Can power outlets be installed near kitchen sink?

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Hey guys,
Being an older house, my kitchen is starved of power outlets. I'd love to be able to add a duplex power outlet to this 2-gang light/garbage disposal switches box. Would that be code compliant?

I count that I should be able to source power from this box. Wrong?
Otherwise there's a power outlet behind this wall, one stud away from this outlet.

I'd use a 15-amp Single-pole Combination Light Switch paired with a 15-Amp 125-volt Residential Duplex Outlet, installed in the current 2-gang box. Strangely, I can't seem to find a corresponding wall plate.

What do you guys say? Thanks as always!

 

[The Cobbler]

might be region specific, here they would have to be GFCI protected
the plates are available , but given a GFCI is required, switch over to decora double switch & plate

 

[BrandonV]

Just needs to be GFCI protected.

 

[hobie18]

Yes they can. Should they be?
I would redo the whole system from the box. Er...
Gfci absolutely.
Of course where I grew up, there were very strict rules.

 

[The Cobbler]

I would redo the whole system from the box. Er...

what is that gaining if he already has appropriate wiring?

 

[larry4406]

Use a 2-gang trim plate, 1-duplex and 1-Decora/gfi.


Then install a typical GFI outlet.

 

[justsam]

You could use GFIC breaker if you do not want to switch to Decora style. If one of those switches is for garbage disposal, you could install an air switch in that drop in sink. I would keep the garbage disposal on it's own circuit to avoid tripping breaker from the in rush current from it, if you also have a waffle iron or the like pugged in.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Use a 2-gang trim plate, 1-duplex and 1-Decora/gfi.


Then install a typical GFI outlet.

Excellent inputs, thanks everyone, I'll pursue this route.

 

[larry4406]

Or change to a 3-gang box

 

[BrandonV]

Excellent inputs, thanks everyone, I'll pursue this route.

You can also get the 1 gang dual switch in the Decora style which IMO looks a tad cleaner.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Or change to a 3-gang box

It sounds like a lot more work, what's the benefit?

 

[larry4406]

It sounds like a lot more work, what's the benefit?

If the existing 2-gang box is overly stuffed with wires, splices, etc, the added room of the 3-gang might be beneficial.

 

[Norcal]

If the existing 2-gang box is overly stuffed with wires, splices, etc, the added room of the 3-gang might be beneficial.

Changing boxes is easier said then done.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Changing boxes is easier said then done.

That's what my skills level says. But I understand Larry's point.

I'll keep you guys posted, thanks everyone.

 

[danski0224]

There are momentary switches available for garbage disposals.

 

[alfredeneuman]

There are momentary switches available for garbage disposals.

Momentary switches only work when pushed. I'd rather use both hands to shovel the waste in.

 

[Norcal]

That's what my skills level says. But I understand Larry's point.

I'll keep you guys posted, thanks everyone.

There are Smart Boxes that might work but not sure they are made in a 3 gang, a cut-in box will not work due to being smaller then a nail-on box.

 

[LOW1]

Changing boxes is easier said then done.

How about adding a box directly above the present one?

 

[Dagny]

I would put a whole new circuit and recp. 6 to 12 inches to the right.

 

[Shiftless]

First, verify that you have a white wire neutral in that box. And see if that box is overfilled.

How comfortable are you with sawing a big opening in the Sheetrock and putting in a new box or even 2 more? Cut, do some wiring, replace the cut out piece, patch and paint. Might be time to paint the whole wall anyway. That’s what my wife would say if I was doing it.

 

[Norcal]

How about adding a box directly above the present one?

It will look like sh*t.

 

[Shiftless]

You can also get the 1 gang dual switch in the Decora style which IMO looks a tad cleaner.

That’s the easiest way to go if you have a neutral In that box and there is room for a GFCI receptacle as well as this fairly large device. Sorry but I’d bet you won’t have room in that existing 2 gang box.

 

[RegeSullivan]

To be code compliant where I live at a minimum it would need to be on a 20 amp circuit and GFCI protected.

 

[danski0224]

Momentary switches only work when pushed. I'd rather use both hands to shovel the waste in.

Understood.

I haven't needed continuous operation for any length of time... but someone else might.

I gave up on the wall switches and installed an air switch in the countertop. WAY better, IMHO.

 

[mike93lx]

Even better, get rid of the garbage disposal and you will eliminate the switch

 

[Shiftless]

To be code compliant where I live at a minimum it would need to be on a 20 amp circuit and GFCI protected.

The last job I did at my own house that involved a similar problem, I ended up replacing a 4 inch by inch and a half deep box with a 4 11/16 box and a 2 device mud ring. I needed room for 12 ga. wire going in and then out to another box, and a GFCI receptacle and another Decora receptacle.

 

[rmanrman]

All kitchen receptacles must be 20Amp and if within 3 feet of sink must be GFCI type receptacle

 

[Shiftless]

Even better, get rid of the garbage disposal and you will eliminate the switch.

If you can access some wiring from under the sink, you can do what I did and install an air plunger switch into an unused hole in the sink. Push the button down to switch on the disposer and push it again to turn it off. Wet hands are no problem because the switch plunger button just puts a puff of air through a plastic tube which activates the switch you wire in under the sink.

 

[Shiftless]

All kitchen receptacles must be 20Amp and if within 3 feet of sink must be GFCI type receptacle

If you are subject to the latest code changes it’s even more restrictive than that.
Not included is the requirement to have at least 2 separate 20 amp circuits in a kitchen with receptacles spaced no more than 48 inches apart.

 

[Git]

Would installing an air switch in the sink for the garbage disposal free up enough room in that 2 gang box for a GFCI outlet?

 

[mike93lx]

If you can access some wiring from under the sink, you can do what I did and install an air plunger switch into an unused hole in the sink. Push the button down to switch on the disposer and push it again to turn it off. Wet hands are no problem because the switch plunger button just puts a puff of air through a plastic tube which activates the switch you wire in under the sink.

I'm a fan of no disposal at all. They only cause problems and solve none. It's so easy to put food waste in a trash can

 

[sparky 1971]

There are Smart Boxes that might work but not sure they are made in a 3 gang, a cut-in box will not work due to being smaller then a nail-on box.

Arlington makes them in up to four gang and is what I prefer due to the ease of use. Southwire makes up to a six gang but I've never seen larger than a two gang in the wild. The SW knockouts ****.

Arlington | ONE-BOX™ Non-Metallic Outlet Boxes

For new or retrofit construction.

www.aifittings.com

Southwire® SmartBox™ 6-Gang 110 Cu.In. Electrical Switch/Outlet Box

Multi-mount device boxes are a hybrid of the Original SmartBoxes. Like the Originals, Multi-mount boxes are great for both new work and old work applications. Unlike the Originals, these boxes offer additional features such as removable nail tabs for metal stud mounting, removable interior...

www.menards.com

OP:

Just put the stacked switch and GFCI in a two gang box. The box fill may be too much to stuff everything in, use the smallest wire nuts you can get your hands on and if it's still too tight, then consider a normal duplex receptacle and a GFCI breaker or changing the box out. Since you are in IN, I would assume you have access to a Menards. They stock these:

Southwire® SmartBox™ 2-Gang 38 Cu.In. Electrical Switch/Outlet Box

The Original SmartBoxes are unmatched in versatility in new work locations where you cannot swing a hammer, or where final wall surfaces are uncertain, like kitchens and baths. Interior mounting screws allow for depth adjustability to accommodate tile, paneling, and other specialty wall...

www.menards.com

Or you can order one of these through them:

Southwire® SmartBox™ 3-Gang 55 Cu.In. Electrical Switch/Outlet Box

The Original SmartBoxes are unmatched in versatility in new work locations where you cannot swing a hammer, or where final wall surfaces are uncertain, like kitchens and baths. Interior mounting screws allow for depth adjustability to accommodate tile, paneling, and other specialty wall...

www.menards.com

 

[sparky 1971]

All kitchen receptacles must be 20Amp and if within 3 feet of sink must be GFCI type receptacle

The receptacle can be 15 amp but the circuit is supposed to be 20 amp. Unless the 2023 code is in effect GFCI protection is required for kitchen countertops as well as any receptacle within 6' of the sink but not everything in a kitchen. I believe the 2023 states all kitchen receptacles but since we aren't there yet, I don't have a book to verify. OP is in Indiana and last I knew, those lucky bastards were still on the 2008. There has never been a within 3' of the sink requirement for GFCI protection that I am aware of. However, there is, and has been for quite some time, a rule for any receptacle within 6' of a sink for non kitchens. Disposals and dishwashers used to be excluded from this but got included a few cycles ago.

 

[Cc_windsurfer]

And please do something about that mismatched almond switches/white switch plate combo.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Merry Christmas fellow GJers!

As always, you guys don't disappoint! And some of you might be sleeping, because no one recommended me yet to rewire the whole house, upgrade panel to 3-phase 400A service, or 3-D print my own electrical box (after buying a $10k printer and learning to use it)

This is a modest 1969 house in Indiana, it's been kingdom since 2012, but not my forever home. It has an outdated 18'x11' kitchen with just a few conventional 15A power outlets, none GFCI.

This is the route I plan pursuing:

1. Keep the current 2-gang box as much as possible.
2. Install a 15A 125V duplex GFCI outlet.
   1. IF there's room in the box (wishful thinking), I may splurge to a duplex GFCI outlet with USB charger.
3. Install a 15A single-pole combination light switch, I like the Decora suggestion.
4. Call it a day!

Just needs to be GFCI protected.

Awesome, thanks!

Use a 2-gang trim plate, 1-duplex and 1-Decora/gfi.


Then install a typical GFI outlet.

Perfect! Thank you very much.

You can also get the 1 gang dual switch in the Decora style which IMO looks a tad cleaner.

Thanks. It might take that route, as they're indeed much nicer looking, even if I still find the old school switches much easier to toggle ON/OFF.

There are momentary switches available for garbage disposals.

Thanks, but I doubt I'd find them combined with a conventional switch (for the light over the kitchen sink).

First, verify that you have a white wire neutral in that box. And see if that box is overfilled.

How comfortable are you with sawing a big opening in the Sheetrock and putting in a new box or even 2 more? Cut, do some wiring, replace the cut out piece, patch and paint. Might be time to paint the whole wall anyway. That’s what my wife would say if I was doing it.

Thanks, yes, I'm yet to confirm both.

air plunger switch

I had to Google that.

Would installing an air switch in the sink for the garbage disposal free up enough room in that 2 gang box for a GFCI outlet?

And you beat me Googling that.

I'm a fan of no disposal at all. They only cause problems and solve none. It's so easy to put food waste in a trash can

Me neither, I never use it. I actually staged things for that picture, there's a dish drying rack on the right bowl. I think garbage disposal is a very cultural thing, I had a GF that freaked out with my arrangement

The receptacle can be 15 amp but the circuit is supposed to be 20 amp. Unless the 2023 code is in effect GFCI protection is required for kitchen countertops as well as any receptacle within 6' of the sink but not everything in a kitchen. I believe the 2023 states all kitchen receptacles but since we aren't there yet, I don't have a book to verify. OP is in Indiana and last I knew, those lucky bastards were still on the 2008. There has never been a within 3' of the sink requirement for GFCI protection that I am aware of. However, there is, and has been for quite some time, a rule for any receptacle within 6' of a sink for non kitchens. Disposals and dishwashers used to be excluded from this but got included a few cycles ago.

Very educational, big thanks.

And please do something about that mismatched almond switches/white switch plate combo.

Thanks, I mean it.
12 years living here, I never noticed it, but others certainly do. I wish I could afford to fly you from CA to do scan the rest of the house.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

All kitchen receptacles must be 20Amp and if within 3 feet of sink must be GFCI type receptacle

What code requires 20a receptacles?

The code requires 20a CIRCUITS but you can put 15 duplex receptacles on a 20a circuit

 

[Shiftless]

IF there's room in the box (wishful thinking), I may splurge to a duplex GFCI outlet with USB charger.

I upgraded one of the receptacles to one of those combo USB ones in a guest room so that people could more easily charge their devices. The combo USB receptacles are much bigger than normal ones. I bet the GFCI-USB ones are even bigger. They might not fit into that box at all even with minimum wires. Chances are your box is only 1.5 inches deep.

 

[reader2580]

I have replaced boxes by removing a section of drywall above or below the box. Remove the drywall, pull the wires out, cut or pull the nails, and remove the box. You may have to go back with an old work box.

My range was connected with three wire aluminum NM, but someone had replaced the receptacle with a four wire one while having only three wires. I wanted to replace the cable with proper copper 6/3 NM-B, but I couldn't fish the thick wire into the old box. I used a reciprocating saw to cut the nails holding the box and was able to pull the box out. I didn't care if I damaged the aluminum cable as I was replacing it. I put the new NM-B into the old work box before mounting the box in the wall. The old cable came in the bottom, but there was no way I could do that without opening up the wall so I looped around and in through the top.

Please note I am not necessarily suggesting replacing the box here, but for a DIYer not on the clock it isn't that bad to put in a larger box.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

I upgraded one of the receptacles to one of those combo USB ones in a guest room so that people could more easily charge their devices. The combo USB receptacles are much bigger than normal ones. I bet the GFCI-USB ones are even bigger. They might not fit into that box at all even with minimum wires. Chances are your box is only 1.5 inches deep.

Thanks Shiftless, yes, I agree, that's a very long shot to fit a GFCI-USB in there.

 

[Shiftless]

Sometimes you just have to give up and cut the wall open. Here is what I ended up doing when all I started out needing was a receptacle to power my vintage stereo equipment.
I wanted 20 amp capability in case somebody wants to plug in a space heater so with the 12ga. wire, I needed the big 4 11/16 box in locations where I had power passing through. The bigger boxes might be overkill but it makes the job easier with the 12ga. solid and the larger GFCI receptacle.

As a bonus for me as long as the wall was open, I added another receptacle facing the other side of this little wall. That is where I now plug in an extension cord to run my table saw when it is on the concrete slab just outside the basement door. 20 amp power is good.

I‘m not a pro by any means but if a DIY guy just learns the right way to do things and takes his time, things turn out OK.