on the span, double 2X6 with no story above is up to 6' span, a double 2x8 is up to 8' span.
 

chaosracing

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Kutztown, Pa
Can you get a picture of the gable end of the house showing the over hang? Willing to bet your trusses run out there from the main house. Without removing the metal covering the beam, it would be hard to say. You possibly could remove 2 of them, but would definitely need the one on the corner. Maybe even one in the middle. Wont know till you would expose the beam though. The one closest to the house was probably put in as a decorative one to balance the look.
 
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BrShootr

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Utah
chaosracing, I can take a picture of the gable end tomorrow, but you do bring up a good point: it is all dependent on the structure of the roof. The patio is part of an extension to the house.

If you look at the overview picture, you can see the original brick wall and the green extension. They extended the roof by making the roof higher to keep it centered with the new width of the house. Much like in this picture:
hqdefault.jpg
 

readhead

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When I was just starting out as a framer in the early seventies you could still buy those "supports" in various lengths at the lumber yard. About the same time there was starting to be a lot of awareness about seismic design and the fancy posts faded away. The house I'm in now had one just like yours on the front porch. The house was built in '53. I have since replaced it.
 
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BrShootr

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When I was just starting out as a framer in the early seventies you could still buy those "supports" in various lengths at the lumber yard. About the same time there was starting to be a lot of awareness about seismic design and the fancy posts faded away. The house I'm in now had one just like yours on the front porch. The house was built in '53. I have since replaced it.

That's interesting. This house was build in '56 and the addition was done sometime in the 70's (flower hangers everywhere).

Thanks for the info everyone! I'll make sure to post results of our renovation if it ever comes to fruition. Weight-bearing or not, I don't like rust when I see it.
 

Colin Len

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Long Beach CA
Similar to chaosracing - I'd be VERY surprised if you could remove all of them. Perhaps 1 but that's all I'd guess.

I had these at my house at replaced them with 4x4 redwood posts. It was a very straight forward process and I didn't consult an engineer.

Before:


After:


Are there similar designed houses in your neighborhood you can use as examples of how you can remove these and replace them with something else?
 
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BrShootr

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Utah
Similar to chaosracing - I'd be VERY surprised if you could remove all of them. Perhaps 1 but that's all I'd guess.

I had these at my house at replaced them with 4x4 redwood posts. It was a very straight forward process and I didn't consult an engineer.

Are there similar designed houses in your neighborhood you can use as examples of how you can remove these and replace them with something else?

Thanks so much for those images! My front porch is similar to yours and I was thinking of replacing my 4 columns with redwood as well. That looks so much better than I had envisioned!

For the back porch, I was hoping to be able to remove the middle column and the column closest to the hose. I would not dare remove them without an engineer approving the work for liability purposes.

My concern with wooden columns is the longevity and maintenance required. Especially in the back porch that leads to the driveway, where I have to use salt to keep snow slush from icing over - the back porch/driveway are on the north side of the house and are in shade all day long.
 

nolimits76

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For those of you just wanting to remove & replace the columns with something more to your aesthetic liking, be sure to put in temporary bracing supports prior to removing the existing braces so you don't have issues. Once you get the new braces in-place you can remove the temp braces.

Also, obviously make sure your new support columns are sufficient to carry loads.
 

b-boy

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Oct 2, 2013
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Buffalo NY
I had these on my old house. They are designed to be loa-bearing. Mione were actually sunk into the concrete.

I hated them. Beside looking terrible, they kept rusting. I was constantly painting them.

I replaced them with AL columns wrapped in white vinyl. It was a very easy process.
 
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Colin Len

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Long Beach CA
Thanks so much for those images! My front porch is similar to yours and I was thinking of replacing my 4 columns with redwood as well. That looks so much better than I had envisioned!

For the back porch, I was hoping to be able to remove the middle column and the column closest to the hose. I would not dare remove them without an engineer approving the work for liability purposes.

My concern with wooden columns is the longevity and maintenance required. Especially in the back porch that leads to the driveway, where I have to use salt to keep snow slush from icing over - the back porch/driveway are on the north side of the house and are in shade all day long.
Do you plan to do the work yourself? Personally, I think an engineer is way overboard for something like this. Unless you really want to remove as many as possible and might be on the edge of what's safe. There are all sorts of beam span tables you can find online for this stuff and those often have info about the uprights for them too. I found a lot of that online when I was looking at pergola design specs and requirements. I can't imagine 4x4's handling any lower load than those aluminum posts. In my case they only hold up the roof over the patio and aren't holding any load from the structure of the house so I know mine are fine.

I too am a bit worried about how the wood will weather. This is the 3rd redwood piece I have at my house - first was rough cut 2x12's I used to build a raised vegetable garden, second was 4S 2x6's I used to build a planter for herbs as well as some edging for the grass. I'm using Penofin on all of these pieces.
- The rough cut raised planters are now 2yrs old look just as they did when I first stained them except for the color becoming a little less bright.
- The 4S herb planter is a couple months shy of 2hrs old and the portion which is most exposed to the sun needs touching up. This wood soaked up a lot less Penofin than the rough cut lumber so I think that's why it already needs touch up.
- The front posts are only about a year old now and look perfect still. They don't get much sun so I think they'll last quite a long time.

One of the reasons I chose Penofin is that it's a stain/oil which means I should be able to re-apply just about anytime and the only prep is cleaning and maybe a very, very light sanding. If I'd used a poly or something like that it would be likely the old, weathered finish would need to be sanded off completely before refinishing. That's a lot of work I wasn't interested in. And of course there's always paint as an option too - means you could use doug fir as well which would be a big cost savings over redwood.

You'll have to check your local codes but around here you're required to have any wood posts like this sitting 1" above the surface to keep water off the bottom of the post. Most any post base on the market will already have this 1" standoff. Below is a link to the ones I used. There were cheaper options out there but IMO they look like ****. So I spent more and got these which are really simple and sleek looking.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson...lvanized-Concealed-Post-Base-CPT44Z/204842292

These were used to connect the posts to the beam on top, then I painted them matte black to match the post bases.
https://www.fastenersplus.com/Simps...igY1Du0ugBfiwcsPlGYLTHlp5lJoZurBoCf9MQAvD_BwE

As nolimits76 mentioned you definitely need braces in place before removing the old posts. We just used a bunch of 2x4's to support the beam while we removed the old posts and installed the new ones.
 
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