Cant find studs behind drywall?

[99ishvr4]

I have some cabinets to hand in the garage so yesterday I started searching for studs. I measured 16" from the corner and put a small nail in the wall hoping to hit a stud. No stud. I went to the left and right of my first hole with the nail, 16" each direction and I never hit a stud. I then realized that on the other side of the wall in my living room is a recessed arch shelf in the wall. Its recessed about 6 inches and its 6 ft tall by 5 ft wide. I don't know how these recessed areas in the wall are built, but do they not put studs behind them?

That would **** because my garage is 80% concrete block walls and there is just one area of drywall. That is the area I was planning to hang the cabinets.

They are small cabinets, only 16" tall x 3ft wide each and I was going to put them side by side. Would it be dumb to just hang them on the drywall using toggle bolts? The cabinets are wood and weight maybe 10-15lbs each. I was planning on putting my stereo and 4 jackstands on top of them, and inside would be detailing stuff.

 

[ishiboo]

I suppose it's possible, but if it's drywall they would have had to have used plywood. Use a magnet to try and find the screws if there are studs/furring strips/etc. somewhere.

 

[tomd]

try not to hang on the toggle bolts.
If you take a bright light and look at a sharp angle to the wall, sometimes you can see a mud joint or a screw recess. From there, studs are likely 16 inch center, could be 24 inch too.

 

[66HertzClone]

I have one of these I purchased while our addition was going up. The GC was so inmpressed he bought on to, it just plain works.

If there is a Costco near you they may have what appears to be a private label version, the one near me in Bridgewater NJ had then as I walked in the other day. They were priced at $34.99.

 

[dlcwent]

Here on the GJ. You should have no problem finding studs. Just wait and they'll start showing up. It won't take long....wait for it.

 

[Frank Dukes]

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zircon-Corporation-StudSensor-HD55-Stud-Finder-65945/205143494

this was in the christmas deal section at HD and i think it came with a free small level if i recall correctly.

 

[buddyboy]

worst case if you can't find the studs, or the studs are too far apart or land funny...

find the top plate on the wall.

hang a sheet of plywood from that top plate, paint it to match your wall, then hang your cabinets on the plywood.

 

[99ishvr4]

I suppose it's possible, but if it's drywall they would have had to have used plywood. Use a magnet to try and find the screws if there are studs/furring strips/etc. somewhere.

I couldn't detect anything with a magnet, but it may just be my magnet isn't strong enough.

try not to hang on the toggle bolts.
If you take a bright light and look at a sharp angle to the wall, sometimes you can see a mud joint or a screw recess. From there, studs are likely 16 inch center, could be 24 inch too.

I will give this a try. Thanks

I have one of these I purchased while our addition was going up. The GC was so inmpressed he bought on to, it just plain works.

If there is a Costco near you they may have what appears to be a private label version, the one near me in Bridgewater NJ had then as I walked in the other day. They were priced at $34.99.

Its been on my list of things to buy, filling and painting little nail holes to find studs gets old. I think I will pick one up for this project.

Here on the GJ. You should have no problem finding studs. Just wait and they'll start showing up. It won't take long....wait for it.

I'm here already

worst case if you can't find the studs, or the studs are too far apart or land funny...

find the top plate on the wall.

hang a sheet of plywood from that top plate, paint it to match your wall, then hang your cabinets on the plywood.

I will keep this in mind as a last resort. Thanks

 

[shaun oriold1]

I do custom cabinets in closet, and garages. I only use a stud finder 10% of the time to locate studs... Usually I turn the lights off and use my drill's flashlight to find a nail which has popped out slightly. IF you shine your flashlight up the wall ( like you would if you were telling a ghost story around a campfire) and you'll see a nail pop somewhere.

If you're in a garage and there is living space on the back side. Then you might find that there is rigid insulation on the diving wall. I recently did slat wall in my garage, and had to use 3" screws to hit something. Here in Ontario living space must be totally sealed from garage fumes, and insulated.

Since you're putting up cabinets, dont be afraid to drill some exploratory holes behind where the cabinet will sit. You'll see whats back there, and once you find 1 stud you can find others measuring off that.

As for toggles. They'll work fine. With 5/8" drywall they have something like 250 lbs of capacity for shear weight. I use them when I hang cabinets in offices where there is steel studs. One of my original jobs, I did for my supplier is 15 years old now, and they have their upper cabinets crammed ( Jam packed full) with supplier catalogs. They haven't pulled away at all. I use 4 toggle bolts per cabinet, and 2 screws into the steel studs. Rock solid! - Keep in mind that the toggle works best when there is no insulation in the walls. Insulation will sometimes prevent it from pivoting, and sitting square to the drywall, making it hard to get the bolt in.

 

[James E]

Maybe there are no studs in the back of the recessed archway and you've just got a header over the top of it?

 

[VersionOne]

If you have a strong magnet (neodymium), you can use that to locate the screw/nails which will in turn lead you to stud location and your on-center spacing.
I also like to use a small finish nail when checking for wood studs.
Another possibility as mentioned above is that that particular wall has two layers of drywall. That's done when extra fire protection and insulation is needed. If that's the case, simply using longer screws will help you to penetrate through to the studs. Ideally, 1" of penetration is sufficient (in the stud) and plenty strong for your application.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Just for the record, an infrared camera is excellent at finding studs (as long as there's a temperature difference between the 2 rooms.) I know, most don't have one, but I figure it's worth saying.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Maybe there are no studs in the back of the recessed archway and you've just got a header over the top of it?

It's quite possible. Some people do some rather dumb stuff when it's remodeling time. We have a wall in the dining area of our kitchen that has no studs over a 5-6 ft span, they just hung drywall and wall papered over it.

 

[readhead]

Find an outlet or switch. The box is nailed to a stud. Go from there.

 

[BD1]

Did you try 24'' centers ?

 

[rburke65]

I like the idea from Shaun oriold2.... You won't see the holes after the cabinets have been installed.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Find an outlet or switch. The box is nailed to a stud. Go from there.

Not necessarily, if they used a "old work" box during a remodel, it may have tabs that swing up/down by a screw. . . . hopefully they used a box and not just an outlet stuffed in the wall.

 

[Joe Reed]

Even if the studs are 16" OC there's no guarantee one would be 16" from that corner....they could have started the framing from the other end of the wall and the stud you're looking for could easily be closer to the corner.

When you didn't locate a stud with the first nail, why did you expect to find one by going 16" either direction? I don't understand the logic of that approach...

 

[johninct]

Last week had to hang a TV on the wall for my wife. My stud finder was right but I didn't believe 19" on center so I made a line across the wall by making tiny holes with a small nail.

 

[75gmck25]

I've gone through this type of exploration on my 1940 vintage house, and sometimes its not worth it to be extra careful with small holes or special cameras to look inside the wall. If you pick an area that will be behind the new cabinets you can use a saw like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-6-in-Fixed-Jab-Saw-48-22-0304/202206142 to cut a square hole in the sheetrock (about 4"-6" square) so that you can get a good view into the wall. The saw is designed so you can hit the handle with a hammer and make a plunge cut into the drywall. Then I just saw around the perimeter of the hole.

A simple square or round hole is relatively easy to patch. They sell metal drywall clips at the big box stores (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wal-Board-Tools-Drywall-Repair-Clip-6-Pack-54-014/202015408) and you can use the clips with drywall screws to hold the cutout piece back in the hole. Then use drywall tape and compound to patch the edges of the cutout. Use a large drywall sanding sheet and holder (something like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wal-Board-Tools-3-1-4-in-x-9-1-4-in-Plastic-Hand-Sander-88-006/100403174) to sand down the compound. The large flat holder will span the cutout and make it easier to evenly sand out any high spots in the compound.

I've used this technique to cut holes to fish wiring or get access to plumbing junctions, and it does not take much practice to get fairly good at patching the hole. Its much easier to troubleshoot when you can actually see through the hole to figure out why things within the wall don't seem to be what you expected.

Bruce

 

[vhol5]

Just for the record, an infrared camera is excellent at finding studs (as long as there's a temperature difference between the 2 rooms.) I know, most don't have one, but I figure it's worth saying.

This ^^^^
Looks like an X-ray!

 

[RivennHewn]

I just tap my knuckle against the wall and find a spot that sounds different.

 

[DenisG]

If you're in a garage and there is living space on the back side. Then you might find that there is rigid insulation on the diving wall. I recently did slat wall in my garage, and had to use 3" screws to hit something. Here in Ontario living space must be totally sealed from garage fumes, and insulated.

Yep, this is what I found when I tried to mount shelves in my garage (1" blue rigid insulation behind the drywall). No wonder the studs didn't show up with my stud finder. I found some of the drywall screws holding up the drywall, figured that there must be studs behind them and measured off 16" marks. I ended up using 4" long screws for the ClosetMaid type standards for my wire shelves. Good and strong.

 

[the gypsy]

I guess it is possible that they used 19 or very close to 19 OC. I have heard that some people are starting to adopt this measurement if not a load bearing wall, this is in newer construction. Or in older homes it can also be every 12 inches and not necessarily exact measurements. It is possible it be11 3/4 or 12 1/4, in old construction nothing was exact.

 

[Scott r c]

Possible that its not a load bearing wall and they ran the boards horizontal like you would in a pole barn.

 

[The Cobbler]

when you puncture thru the drywall with the nail or whatever you're using, how much space is there until you hit resistance ? ( drywall on inside house)
could there be z bar on the garage side for noise deadening? that would run perpendicular to the studs ( horizontal) and make for a 1/2" gap between the drywall & studs.

 

[KenC]

I have some cabinets to hand in the garage so yesterday I started searching for studs. I measured 16" from the corner and put a small nail in the wall hoping to hit a stud. No stud. I went to the left and right of my first hole with the nail, 16" each direction and I never hit a stud. I then realized that on the other side of the wall in my living room is a recessed arch shelf in the wall. Its recessed about 6 inches and its 6 ft tall by 5 ft wide. I don't know how these recessed areas in the wall are built, but do they not put studs behind them?

That would **** because my garage is 80% concrete block walls and there is just one area of drywall. That is the area I was planning to hang the cabinets.

They are small cabinets, only 16" tall x 3ft wide each and I was going to put them side by side. Would it be dumb to just hang them on the drywall using toggle bolts? The cabinets are wood and weight maybe 10-15lbs each. I was planning on putting my stereo and 4 jackstands on top of them, and inside would be detailing stuff.

The part italicized above is an incorrect way to locate studs. Usually the 16" measurement is not from the inside corner, but is started on the outside of the framing. At least that's true on all the homes I've framed/helped frame and those we've remodeled. Try estimating that measurement and see if one doesn't appear! Or just go buy a stud finder. Even the cheapies seem to work OK for me.

 

[Rock knocker]

But it sounds like after the first nail, he went 16" R and L of the first. So he should have hit something unless there is horizontal strapping on the wall

 

[SLYDIT]

i bought a stud finder and its great. it saves soooo much time. mine has a little laser light on it. it makes scanning walls so easy. would not be without it.
the local house inspectors use infa red to find leaky building works . you can find internal wet wood even though the surface is ok.

 

[kazlx]

But it sounds like after the first nail, he went 16" R and L of the first. So he should have hit something unless there is horizontal strapping on the wall

He said he didn't hit a stud and then went left and right and didn't hit studs...no surprise there...

 

[99ishvr4]

I should have worded it better on the 16” either direction, I put the nail in about one inch apart 16” in each direction. So I have like 32 holes in the wall. I did not think of insulation, so its possible that my nail wouldn't have been long enough to reach a stud, I'll see if a longer nail hits anything in the existing holes and go from there. Thanks everyone for all the different suggestions. I'll let you know what I find out.

 

[bartz32tt]

You could always hang a metal bracket to act as a "french cleat" for the cabinet(s) on the concrete wall. My cabinets came with them. Buy a concrete nailer ($20) and go to town. Not sure what your space looks like, but the concrete was your only limiting factor, then I'm just letting you know that it doesn't have to be.

 

[38Chevy454]

I agree those small stud finders work pretty good. Better on smoother surfaces than rough, but they do give a good idea where to start further investigation for a stud.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Mark out the width of the cabinets with a level, then mark off the height. start in the middle, and 1/2 inch down from the top, start cutting a horizontal slot. The idea is that you are going to cut out a rectangle of drywall and insert a piece of plywood into the rectangle onto the studs, or whatever you find in the cavity. If you find nothing, you will have to put something in, but generally, inserting a piece of plywood into the drywall will find you something to hang the plywood off of, and give you solid support to hang your cabinets. Generally I would only run the plywood to the center of the last stud on either end of the run, and not to the edge of the cabinet.

You do this to add support where there is inadequate support. Otherwise, take a drill with a long bit and start drilling a hole every 1 inch. Keep drilling. If there is nothing there, you will figure it out. If you are cutting, don't cut any wires. If you are drilling, don't drill any pipes.

You are hanging cabinets. The wall does not have to be pristine behind them. Fixing the wall is something you do when you take the cabinets down.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

I've gone through this type of exploration on my 1940 vintage house, and sometimes its not worth it to be extra careful with small holes or special cameras to look inside the wall. If you pick an area that will be behind the new cabinets you can use a saw like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-6-in-Fixed-Jab-Saw-48-22-0304/202206142 to cut a square hole in the sheetrock (about 4"-6" square) so that you can get a good view into the wall. The saw is designed so you can hit the handle with a hammer and make a plunge cut into the drywall. Then I just saw around the perimeter of the hole.

A simple square or round hole is relatively easy to patch. They sell metal drywall clips at the big box stores (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wal-Board-Tools-Drywall-Repair-Clip-6-Pack-54-014/202015408) and you can use the clips with drywall screws to hold the cutout piece back in the hole. Then use drywall tape and compound to patch the edges of the cutout. Use a large drywall sanding sheet and holder (something like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wal-Board-Tools-3-1-4-in-x-9-1-4-in-Plastic-Hand-Sander-88-006/100403174) to sand down the compound. The large flat holder will span the cutout and make it easier to evenly sand out any high spots in the compound.

I've used this technique to cut holes to fish wiring or get access to plumbing junctions, and it does not take much practice to get fairly good at patching the hole. Its much easier to troubleshoot when you can actually see through the hole to figure out why things within the wall don't seem to be what you expected.

Bruce

After screwing around a few times, people get much more willing to get to the heart of things.

 

[3axap]

I found that in my garage the walls adjoining living space have drywall, blue foam insulation, OSB and finally studs...no stud finder that I could locate locally can go through 1.5" of wall to reliably find studs. Luckily, I had construction photos and used those to get an idea of where the studs were. Your best bet is likely the outlet idea and as others suggested the nail/drywall screw technique. If this is a one story house and you have attic access to the top of the wall, you may be able to get some clues on stud location from that. HTH

 

[jmarkwolf]

Yep, this is what I found when I tried to mount shelves in my garage (1" blue rigid insulation behind the drywall). No wonder the studs didn't show up with my stud finder.

You're saying they sandwiched this rigid foam board between the drywall and the studs? That's highly unusual isn't it?

I'm helping my brother hang shelves in his garage. He just moved, in but the house was built about 10 years ago.

We found studs all along one (exterior) wall with my trusty stud finder, but could locate nothing on the opposite wall. Might be a closet on the far side of this wall.