Can my house power a welder??

[tigerbalm2424]

Looking to purchase a welder and would like to get one that would work well with both steel and aluminum (so needs functionality of alum spool gun). Currently looking at MIG/TIG from miller and I feel dumb for asking but where does it show the actual amperage draw of the machine? Currently I have 100amp service. Would like a model that will support up to and including 3/8 thick material.

Thanks!

 

[malibu101]

Sure it can. It could possibly be a problem if you have the electric dryer, electric water heater, well pump, heat pump, etc all running at the same time.
While it could happen that would be a real odd situation.

Go get a welder and have fun!

 

[tigerbalm2424]

Ok, where does it state input amp requirements? I guess I am having a hard time finding it on the miller website...

 

[bob15]

If your house house 100 amp service, time to upgrade to 200 amp.

For 3/8 steel, you should be looking at a Millermatic 180 at mininumn. This welder input is 220 volt, 22 amp.

To answer your question go to the Miller 180 welder. then tab for specs. Look under "general specs" and then under input power.


bob

 

[clemet]

Are you looking at 110v or 220v? 220v welders come equipped with a 50a plug attached. So to answer your question you will need a 50a 220v circuit to power your welder. If you under amp or run too light of a gauge of wire you will negatively affect your welder so it doesn't seem as powerful as it should.

 

[tigerbalm2424]

Yes, 220V models. Currently looking at 211/212 models. Anyone run these models and suggest pros/cons between then two?

Already have 60A 220 from a hot tub that I am going to use.

 

[ndoran]

It is hard to answer the question without knowing what electrical items you use in your house. In reality you normally do not use everything at the same time. Typical high draw items at home include: stove when cooking a large meal, dryer, central air, possibly an electric furnace or baseboard heaters, hot tub. As was mentioned above a 100 Amp service is too small by today's standards and by you factor in the load from lighting, small appliances etc. you run the risk of popping the main breaker by you start running a welder and other stuff in the garage. You should consider upgrading to 200 Amp.

 

[Skyline]

If you are shopping for a used Miller welder, you can find the owners manuals for every welder they've made in the at least 10 years on Miller's web site. In those manuals you will find the input amp requirement and graphs. Along with duty cycle graphs.

The later inverter based machines draw considerably less power than the old transformer based machines. But still, you're going to be right at capacity with any 110v machine trying to weld 3/8" steel. Probably to the point where your duty cycle will suffer quite a bit. So I would look for a 220v inverter based machine.

I have a Millermatic 250. There are several similar Miller models. It is a 220v machine that can put out 250 amps. It draws 45 amps. I plug mine into a 30 amp dryer outlet, so I can't run it at full power, but the 30 amps is more than enough to weld 3/8" steel. It can run a spool gun with an added module. But the spool gun can be an expensive add on. The one I have lists for about $1,300, and the module another $200. Some of the similar models I mentioned do not need an optional module.

If shopping used, best to try to find someone who's got the whole package. I paid $900 for my welder, which I thought was a fair price. Then I found another for $1,000 that came with a spool gun and a whole lot of wire. So I bought that too, and resold the welder for $1,000, (free spool gun!) So look for a welder / spool gun combo.

But if you plan on more than occasional aluminum welding you should realy think about a TIG machine. It will produce much nicer welds. A good 220v TIG machine will be much more costly though.

 

[tigerbalm2424]

Thanks guys. My concern will buying used if you never really know what abuse and use the welder has seen. I guess these days I dont really have much trust in people I am buying from. I wouldnt know what to look for to determine if the welder is in Good Shape vs Beat to heck...

 

[PT Doc]

If you can swing it, buy new. You'll have a warranty and there should be no issues.

 

[blatterjr]

There is a comfort factor in buying new unless you know how to evaluate the piece of equipment.

 

[sk farmer]

Yes, 220V models. Currently looking at 211/212 models. Anyone run these models and suggest pros/cons between then two?

Already have 60A 220 from a hot tub that I am going to use.

211 pros. i have had a 211 for about a year now. it has served me very well. of course you know about the dual voltage and auto set. both very nice features. i use it in may ag shop and chose it for it's size compared to a 211. in theory it should do anything that the 212 will except for duty cycle. if you are not doing production work it should not be a problem. i heavy melted some heavy stuff with no overheating. i put it on a northern tool welding cart with drawers and bottle storage. many others have done the same with posiitive results. i made an extension cord for it and it will reach any place in my shop.

the 212 is an excellant machine but you will have to deal with increased size, weight and price. it does have a lift eye for loading and lifting to high locations with a fork lift or crane but that is a fairly rare occurance in many shops. (you could carry the 211 to those locations and use flux core to get even more remote). my opinion of the 211 is that it has large machine features and capabilities at a compact price yet can run with flux and 120 power to get places large machines can't. i would redo this purchase with no regrets.

 

[Zebu Fellenz]

With a 60A 240v circuit you should be able to handle any 200A class machine and most 250A class machines if you're not running at 100% power.

We have an older Lincoln Idealarc Mig/Stick machine that we run on a 50A 240v circuit, we've never had issues tripping the breaker.

The larger concern is making sure you have the power available so you don't trip the 100A main breaker, do you have electric hot water/heat or anything else that has a large constant draw?

 

[ishiboo]

First, 100A service is plenty to run a welder in your range. If you do have several electric heaters, you may need to temporarily turn one or two off... the question is how often will you really be welding if that's the case?

Miller's are fantastic welders, but if you're not in it for the name also consider a Hobart, also made by Miller. They're made with very similar electrical components to the Millers, just slightly lighter duty, but still great welders. I had one and at the time the only difference between the Miller and the Hobart for my particular model was the fact that the wire feed system used a fiberglass-reinforced wire feed setup, versus the Miller's cast metal. I can't imagine the FRP ever being an issue with the wire sizes the unit was intended to weld.

A Handler 210 will get you 3/8" capability, and it also comes with both a 30A 240v plug and a 20A 120v plug, so you can easily run on 120 where appropriate. This is handy a sometimes you'll want to weld something small out in the yard or driveway or something, or perhaps take it to someone else's house, and you can throw it on an extension cord and have reduced capability.

If you do 3/8" frequently, I would go up a size to a welder that can weld 1/2" in a single pass. If you just need it "just in case", any welder rated at 3/8" will be fine. You can also weld thicker metals in multiple passes.

Are you looking at 110v or 220v? 220v welders come equipped with a 50a plug attached. So to answer your question you will need a 50a 220v circuit to power your welder. If you under amp or run too light of a gauge of wire you will negatively affect your welder so it doesn't seem as powerful as it should.

He's looking for at least a 240v welder, if not a 240/120... as specced by his need to do 3/8".

Not all, many 240v welders come with no plug attached or other plugs. IE, in his range he may only need a 30A receptacle and circuit. Others need much larger plugs than a 50a.

 

[tigerbalm2424]

I looked at Hobart and I guess I didnt see a huge price difference from them to Miller. I dont have any big draw electric appliances and I live by myself so no concerns about blowing breaker I guess.

 

[sk farmer]

Are you looking at 110v or 220v? 220v welders come equipped with a 50a plug attached. So to answer your question you will need a 50a 220v circuit to power your welder. If you under amp or run too light of a gauge of wire you will negatively affect your welder so it doesn't seem as powerful as it should.

i disagree. 220 is 220. if you are welding at a lower power settings there would be no difference. as you gradually increased the pwer you would eventually pull too many amps and trip the breaker and lose all power if it puled mor than 30 amps. at lowers amps you would see no differance. i am not advocating running it on a smaller circuit, just stating that i doubt you would notice any differance if you were operating it on a 30 amp circuit and it did not pull more than 30 amps.

 

[Jagmandave]

What exactly are you going to be doing with it?

If you're just building a hot rod, duty cycle is relatively unimportant, even if it were only 25% (which is less than even HF welders do) you'd probably never overrun that.

If you're doing heavy production work, you porbably should be looking for a better spot to work out of than an old small house with a 100 amp service, cause you'll quickly outgrow it.

You should update your service, but it really isn't necessary, unless you're starting a production shop, in which case see above.

 

[Chris Adams]

I wonder if a 300 amp service could allow me to run my microwave...

My house was built back in the day that 100 amp was considered the maximum.
So it's 100.
Never knew it was 'underpowered' until I joined this forum.
Ran a 50 amp Lincoln buzz box, tons of other stuff, etc. Never popped breakers.
Wife has, in kitchen, using 1200 watt Microwave, with rotisserie, refrigerator and 160 watts of lights all on the same circuit.

My shop was limited by city zoning to 50 amps. I'm actually running it on 40 amps, that was the breaker I had.
That powers a Rotary lift, three welders, 22.5 amp compressor, 7 amps of lights, etc.
I actually use the Lincoln at the same time as the compressor and lights, thus getting close to the 40.
I have never had a 'nuisance' trip.
That's with a small SP135 Plus Lincoln, (20 amp, 110) a HF 151 (25 amp 220) or my 220 spot welder.

I figured the day I got my first nuisance trip I would swap for the bigger breaker.
Two years and waiting...

Put in the welder, find out if you have a problem, THEN invest in upgrading.
Bet a dollar you never bother.

 

[Skyline]

Thanks guys. My concern will buying used if you never really know what abuse and use the welder has seen. I guess these days I dont really have much trust in people I am buying from. I wouldnt know what to look for to determine if the welder is in Good Shape vs Beat to heck...

I've bought a few used Miller welders over the last few years, and they've all been fine. Look at the prices I paid...I've saved thousands. I think if you test the machine, even briefly, and it works, you're 80% there. Ask a seller for a demonstration. Also, look at it from a cosmetic point of view. I'd only consider a welder that looked in VERY good shape. Look at the condition of the box, torch, and cables. Lots of folks buy welders to do specific jobs...then they just sit around collecting dust. Listen to the seller's story, each of the ones I bought had believable explanations for their light use. You're never going to know if it has some internal problem that will cause an expensive circuit board to blow out in two weeks...but that's the risk you take. They are pretty easy to open the case, as you need to do that to rewire or change voltage (a lot of the 220 welders can work on 1 or 3 phase, or even 460v). If there's a light, even coat of dust on everything, and the welder currently works, chances are there are no issues or recently replaced parts. And most important, Miller welders are very well built in the first place; so if it works, chances are it's going to stay working.

 

[shoot summ]

I'm going to respond to the title of this thread...

NO, your house cannot power a welder unless your house is also a power plant or a generator.

Now if you are asking if the electrical infrastructure of your house can handle the electrical load of a welder, then that is a different question...

 

[kv501]

These threads blow my mind.

People need to stop referring to 110V, 115V, 220V, etc. power coming out of the wall. This is a good way to confuse people, and if when figuring wattage and amperage you will be off. If you live in the United States in the year 2011, you are dealing with residential single phase line voltages of either 120 volts or 240 volts. Please stop with with the 110/220/460 thing. Edison picked 110 volts for his DC voltage in the 1800s, and that label stuck. If you have 110 volts at a wall outlet in your house, then you need to call your utility company and have a regulator installed.

When you have people saying 110, 115, and 120 and meaning the same thing, all you are going to do is confuse new people.

Sorry for the rant but that gets me every time. Proceed with the flaming.

 

[Chris Adams]

These threads blow my mind.

People need to stop referring to 110V, 115V, 220V, etc. power coming out of the wall. This is a good way to confuse people, and if when figuring wattage and amperage you will be off. If you live in the United States in the year 2011, you are dealing with residential single phase line voltages of either 120 volts or 240 volts. Please stop with with the 110/220/460 thing. Edison picked 110 volts for his DC voltage in the 1800s, and that label stuck. If you have 110 volts at a wall outlet in your house, then you need to call your utility company and have a regulator installed.

When you have people saying 110, 115, and 120 and meaning the same thing, all you are going to do is confuse new people.

Sorry for the rant but that gets me every time. Proceed with the flaming.

After reading your post, I still don't know what the heck you mean?

Are you suggesting only post exact voltages???
My line voltage runs from 112 to 130.1. I notice one leg runs three volts higher, usually, than the other. That's at the main breaker panel, and down the line, so it's from the transformer on the poll.

Many of my tools are marked 220. Some are marked 230. None are marked 240, that I can recall.

Line standards vary from electric company to electric company. They also vary a LOT based on distance.
I don't think anyone fit to use a tool, thus interested in this forum, is going to be too confused by 110-115-120 nomenclature.

 

[Outlawmws]

Key question here: is your 100 amp service 220/240 to begin with? (Don't laugh, some places get wired with one leg, not two...) I'd be real surprised if it wasn't two drops, but...

As to can you weld from that panel, if 220 is there, yes. Ive used 30 A dryer outlets to weld innumerable times and in numerable places. Like others, I've never popped a breaker either. VERY few people run a welder up to its maximum. I probably came closer than most when I did some SS stick welding back 30 years ago. 30 A breaker; never boggled. And I still didn't have the buzz box maxed out.