Can the T8 LED tubes run without ballast?
- Thread starter dogdog
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Depends on the tube
CJ7VFR
Well-known member
As mentioned, it depends on the type of T8 LED bulbs you have. Some are direct replacements for fluorescent fixtures and require the ballasts to be in place in order to work. Some are made to work when the ballasts are removed and those fixtures need a bit of simple re-wiring of the tombstones to make them work.
Sometimes the bulbs will have writing on them indicating which type they are, and some have the indications on the box.
I bet if you do a Google search of the part/item number of the bulbs you have, you will find out which ones you have.
Jim
Sometimes the bulbs will have writing on them indicating which type they are, and some have the indications on the box.
I bet if you do a Google search of the part/item number of the bulbs you have, you will find out which ones you have.
Jim
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No I don't have any bulbs yet, the last batch of 10's I bought didn't work well with this fixture. and the newer T8 tubes lasted about a year with only few hours of usage. I just wanted see if I can keep the fixture and to replace the tubes without the ballast....
mnoeltne
Well-known member
Yes. Rewire the fixture according to what the bulbs need and get rid of the ballasts. This bulb is from the sticky at the top of the electrical page. It can be used with direct 120v wiring. I believe there is a PDF on that page showing how it needs to be wired.
Thanks, easy enough.... too bad that site min order is 30 and it's out of stock. Let me try some google skills see if there are others.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
IMHO, replace the whole fixture.
+1 I have bought about 10 so far of these, both 8 and 3'. The ones I got, bypass the ballasts. I will never mess with a ballast again. And for me, took much less time than replacing the fixture. Added bonus, instant on, no warm up.
Yea it would be the last resort or go get a new ballast, but I'll have to deal with the shades of discolors in the ceiling between the old fixture and new. besides that I like this fixture. I had 3 of them to deal with.....
Thx trents99 , I think I'll try those hyperikons.
One can buy 2 high quality LED tubes for under $20, remove ballast and rewire in under 10 minutes.
Hard to match with a whole new fixture.
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Or use drop in LED bulbs and your done in less than 2 minutes. Sylvania drop ins can be had for about $4-$5 each.
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
We just got T8 LEDs put in our office - I am not liking it over the warm white T-8 bulbs I grabbed for my office, but it is what it is. THESE were a direct replacement, ballasts and all. Some are, some are not. These did NOT require rewiring or pullng ballasts out, others do...
acer66
Well-known member
I am new to the whole led thing,
so can I just use any old fixture and remove the ballast and use it with led's?
Thanks
Depends on the bulb you want to use. The hyperikons I mentioned above do not need the ballast. I have some 8 foot twin bulb industrial fluorescent fixtures that were free and these will fit with a little re-wiring. This brand also comes with free tombstones.
493mike
Well-known member
I recently finished rewiring and replacing all T-8s in my shop with LEDs from Amazon. I used light tubes from Shine Glory Lighting. They required 120 volts and neutral to be supplied to one end only, the other end just holds the tube in place. I left the ballasts in place (let the next owner deal with disposal) and only installed one tube per fixture ( made for two bulbs). The light output is fabulous compared with the T-8s! I did all 39 fixtures and it was a great move!
Mike
Mike
One thing I found/learned in this thread is.... yes and no.... It seems there are the Direct replacements which you drop in to the fixture with no modification.... and the other is required to cut out the ballast and rewire directly Hot/Neutral (IMO is a better and more efficient than the direct fit.... but once you did the mod, you are going to have to use 110V LED tubes all the way ).
This is the Yes and No Part.
With the ballast bypass LED tubes... (I think that is what they called it) there are two type of tubes...
one uses the non-shunted sockets ? so it uses the one side of the socket for hot and the other side of the same socket for neutral..... such as tubes from these guys...
https://blog.1000bulbs.com/home/how-to-bypass-a-ballast
The other type is utilize one socket for hot, the other end of the other socket for Neutral... I think like those hyperikon mentioned...
So make sure you check before you buy for the ballast bypass LED tubes... I think I am going with the 2nd type....more safer and don't care if I have a shunted or non-shunted socket IMO...
For sure, but perpetually-operating, completely unneeded ballasts, are a complete waste of electrical power and a generator of unnecessary heat, IMO.
exranger06
Well-known member
Some LED tubes can be used both with or without a ballast, although they're not as common.
Other posts on the topic from the experts report the ballast is a 2% loss.
Choosing a quality bulb from the a reputable manufacture is a far more important factor.
American Locomotive
Well-known member
T8 ballasts can have losses over 10%.
acer66
Well-known member
@dogdog, thanks for all the info, I defiantly want to go the ballast free route.
The big myth with bypass tubes is that you are magically "getting rid of the ballast". You're not.
All bypass tubes have a ballast, which is now called a driver. It performs the same functions as the ballast, with the exception of providing a starting voltage.
In the case of the LED bypass tube, you need to miniaturize the driver so that it fits in the 1" diameter tube. Engineering compromises have to be made to accomplish this. One of those compromises is heat sensitivity, which is why drivers are still the weak link in any LED system. The tiny driver is then stuffed into the tube where all the diodes are busy creating light and heat. And then an end cap is put onto the tube.
Basically what you've done is taken a heat sensitive driver and stuffed it into an oven.
Fortunately, LED tube technology has gotten better recently and the diodes dont run as hot as they used to, so this is becoming less of a problem. BUT...that's only necessarily true with the name brand manufacturers. When you buy LED tubes from Amazon, Ebay, etc....I'd argue that not only are you NOT getting rid of ballasts, you are actually making the situation worse.
As much as a pain that ballasts can be, they do provide some benefits, which is why the ballast-ready LED tubes have grown so much in popularity. They have some degree of surge protection built into them. They are much better at current regulation, which the diodes need. The heat-generating power conversion process necessary to run LED tubes is done in the large black can that is attached to the fixture, so the heat sink is huge. Ballast-ready tubes also react to the ballast factor, which can assure that the proper amount of light is delivered.
Ballast ready tubes, in general, create about 2 watts of ballast losses per tube. If you have a 14w tube, then it will actually consume 16 watts. This varies some, due to electronic weirdness. Also, the ballast will run significantly cooler when running LED tubes because the load is reduced by approximately 50%. Running cooler helps extend the life of ballasts.
You often hear that bypass tubes are more efficient than ballast-ready tubes. If you were comparing two lamps, both 14w and with equal lighting performance, then this would be true because the ballast-ready tube would use 2 extra watts of ballast losses. However, as a general statement, this isn't true. Ballast-ready lamps often need to use fewer watts, ballast losses included, to achieve the same lumen output.
Using the example above, if we had a 14w bypass tube and a 10w ballast-ready tube, the ballast-ready tube would be more efficient, provided they both delivered the same lumens.
Hope this helps clarify a few things.
CD
All bypass tubes have a ballast, which is now called a driver. It performs the same functions as the ballast, with the exception of providing a starting voltage.
In the case of the LED bypass tube, you need to miniaturize the driver so that it fits in the 1" diameter tube. Engineering compromises have to be made to accomplish this. One of those compromises is heat sensitivity, which is why drivers are still the weak link in any LED system. The tiny driver is then stuffed into the tube where all the diodes are busy creating light and heat. And then an end cap is put onto the tube.
Basically what you've done is taken a heat sensitive driver and stuffed it into an oven.
Fortunately, LED tube technology has gotten better recently and the diodes dont run as hot as they used to, so this is becoming less of a problem. BUT...that's only necessarily true with the name brand manufacturers. When you buy LED tubes from Amazon, Ebay, etc....I'd argue that not only are you NOT getting rid of ballasts, you are actually making the situation worse.
As much as a pain that ballasts can be, they do provide some benefits, which is why the ballast-ready LED tubes have grown so much in popularity. They have some degree of surge protection built into them. They are much better at current regulation, which the diodes need. The heat-generating power conversion process necessary to run LED tubes is done in the large black can that is attached to the fixture, so the heat sink is huge. Ballast-ready tubes also react to the ballast factor, which can assure that the proper amount of light is delivered.
Ballast ready tubes, in general, create about 2 watts of ballast losses per tube. If you have a 14w tube, then it will actually consume 16 watts. This varies some, due to electronic weirdness. Also, the ballast will run significantly cooler when running LED tubes because the load is reduced by approximately 50%. Running cooler helps extend the life of ballasts.
You often hear that bypass tubes are more efficient than ballast-ready tubes. If you were comparing two lamps, both 14w and with equal lighting performance, then this would be true because the ballast-ready tube would use 2 extra watts of ballast losses. However, as a general statement, this isn't true. Ballast-ready lamps often need to use fewer watts, ballast losses included, to achieve the same lumen output.
Using the example above, if we had a 14w bypass tube and a 10w ballast-ready tube, the ballast-ready tube would be more efficient, provided they both delivered the same lumens.
Hope this helps clarify a few things.
CD
Hmmm
https://www.sylvania.com/en-us/about/legal/recall/Pages/SubstiTUBE-IS-T8-LED-Recall.aspx
Are not most of them made in China?
Mine have the "Honeywell "brand name on them, which is about as meaningless as all the rest of them.
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Not sure about this.... something doesn't sound right...... at least from my reading so far. I dunno, and not 100% sure, since I am not an engineer.
LEDs are usually DC. LEDs itself have the highest heat generation, regardless if it is a ballast ready or ballast bypass tubes.. How much heat would dependent on the type of LED modules used I would have guess...
most LEDs drivers work are DC.... Ballast is AC ... both are current mode drivers.
Ballast bypass LED tubes would have a 120/240V LED driver to drive the LEDs inside the Tube.... most heat would be from the LED.... Unless it is some defect.....
Ballast Ready LED tubes would have to have those higher secondary voltage whether in 3kv or 300v.... converted back to DC and still needs a LED driver (dc) to drive those LEDs inside a ballast ready LED tubes.... regardless if the LEDs are arranged in series to achieve 300V DC strips... ( I could be wrong on this) But still heat is from the LEDs.....
IMO I would rather have skip the ballast, it's just an extra component for failure.
So far the LED bulb that I opened have a 120V LED driver that is DC voltage.... I haven't had any LED tubes to play with.
for example....
the LED driver I opened have this chip in it AP1508... it's CREE brand bulbs from HD. I am suspecting the Ballast ready ones would have a similar driver with additional filtering circuits for the unwanted higher voltages and spikes generated from the ballast.
http://www.ansc.com.tw/admin/product_ch/images/file/2015-09-04/55e92fc389567.pdf
That was quite a nasty recall for Sylvania. In fact, they had another one after that one. The thing about good companies is that they take care of their problems. They replaced all those lamps for free.
Cree had the exact same issue. Also had a recall and also replaced all their lamps.
You wont likely find that level of care from the no-namers.
Yes, nearly all of them are made in China. There's differences though. The name brands have their own factories in China. The no-namers are all made by other no-namers with very little interest in QC.
CD
Ok just ordered 12 hyperikonss , lets see how well it goes.
A Little note..... apparently even with the same brand tubes / bulbs there are two different distinction on the LED tubes... I have to cancel and re-order. they looked the same but wired different, the dual end powered one seems to be ballast ready and ballast bypass compatible.
Dual-End Powered
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C52MDLO/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Single Ended Power
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G4GWWUO/?tag=atomicindus08-20
A Little note..... apparently even with the same brand tubes / bulbs there are two different distinction on the LED tubes... I have to cancel and re-order. they looked the same but wired different, the dual end powered one seems to be ballast ready and ballast bypass compatible.
Dual-End Powered
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C52MDLO/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Single Ended Power
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G4GWWUO/?tag=atomicindus08-20
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