Can you identify these Outlets?

[ClayW]

In my new (to me) garage:

What type of appliance, tool or torture device would one plug into these?

 

[Gooch]

In my new (to me) garage:

What type of appliance, tool or torture device would one plug into these?

top one is a 15 amp 250v recep.(window ac, welder maybe?)

bottom one is a 50 amp 125/250v recept. (stove, welder)

 

[Stuart in MN]

Here's a chart showing all the typical types of receptacles.

http://0.tqn.com/w/experts/Electrical-Wiring-Home-1734/2008/09/chart.gif

 

[Alchymist]

1st one is 240 volt , no neutral. Second is 50 amp 240 v range receptacle.

 

[ClayW]

Thanks! Now I just need to find a welder.

 

[pattenp]

Actually the second one is a dual 125/250V. This is the old style for when the range used the neutral/ground together. So technically there is no ground wire.

 

[HOTFR8]

This socket or pin shape is what we use in Australia. Although it is upside down and a very unusal and perhaps old looking socket. The same pisn pattern is now also used in China and upside down. In this situation the top centre hole would be earth.

 

[Norcal]

This socket or pin shape is what we use in Australia. Although it is upside down and a very unusal and perhaps old looking socket. The same pisn pattern is now also used in China and upside down. In this situation the top centre hole would be earth.

That range receptacle is considerably larger in size then the receptacles used in OZ & NZ, which in turn is a copy of a obsolete US configuration.

 

[HOTFR8]

That range receptacle is considerably larger in size then the receptacles used in OZ & NZ, which in turn is a copy of a obsolete US configuration.

OK, it looks the same as this to me, except the photo posted would be upside down to me

 

[Teken]

OK, it looks the same as this to me, except the photo posted would be upside down to me

I don't know about any of you but . . . That poor outlet from HOTFR8, looks so sad!

Why such a sad face?

Teken . . .

 

[Richard Cranium]

Top outlet is a 30 amp 220 volt outlet
bottom is an 50 am 220 outlet

 

[Stuart in MN]

Top outlet is a 30 amp 220 volt outlet
bottom is an 50 am 220 outlet

I think the top one is actually 15 amps...look at the chart I posted earlier and compare the sizes of 15 and 30 amp receptacles; they have the same plug configuration, but the 30 amp is quite a bit bigger.

 

[pattenp]

Top outlet is a 30 amp 220 volt outlet
bottom is an 50 am 220 outlet

And the bottom is a 125V/250V range outlet. It for dual voltage. Also 220 is not the correct voltage anymore.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Top outlet is a 30 amp 220 volt outlet
bottom is an 50 am 220 outlet

I think the top one is actually 15 amps...look at the chart I posted earlier and compare the sizes of 15 and 30 amp receptacles; they have the same plug configuration, but the 30 amp is quite a bit bigger.

Indeed, they do not make the 30 amp 240V in a duplex receptacle like that, and I don't think a 30 amp single would even fit in a handy box, would be a squeeze at best.

If you have a 120/240 air compressor, you could convert it to 240 and change the plug and run it on this receptacle most likely.

Charles

 

[Firestarter]

I would not determine the amperage and if they are usable until you check the wire size and breaker size and outlet capacity match up and make sure they are safe.

 

[nehog]

Actually #1 could be a 20 amp instead of a 15 amp. Though not shown on that chart, the P&S 5862 is rated at 20 amps.

 

[AussieDan]

The larger outlet is an old-style 125/250v 50a receptacle (NEMA 10-50R). It can be used for a welder, but you have to be careful and may need to do some work to use it safely.

Right now it will most likely be wired with black and red Hot conductors and a white Neutral. This is an ungrounded receptacle, the range would have obtained 250v across the 2 hots and 125v from hot to neutral.

A modern welder uses a 50a 3-prong plug also, but expects 2 hots and a ground (6-50R). There is no neutral in this system, since the welder just uses 250v across the 2 hots.

If that receptacle is wired back to the main panel then you may be able to re-identify the neutral as a ground with green electrical tape at both ends, and replace the existing receptacle with a new 6-50R. If it's on a sub-panel you'll also need to move the panel end of the ground wire from the neutral bus to the ground bus, since they are not interchangeable in a subpanel.

 

[pattenp]

I'm not trying to be a NEC cop, but just wanted to let you know it is not approved code to re-identify a non green insulated wire as a ground by placing green tape on it.

The larger outlet is an old-style 125/250v 50a receptacle (NEMA 10-50R). It can be used for a welder, but you have to be careful and may need to do some work to use it safely.

Right now it will most likely be wired with black and red Hot conductors and a white Neutral. This is an ungrounded receptacle, the range would have obtained 250v across the 2 hots and 125v from hot to neutral.

A modern welder uses a 50a 3-prong plug also, but expects 2 hots and a ground (6-50R). There is no neutral in this system, since the welder just uses 250v across the 2 hots.

If that receptacle is wired back to the main panel then you may be able to re-identify the neutral as a ground with green electrical tape at both ends, and replace the existing receptacle with a new 6-50R. If it's on a sub-panel you'll also need to move the panel end of the ground wire from the neutral bus to the ground bus, since they are not interchangeable in a subpanel.

 

[HOTFR8]

I don't know about any of you but . . . That poor outlet from HOTFR8, looks so sad!

Why such a sad face?

Teken . . .

I would have said it was more like

 

[tdkkart]

If that receptacle is wired back to the main panel then you may be able to re-identify the neutral as a ground with green electrical tape at both ends, and replace the existing receptacle with a new 6-50R.

And exactly difference would this make, function or safety wise??

 

[AussieDan]

I'm not trying to be a NEC cop, but just wanted to let you know it is not approved code to re-identify a non green insulated wire as a ground by placing green tape on it.

I agree that it's not usual practice, but you could make an argument that it would be allowed by 250.119 (B).

Multiconductor Cable. Where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation, one or more insulated conductors in a multiconductor cable, at the time of installation, shall be permitted to be permanently identified as equipment grounding conductors at each end and at every point where the conductors are accessible by one of the following means:
(1) Stripping the insulation from the entire exposed length
(2) Coloring the exposed insulation green
(3) Marking the exposed insulation with green tape or green adhesive labels

That said, the correct method would be to replace the existing wiring with a new run that has 2 ungrounded circuit conductors and a bare or green-insulated ground.

And exactly difference would this make, function or safety wise??

It would allow you to plug in the welder, since it will have a 6-50P 250v grounded plug, not a 10-50P 250/125v ungrounded plug. The point I was trying to make is that *if* the outlet is connected to a subpanel then the current neutral wire is not electrically the same as the ground wire required by the welder.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I agree that it's not usual practice, but you could make an argument that it would be allowed by 250.119 (B).

Originally Posted by 2008 NEC
Multiconductor Cable. Where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation, one or more insulated conductors in a multiconductor cable, at the time of installation, shall be permitted to be permanently identified as equipment grounding conductors at each end and at every point where the conductors are accessible by one of the following means:
(1) Stripping the insulation from the entire exposed length
(2) Coloring the exposed insulation green
(3) Marking the exposed insulation with green tape or green adhesive labels

As it says, the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only QUALIFIED persons service the installation............ This would have to be a factory, industrial, large commercial or other environment where you have "plant maintenance" or permanent or near permanent electrical maintenance personnel. You still run the risk of something undesirable happening.

Not something you could do in a home.

Charles

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The chart Stuart shows in post #3 is not correct. The receptacles shown for 120v 20amp, and for 240v 20 amp are incorrect.

Here is a NEMA 5-20 receptacle. It is for 120v and accepts a 15 amp plug with two vertical blades (common household plug) or it accepts the more uncommon, 20 amp plug with has one horizontal and one vertical blade.

The NEMA 5-20R shown in the chart Stuart posted does not show the T shaped slot

Here is the correct NEMA 5-20R

Same goes for the NEMA 6-20 receptacle. Here is the correct one.....

Again the one Stuart shows does not show the T shaped slot necessary to accept both the 15 amp plug 240v with two horizontal blades and the 20 amp plug with a horizontal and a vertical blade (opposite a 120v making them non-interchangable)

Charles

 

[Norcal]

As it says, the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only QUALIFIED persons service the installation............ This would have to be a factory, industrial, large commercial or other environment where you have "plant maintenance" or permanent or near permanent electrical maintenance personnel. You still run the risk of something undesirable happening.

Not something you could do in a home.Charles

A dwelling by it's very nature means "unqualified" personnel will be working on it. So I agree that that code section quoted does not apply.

 

[1Garageman]

Off the subject, I am amazed this question was answered in 11 minutes with two correct answers. This website is unbeatable!