Can you do this?

[capt546]

My house is built on pilings because I live on the bay. Power service come in from overhead, down one of the pilings to a meter and main power switch. From there the power goes back up to the second floor and to distribution panel that serves the whole house including the garage which is under the house's foot print. I am installing a sub panel in the garage/shop for my compressor and welder and any other power requirements the garage shop needs.
Now my question: Can I tap the main feeds below the master switch under the meter and feed the new subpanel. Is there any danger in taping the power at that point? I plan to use appropriate wire size with some type of sodered spade on the wire ends at the main swith end to go behind the big clamping allen head screws below the main switch.
Hope this makes sense?
Oh by the way I will turn off the power first!

 

[Aceman]

You can't land two wires under one lug unless it's made for it. I highly doubt yours is.

If your "master switch" is just a breakered or fused disconnect, it sounds like you'll need to call an electrician. If it's a panel with a main and space for other branch circuit breakers you can simply snap a 2 pole breaker in and take off with the wire to feed your garage.

I'm assuming it's the former though...

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Cannot use a soldered on terminal end. More than one place in the code states that connections cannot be made with solder alone. Will need to be a crimp if you use a lug on the cable. Most likely you will need a meter socket with two disconnects or as noted a panel with a main disconnect and space for a couple of large breakers. GE and Siemens among others have panels that are combined meter sockets and disconnects with space for 4 to 8 breakers.

Sounds like you might want to use anti-corrosive paste and other means to prevent corrosion on virtually everything.

Charles

 

[Gigfy]

"More than one place in the code states that connections cannot be made with solder alone."

Charles, can you elaborate on this? Are you referring specifically to connections of feeder cable, or all electrical connections. In other words, is it a violation to soldier, say, a couple #12 neutrals together (in a junction box) and then use heat shrink wrap on them as insulation?

 

[Norcal]

110.14(B) 2008 NEC

(B) Splices. Conductors shall be spliced or joined with
splicing devices identified for the use or by brazing, welding,
or soldering with a fusible metal or alloy. Soldered
splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically
and electrically secure without solder and then be
soldered. All splices and joints and the free ends of conductors
shall be covered with an insulation equivalent to that of
the conductors or with an insulating device identified for
the purpose.
Wire connectors or splicing means installed on conductors
for direct burial shall be listed for such use.

 

[Gigfy]

Thanks Norcal,

Charles post threw me for a bit of a loop. He must be referring heavy gauge feeder cable.

"Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically
and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered."

I thought that was the appropriate way to soldier. That is to form a sturdy mechanical connection before applying soldier.

I'm wondering what "an insulation equivalent to that of the conductors" means. They advertise heat shrink tubing as an insulation to cover splices. Is that an insulation "equivalent to that of the conductors".

I have to make a few connections to extend some wires in the main panel and prefer soldier connections for this purpose because they are smaller and give a more finished look.

 

[Gigfy]

Just noticed I've been mistakenly writing soldier instead of solder. Makes the sentences interesting.

 

[mrb]

although permitted if performed in a certain fashion, solder has no place in AC power wiring.

 

[mrb]

I have to make a few connections to extend some wires in the main panel and prefer soldier connections for this purpose because they are smaller and give a more finished look.

theyre not smaller if done right. Just use a wirenut (or appropriate mechanical splice for larger conductors) and be done with it.

Seeing a soldered and heatshrunk splice in building wiring says 'this was done by a car audio guy or electronics guy -not an electrician'

 

[Gigfy]

I've got 3 people that responded to the solder question, and in my opinion, all of you are very knowledgable.

Two indicated reservations about soldering, so I probably won't do it.

But I am curious what's wrong with it (other than the impression a car audio guy did the work-I'm not a car audio guy BTW).

From a safety standpoint, it gives a more secure mechanical connection than wirenuts, so I can't think why they're considered inferior.

 

[Gigfy]

"From a safety standpoint, it gives a more secure mechanical connection than wirenuts, so I can't think why they're considered inferior."

What I meant is - I can't understand why soldering is considered inferior.

 

[mrb]

the reason solder is frowned upon is that fault current (the hundreds or thousands of amps that flow during a short circuit) can cause the joint to heat enough to melt the solder. This is why ground connections must be mechanical.

 

[Gigfy]

Thanks MRB.

I would have thought the temps required to melt solder during a fault would also melt all the insulation off the wire, but maybe not.

Do you see a problem using solder at the end of a stranded wire, so that it wraps neatly around an electrical contact screw? I've seen this done on some factory AC appliances, and done the same myself.

 

[Norcal]

I despise when someone has soldered splices, they are a PITA to deal with & modern mechanical splices are far superior to antiquated soldering.

 

[Norcal]

IMO, a qualified electrical contractor would be the best solution........

 

[Gigfy]

"modern mechanical splices are far superior to antiquated soldering."


Comments like "far superior" and "antiquated" really don't tell me anything. I'm not defending soldering, instead looking for substantive evidence to refute its use. Specifically, safety issues (which have been touched upon on this thread).

"Newer", by itself, is not a criteria that guarantees improvement. For example, old Baldor motors are far superior to the new Chinese junk.

 

[mrb]

Thanks MRB.

I would have thought the temps required to melt solder during a fault would also melt all the insulation off the wire, but maybe not.

Do you see a problem using solder at the end of a stranded wire, so that it wraps neatly around an electrical contact screw? I've seen this done on some factory AC appliances, and done the same myself.

thats another BIG no-no. The solder cold flows under pressure and results in a loose connection. I do see it from time to time, and have done it myself on 18ga wire under the screws in a lampholder with no problems. Had to deal with a cnc machine with a burned up terminal strip from the factory tinning the ends of the wires instead of using ferrules or simply doing nothing. If you read the instructions for wiring devices made for stranded wire (a male plug for example) it will say do not tin the wire.

 

[Gigfy]

"thats another BIG no-no. The solder cold flows under pressure and results in a loose connection. I do see it from time to time, and have done it myself on 18ga wire under the screws in a lampholder with no problems. Had to deal with a cnc machine with a burned up terminal strip from the factory tinning the ends of the wires instead of using ferrules or simply doing nothing. If you read the instructions for wiring devices made for stranded wire (a male plug for example) it will say do not tin the wire."

Thanks for the info. I've learned some new things on this thread. Appreciate it.

 

[capt546]

Back to my original question, my house has 200 amp service, I pulled my blue prints and the garage does have 220 service courtesy of a builder who second guessed me. It was behind the freezer and never noticed it until I looked at the plans. Told the movers where to put the freezer and had not moved it since.
There is a 50 amp breaker in the box, marked garage 220.

Life is good.