Can this rotary XY table be saved?
- Thread starter Shiftless
- Start date
astroracer
Well-known member
Here is a thread I started on a vice rebuild:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326321
May give you some insight as to what direction to take with yours.
Mark
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326321
May give you some insight as to what direction to take with yours.
Mark
jakemac
Well-known member
It will take some hard work, but that x-y should be salvageable.
It will be fun to watch your progress. Keep us updated.
It will be fun to watch your progress. Keep us updated.
Rileysan
Well-known member
If you don't want to try, I will! I have been looking for one of those. Nice find!
Brian
Brian
rlitman
Well-known member
> Can this rotary XY table be saved?
After seeing some of the boat anchors saved here by electrolysis, I'm confident that your table can see use again. It really doesn't look all that bad.
If it were mine, I'd toss it in a bucket with kerosene and forget about it for a few months, and then disassemble and wire wheel everything.
After seeing some of the boat anchors saved here by electrolysis, I'm confident that your table can see use again. It really doesn't look all that bad.
If it were mine, I'd toss it in a bucket with kerosene and forget about it for a few months, and then disassemble and wire wheel everything.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Shift: Remember the bucket if diesel idea? Pretty much the same as kerosene idea. Or electrolysis. Looks ok from my chair and nice looking xy. Good luck
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
The only thing I would have done after you clean it and paint it would be to have someone with a surface grinder redo the top and bottom surfaces or all of the surfaces if possible.
What brand is it?
What brand is it?
rsanter
Well-known member
Yes it can
Evaporust and electrolysis will work well for you
Bob
Evaporust and electrolysis will work well for you
Bob
I would suggest that before moving it again that you back off the gib adjusters to prevent further damage from the iron oxide on the ways grinding into the surface. I also would suggest that you not wire wheel the ground surfaces. Any precision you have is in the ways and any more damage to them removes that precision. I use Hoppes #9 gun cleaner and White, non abrasive, scotch bright. This removes the dirt, grime and surface rust. Now you can access how the ways are.
Remember this is not some old vise you clean and paint and call restored. You expect the tables to move at right angles to each other and table to move concentric to it's center point.
lg
no neat sig line
Remember this is not some old vise you clean and paint and call restored. You expect the tables to move at right angles to each other and table to move concentric to it's center point.
lg
no neat sig line
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Definitely can be saved. It might not be a precision tool any more, but it would definitely be good enough and useful for general work on a drill press.
It may be more effort then it is worth, but it most likely could be restored to a precision tool depending on how far gone the ways are. A little surface grinding and a little scraping could probably get it back in shape.
If you decide its to much work, i'll be glad to take it off your hands.
It may be more effort then it is worth, but it most likely could be restored to a precision tool depending on how far gone the ways are. A little surface grinding and a little scraping could probably get it back in shape.
If you decide its to much work, i'll be glad to take it off your hands.
Thanks Larry:
I think the ways are in good shape. I will post some pics of my progress later this afternoon.
I have not wire wheeled any machined surface. Scotchbrite and solvent is my go to approach for precision parts. For solvent I often use WD40 not for lubrication but for cleaning. Spray can with the fold down nozzle is very convenient and inexpensive when you only need a quick squirt.
The gib adjustment strips are not there. There are 3 threaded holes on one side of each of the XY sliders where I would imagine the adjustment strips used to be. (All of the holes are empty, no adjustment screws) This is certainly a problem.
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Regarding the lack of adjustment strips, just as an experiment I screwed in 3 black oxide cap screws. They do an excellent job in taking up the side-to-side wobble but I realize this is not a long term user solution.
Is anybody familiar with the gibb adjusters on a vintage Palmgren table? Are there strips of metal that ride along with the slide and are held on with those 3 screws, or would the manufacturer just rely on the tips of 3 machine screws.
I could dress the tips of the screws forming a half round.
Is anybody familiar with the gibb adjusters on a vintage Palmgren table? Are there strips of metal that ride along with the slide and are held on with those 3 screws, or would the manufacturer just rely on the tips of 3 machine screws.
I could dress the tips of the screws forming a half round.
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For anybody thinking the top might have to be machined flat again, check out this picture. Cleaned up pretty well if I say so myself. If you enlarge the image, you can clearly see all of the parallel line milling marks.
I didn't expect that! (Note the before pic in post #2)
I didn't expect that! (Note the before pic in post #2)
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The gibs would be strips of cast iron with drilled indents for the adjusting screws to set in. The adjusting screws would be set screws with lock nuts. The sharp cup points should be ground off slightly. If you want to be really authentic look for square head screws. You could substitute cold rolled steel strip for the cast iron. Not quite as good but serviceable.
Check this url for a new equivalent. http://www.palmgren.com/product/369/
Check this url for a new equivalent. http://www.palmgren.com/product/369/
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Thanks MShaw, I will round off the cut points of those screws. Thanks also for the link to the Palmgren vise. That one clamps but doesn't rotate. Mine rotates but doesn't clamp. If I put this piece to work on my drill press I will fabricate some little strips and drill out some dimples to match the screw holes.
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Rat infested is when you find a Snap On puller set in the tray yet with a rat nest sitting on it with a dead rat in it! After moving the nest and rat off with my hand in a plastic bag I sprayed that sucker down with a bleach and water solution before I used anti-bacterial soap and water and then oiled it.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Shift, BB & ALL: so you are telling me that if you get a cool old tool and it's filthy, but in pretty good shape under the gunk you're going to pass usually?
while i'm not a huge fan of going into areas or a sale where there are dark corners and things lurking i usually still look for something that others wouldn't dare even try to find and come up with something like you guys did. if i know ahead of time i wear gloves otherwise stuff usually washes off and i've been smiling more than a few times when i get home and see what i've found after the gunk was removed.
Shift: any more progress or are you looking for shims and screws to just get it working like it did when it left the factory?
good luck
while i'm not a huge fan of going into areas or a sale where there are dark corners and things lurking i usually still look for something that others wouldn't dare even try to find and come up with something like you guys did. if i know ahead of time i wear gloves otherwise stuff usually washes off and i've been smiling more than a few times when i get home and see what i've found after the gunk was removed.
Shift: any more progress or are you looking for shims and screws to just get it working like it did when it left the factory?
good luck
^ I think everyone has their own personal "nastiness" setting for any vintage thing that they're considering, that probably is directly proportional to how much they want it.
Over the last few years, I've been helping my Dad restore his 1969 Camaro. That thing spent 30 years outside under a tarp. I think I've cleaned up a lifetime's worth of mouse turds (and also a couple of mummified mice). Blech.
Over the last few years, I've been helping my Dad restore his 1969 Camaro. That thing spent 30 years outside under a tarp. I think I've cleaned up a lifetime's worth of mouse turds (and also a couple of mummified mice).
Blech.^ I think everyone has their own personal "nastiness" setting for any vintage thing that they're considering, that probably is directly proportional to how much they want it.
Over the last few years, I've been helping my Dad restore his 1969 Camaro. That thing spent 30 years outside under a tarp. I think I've cleaned up a lifetime's worth of mouse turds (and also a couple of mummified mice).
tym:
Pardon the brief digression from the topic.
You mentioning mummified mice reminds me of something that is still bewildering when I think of it. Drives might also chime in on this story because of his real estate background.
My wife and I walked into a Sunday open house held after the previous owner (a known hoarder) had passed away. Realtors usually try to make their listings as presentable as possible right? They usually at least do a cursory walk through before holding an open house right? The P.O.s junk was all gone but at the bottom of the stairs to the basement was a mummified rat. Just laying there in the open covered with cobwebs. I mentioned it to the guy on my way out and he acted like he didn't know anything about it. BTW, the place was listed for over $800,000.
Drives:
It runs back and forth and round and round fine. I bought some set screws for the handles 8-32 but assumed the set screws for the shafts were the same. They are bigger. Off to the ACE hardware to buy set screws. (tip: when buying tiny little parts like that, have the cashier tape them onto the inside surface of a tiny paper bag. A one eighth inch long 8-32 will disappear on you fast!
And may I add that yes, I am smiling because the exact same models in worse condition have sold on eBay for over $200. One went for $349.
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c39er
Well-known member
These pics kinda show the steel iron gibs on this craftsman rotary table I bought new in 1975... cost $199.00 back then!
The gib screws on mine are slotted brass screws with no lock nut.
The gib screws on mine are slotted brass screws with no lock nut.
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Thanks for posting c39er.
There were no gibs and no screws either on mine. If a guy wanted to adjust them you can't just reach in and use your fingers. Slotted screws could of course be accessed with a straight blade screwdriver. I chose allen head cap screws 3/4 inches long. I might trade them in for slotted brass. That would be cool. I plan to look for some steel stock to make my own gibs. Your handles are round and mine are daisy shaped. I suppose that dates mine to before 1975.
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Pass on tools because they were nasty? Are you crazy?
I got that Snap On puller for $5. I actually am looking at it right now, all cleaned up.And I got this vintage Record, made in England 7 inch woodworkers' vice out of a dirty basement. Cheap! Seller says it came with the house and he never used it. Got rid of it because it was filthy and useless to him. It took me a whole 5 minutes to scrub it down and apply some boiled linseed oil.
(I should polish the handle and the nose)
But I digress...
(I should polish the handle and the nose)
But I digress...
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elguappo
Well-known member
Well this explains how/where the little Palmgren vices I have should mount.
If only I had a cool XY table like that.