Can we stop calling it 220?

[dwilliams35]

i nearly lost the thread on this but if your voltage is lower your power usage goes up so your bill goes up too not down

Wrong. Meters work on watts, not amps. Watts isn't going to change with the voltage..

 

[Alchymist]

i nearly lost the thread on this but if your voltage is lower your power usage goes up so your bill goes up too not down

Wrong. Meters work on watts, not amps. Watts isn't going to change with the voltage..

Actually, you're both somewhat mistaken ........

Volts X Amps X Power Factor = Watts. If the volts go down, the watts go down.

And as to meters, voltmeters work on volts, ammeters work on amps, and watt meters work on both. Just sayin.....

 

[dwilliams35]

Actually, you're both somewhat mistaken ........

Volts X Amps X Power Factor = Watts. If the volts go down, the watts go down.

And as to meters, voltmeters work on volts, ammeters work on amps, and watt meters work on both. Just sayin.....

But in actual practice, the watt rating is basically a function of the load: it won't change. If you have X watts on a motor, it will always pull roughly X watts: the volts may go up, but the amps go down as a result, not the watts.. Run a 10hp motor at 460 v, it will run the same wattage as it does at 240: (roughly, allowing for voltage drop through windings, etc...) The amperage will go way up, but the Kwh meter doesn't spin any faster..

As far as meters, i was referring to power-company metering devices, not VOM's: they are pretty much all based on kilowatts and kwh.. volts won't really matter, amps won't really matter: only watts... Of course there's some minor effects, but for the most part it's the watt load, period.

Just sayin'......

 

[Alchymist]

But in actual practice, the watt rating is basically a function of the load: it won't change. If you have X watts on a motor, it will always pull roughly X watts: the volts may go up, but the amps go down as a result, not the watts.. Run a 10hp motor at 460 v, it will run the same wattage as it does at 240: (roughly, allowing for voltage drop through windings, etc...) The amperage will go way up, but the Kwh meter doesn't spin any faster..

As far as meters, i was referring to power-company metering devices, not VOM's: they are pretty much all based on kilowatts and kwh.. volts won't really matter, amps won't really matter: only watts... Of course there's some minor effects, but for the most part it's the watt load, period.

Just sayin'......

The wattage pulled by a motor is determined by the load. The electric company meter monitors both voltage and amperage. For example, you have a 100 watt light bulb. That "100 watts" is it's nominal rating at some specified voltage, 115 or 120, for example. Lets use 120, as it's the latest "spec". If the power company delivers 120 volts exactly, the light bulb will consume 100 watts of power, and in 10 hours, the meter would record 1 kilowatt of consumption. Then let the power company go into a brownout condition, and supply only 100 volts. Since the light bulb hot resistance is nearly fixed, only 100/120 of the power is being utilized, or 83 watts. It will take 12 hours for the meter to indicate 1 Kilowatt of consumption. So the voltage does matter in the power company meter. Back to the above formula.

Now, just to throw a monkey wrench into things - take a 1 hp motor running on 110 volts. At half load it will consume "x" amps. Increase the load, and "x" increases. Lower the voltage with the same load, and "x" also increases. In fact, you can increase the load until the breaker pops. One of the dangers of running a motor on low voltage. Because of the high currents, the motor windings over heat. This is why running motor powered equipment on long light extension cords cause so much trouble.

 

[rburke65]

I think some of you guys need to get back to your garages and find something to occupy your time, my God! Get over it ......no one is going to start calling it 118 volts or 120....it's forever 110/220!

 

[dwilliams35]

The wattage pulled by a motor is determined by the load. The electric company meter monitors both voltage and amperage. For example, you have a 100 watt light bulb. That "100 watts" is it's nominal rating at some specified voltage, 115 or 120, for example. Lets use 120, as it's the latest "spec". If the power company delivers 120 volts exactly, the light bulb will consume 100 watts of power, and in 10 hours, the meter would record 1 kilowatt of consumption. Then let the power company go into a brownout condition, and supply only 100 volts. Since the light bulb hot resistance is nearly fixed, only 100/120 of the power is being utilized, or 83 watts. It will take 12 hours for the meter to indicate 1 Kilowatt of consumption. So the voltage does matter in the power company meter. Back to the above formula.

Now, just to throw a monkey wrench into things - take a 1 hp motor running on 110 volts. At half load it will consume "x" amps. Increase the load, and "x" increases. Lower the voltage with the same load, and "x" also increases. In fact, you can increase the load until the breaker pops. One of the dangers of running a motor on low voltage. Because of the high currents, the motor windings over heat. This is why running motor powered equipment on long light extension cords cause so much trouble.

a 1 hp motor is 1 hp at it's peak load, and thus wattage. You can list a motor at a wattage rating or at a hp rating, it really doesn't matter: most of your european and IEC motors are now listed in wattage instead of hp.. Raise the voltage and the amperage goes down. Lower the voltage and the amperage goes up. It's that simple. The wattage never changes, and the same KW is going through and being recorded by the meter. If the motor is running at 70% load, it's certainly using less wattage, but it's going to use a constant 70% of it's peak wattage no matter what the voltage is. (of course, it's not that cut and dried, as no-load amperage isn't zero, but the principle still holds.)

 

[dwilliams35]

I think some of you guys need to get back to your garages and find something to occupy your time, my God! Get over it ......no one is going to start calling it 118 volts or 120....it's forever 110/220!

No, it's whatever the transformer says it is...

 

[Norcal]

I think some of you guys need to get back to your garages and find something to occupy your time, my God! Get over it ......no one is going to start calling it 118 volts or 120....it's forever 110/220!

Yeah, & I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

 

[TOOL MASTER]

i used to get 60-80 volts holding pos lead and other to ground while sitting on my water bed.......we figured it out on night when my kid was sleeping beside us one night...mom rubber her head and she said what is that buzzing....turned out she was hearing the 60 hz...(i tried it my self) grabbed a meter and there it was....years later they came out with 3 wire grounded heaters..emf is a *****
http://emf.mercola.com/sites/emf/emf-dangers.aspx

 

[ddawg16]

i used to get 60-80 volts holding pos lead and other to ground while sitting on my water bed.......we figured it out on night when my kid was sleeping beside us one night...mom rubber her head and she said what is that buzzing....turned out she was hearing the 60 hz...(i tried it my self) grabbed a meter and there it was....years later they came out with 3 wire grounded heaters..emf is a *****
http://emf.mercola.com/sites/emf/emf-dangers.aspx

Simple solution.....make a tin hat.....