To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Can I use this wire for my lighting?

Frank

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
295
Location
Mesquite, TEXAS
I picked up 4 120v shop lights last week. Each one uses 2 F40 lights.

I have a role of wire that came with the house. "Type NM 12 -2 PLASTIC CIRTEX"

I was intending to cut the plug end off each light and hardwire them in the attic.

My questions:
1. The plugs are 3 prong. The wire is 2 conductor. What is the risk of not wiring the ground prong?
2. Regardless of wire, do I connect all of them in parallel?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

malibu101

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
3,909
Location
Walnutport PA
Did you actually look and only see 2 conductors?
12/2 or 12/3 "romex" is that many conductors plus a bare ground. The ground is not included in the terminology of "romex" wire. 12/2 has a black, white, and bare wire, literally 3 wires are in a 12/2.
 

Ford12508

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
858
Location
Middletown NJ
^^^^12-2 Would have Black, White, and a ground. 12-3 Would have black red and white plus a ground. Unless you have some funky wire, eh? Did you pick it up in canada? haha


The 12-2 will be fine, the requirement for this circuit is probably only 14-2 if it is a 15Amp circuit. As for wiring the ground, there should be 3 wires, an unsheathed copper wire, and 2 sheathed copper wires AKA 2 conductors. One conductor is White, and one is Black. The black is the ungrounded conductor, the white is the grounded conductor. Install 5 boxes, one above each light and a switch and run wire between all 5 boxes. So from box one, run wire into box 2 and the switch box, from box 2 run into box 3, from box 3 into 4. The switch box to the circuit breaker will be called the home run.

Now leave 4-6 extra inches of wire to work with in each box, just makes the job a little easier. Cut the outer sheathing, I am assuming yellow in color, and leave only 1/4" to 1/2" in each box.

In box one, you will have the power coming in from the switch box, lets call this the first set, so Black1, White1, and Ground1. Then the Light will have Black2, White2, Ground2. Then the wire going to box 2 will have Black3, White3, Ground3. Take a red or yellow wire nut, which ever fits better, and attach Ground1,Ground2,Ground3. Do the same with Black1,Black2,Black3 and White1,White2,White3. The blacks and whites will use separate wire nuts.

Now in all the rest of the boxes do the same thing, attach all the black together, all the whites together, and all the grounds together. If you are working with EMT, you can also just attach the grounds to the box.

In the box with the switch, simply hook up the switch, 1 black wire on 1 screw and the other black wire on the other screw. Hook the white wires to each other with a wire nut, and same with the grounds.

Did I miss anything?
 
OP
F

Frank

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
295
Location
Mesquite, TEXAS
Did you actually look and only see 2 conductors?
12/2 or 12/3 "romex" is that many conductors plus a bare ground. The ground is not included in the terminology of "romex" wire. 12/2 has a black, white, and bare wire, literally 3 wires are in a 12/2.

I've cut several different lengths off this roll before and stripped insulation back and there is no 3rd bare wire in it. I thought that was odd too.

Whether I got 2 or 3, what's wrong with just wire-nutting them all together?
 

Ford12508

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
858
Location
Middletown NJ
In order to wire it to code, there has to be a ground, a grounded conductor, and an ungrounded conductor.

I do not think he has romex malibu, I think he has wire from before the romex era, or a different type of wire all together. You can buy 12-2 wire with just 2 conductors, no ground. I found that out the hard way when I bought 500' of wire, didn't check it in the store, get home and when ballistic that I had 500' of useless wire. Is the wire even copper?
 
OP
F

Frank

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
295
Location
Mesquite, TEXAS
In order to wire it to code, there has to be a ground, a grounded conductor, and an ungrounded conductor.

I do not think he has romex malibu, I think he has wire from before the romex era, or a different type of wire all together. You can buy 12-2 wire with just 2 conductors, no ground. I found that out the hard way when I bought 500' of wire, didn't check it in the store, get home and when ballistic that I had 500' of useless wire. Is the wire even copper?

Yes, its copper solid core. I'll just buy the right kind. I was thinking this wire was pretty useless but thought maybe I could use it. So far it looks like its still useless.
 

mrb

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,734
you cant cut the plug off the light and hardwire them in the attic. The cord on the light may not be used in this fashion.
 

Grogan14

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2009
Messages
197
you cant cut the plug off the light and hardwire them in the attic. The cord on the light may not be used in this fashion.

Correct. Also, your shop lights are UL listed as assembled, and code requires them to be installed as they were intended. Wiring them without the equipment ground would allow the possibility of any metal parts to become energized.

Get yourself some 14/2 NM-B (Romex) and, using appropriate device boxes, wire receptacles (outlets) at each fixture location. Switch these from your entry point. Plug your shop lights into these.
 
Last edited:

nate379

Banned
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
7,279
Location
Palmer, AK
"Can't" because of some lame "rule", but as far as safety/burning the house down, cut the plug off and do it. It won't hurt a thing.

Some places you have to hardwire stuff that has a plug on it too. Like my boiler is on an outlet with a plug. Some places that isn't allowed. What do you do then??

you cant cut the plug off the light and hardwire them in the attic. The cord on the light may not be used in this fashion.
 

Ford12508

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
858
Location
Middletown NJ
"Can't" because of some lame "rule", but as far as safety/burning the house down, cut the plug off and do it. It won't hurt a thing.

Some places you have to hardwire stuff that has a plug on it too. Like my boiler is on an outlet with a plug. Some places that isn't allowed. What do you do then??

Certain appliances can be hardwired and are made to do so, such as ovens, ranges, and dryers. You can buy specialized outlets for them, and specialized cords, but I agree, rules don't allow a lot of things, even if they are safe. An example of that is not being allowed to bury a box. You can't bury a box, but leaving wires exposed and wrapping them in electrical tape to make the connections is ok:shocking: go figure
 
OP
F

Frank

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
295
Location
Mesquite, TEXAS
alrighty. Boxes, outlets, are cheap enough just a bit more labor and the extra outlets can be handy. Thanks for the advice.
 

Ford12508

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
858
Location
Middletown NJ
This may seem like an odd question, but will any of the outlets be accessible by reach up with your hand? If so then they have to be GFCI protected. If you are getting it inspected I would just go ahead and GFCI protect it anyway, the inspector will probably see that and scrutinize less on other stuff.
 

mrb

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,734
"Can't" because of some lame "rule", but as far as safety/burning the house down, cut the plug off and do it. It won't hurt a thing.

Some places you have to hardwire stuff that has a plug on it too. Like my boiler is on an outlet with a plug. Some places that isn't allowed. What do you do then??

absolutely because it can burn the house down. The jacket of the SJTW or SPT-2 cord on the fixtures becomes brittle over time especially when exposed to the heat of an attic. The insulation can fail, conductors short out and start a fire. This is why code prohibits a cord from penetrating the structure (through a wall or ceiling), or from being used as a substitute for fixed building wiring.

If I were in the situation, HAD to use these particular fixtures, and HAD to hard wire them as proposed, I would punch a hole in the fixture for a romex clamp and hard wire them with romex, but I would never run cord through the ceiling into the attic.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

mrb

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,734
This may seem like an odd question, but will any of the outlets be accessible by reach up with your hand? If so then they have to be GFCI protected. If you are getting it inspected I would just go ahead and GFCI protect it anyway, the inspector will probably see that and scrutinize less on other stuff.

all the exceptions are gone. If its a 15 or 20a 120v receptacle and its in a garage, it has to be GFCI protected. Used to be if it was on the ceiling or for a freezer didnt have to be gfci but not anymore :(
 

mrb

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,734
Some places you have to hardwire stuff that has a plug on it too. Like my boiler is on an outlet with a plug. Some places that isn't allowed. What do you do then??


you remove the cord and hardwire it with MC cable. This is a common problem in commercial places too. The A/C guys will install a condensate pump with a cord on it above a drop ceiling where cords arent permitted (for the same reason I outlined above)
 

Torque1st

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
5,668
Location
KC Metro, Kansas
Some of the newer lights with electronic ballasts use the cord as part of the active circuitry. They will not work right without the OEM cord.
 

Ford12508

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
858
Location
Middletown NJ
all the exceptions are gone. If its a 15 or 20a 120v receptacle and its in a garage, it has to be GFCI protected. Used to be if it was on the ceiling or for a freezer didnt have to be gfci but not anymore :(

Thanks for the update MrB, good to know for the future, because as you can tell, im from 2002 haha
 

nate379

Banned
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
7,279
Location
Palmer, AK
mrb, what year did that change?

Here were are on the prior to last NEC so non GFCI outlets on the ceiling are still allowed. Also still allowed is an outlet for a fridge/freezer in the garage that is non GFCI as well.

As far as the original question, just wire in outlets on the ceiling and plug the lights in. It's really not any more work then what you wanted to do and also if a light goes bad it's easy to change.

OR buy a light that doesn't have a cord and is made to be hard wired, but then you are still running boxes on the ceiling to run your wiring in anyhow.
 
Last edited:

mrb

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,734
mrb, what year did that change?

Here were are on the prior to last NEC so non GFCI outlets on the ceiling are still allowed. Also still allowed is an outlet for a fridge/freezer in the garage that is non GFCI as well.

that change was for 2008. I checked and you are still on 2005. I thought everywhere was on 2008 now. Its nice to see a few holdouts. I personally think much of the changes in 2008 are unreasonable and are driven by the manufacturers who sit on the codemaking panels.
 

nate379

Banned
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
7,279
Location
Palmer, AK
I'm sure you see that all the time if you are an electrician. I know with just my very basic knowledge of the NEC there are some things in there that are :wtf:

What if you decided to take a shower with a toaster and then wanted to change the light bulb.... we have to protect that guy!

Hmmm, how about less the dumb asses zap themselves and hopefully thin them out of the gene pool?! :bounce:
 

hidollartoys

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
594
Location
K. C. Metro area
I'm sure you see that all the time if you are an electrician. I know with just my very basic knowledge of the NEC there are some things in there that are :wtf:

What if you decided to take a shower with a toaster and then wanted to change the light bulb.... we have to protect that guy!

Hmmm, how about less the dumb asses zap themselves and hopefully thin them out of the gene pool?! :bounce:

Eventually electricity will be outlawed in ALL homes.
 
OP
F

Frank

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
295
Location
Mesquite, TEXAS
As far as the original question, just wire in outlets on the ceiling and plug the lights in. It's really not any more work then what you wanted to do and also if a light goes bad it's easy to change..

I got it done today and this is what I did. It was 146.8 degrees in the attic. I followed Ford12508's advice on how to wire them together. Unfortunately I made myself an impromptu skylight in one spot with my foot through the sheetrock (<-palm smack to the forehead) so I'll be learning sheet rock work soon enough. It is BRIGHT. I am very pleased with the end result.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom