Car ball joint tigtening

[sgtmac]

I'm an airplane guy so I am going to ask a silly car question.

I recently had my Nissan Xterra safety inspection done and the guy said my upper ball joints were worn out.

An auto tech I know said the xterras typically do not wear out ball joints.

My question is this: the ball joints are secures with a stud, castellated nut and cotter pin arrangement. I'm wondering why couldn't I try and tighten the nut to to take up some of the wear?

P.s. The car tracks true down the road, does not pull and makes no clunking loose ball joints noises.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Its a ball and socket design. Tightening it will not have any effect on it being less worn out.

If you hip was worn out you couldn't just push your leg up into your hip and magically fix it. You would have to replace it.

 

[pattenp]

The wear is in the ball and socket. Tighting the stud nut does not tighten the ball socket.

 

[Slick111]

Jack a wheel off the ground grab hold at the top of the wheel/tire pull and push in and out should not move at all if it does the ball joint is worn also some ball joints are a Morris taper design once they are tightened down into the bore when brand new that's it but some are also held in by three bolts and only get so tight as well.

 

[sgtmac]

Thanks guys, I pulled an exploded view of the joint design and now see this is an official "dumb question".

 

[Chaplian]

Jack a wheel off the ground grab hold at the top of the wheel/tire pull and push in and out should not move at all if it does the ball joint is worn also some ball joints are a Morris taper design once they are tightened down into the bore when brand new that's it but some are also held in by three bolts and only get so tight as well.

I've had loose/creaking/clunking ball joints that you couldn't get to show play or make noise by shaking the wheel. Had to take the wheel off, shove my biggest pry bar in there and then I finally saw some play.

 

[bwringer]

Do airplanes have ball joints?

I don't think so, at least not in the suspension in "mainstream" aircraft. I'm sure there's some guy in England who built an airplane in his shed with ball joints...

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I'm sure there's some guy in England who built an airplane in his shed with ball joints...

Probably made out of "Aluminium"...

Tommy

 

[PCustoms]

What year and milage?

And yes, they do wear out. Not sure why your Auto Tech buddy would say otherwise.

Here is the BEST place for any Xterra info

 

[rlitman]

Do airplanes have ball joints?

I don't think so, at least not in the suspension in "mainstream" aircraft. I'm sure there's some guy in England who built an airplane in his shed with ball joints...

Absolutely they do. Spherical bearings are used all over the place in airplanes. MUCH more than you seem them in cars. In fact, it was invented for use in aircraft.

 

[steveo1o9]

Yeah your Tech buddy definitely misinformed you. I have a 2007 and have done all the ball joints except one lower so far. I have actually had to replace most of the suspension parts on this thing at 168k miles. I found that if you have a bad upper it is easier to just replace the entire upper control arm instead of mess around trying to press in a new joint. A complete upper with new joint will run around $50 and is a simple driveway repair, no special tools needed.

 

[Fastfish]

Agree with all above... Just wanted to add in defense of the auto tech buddy, many Japanese vehicles do not wear out ball joints as fast as american suv's like the dodge durango......and that may have been what he meant.

 

[engineer2]

Out-of-balance or out-of-round tires will wear out suspension components faster.

 

[Dr Stan]

Agree with all above... Just wanted to add in defense of the auto tech buddy, many Japanese vehicles do not wear out ball joints as fast as american suv's like the dodge durango......and that may have been what he meant.

And I surmise the tech has some waterfront property for sale in NE Nebraska, an area called the Sand Hills.

 

[rlitman]

Out-of-balance or out-of-round tires will wear out suspension components faster.

And worn ball joints will cup the tires. We're going full circle here. Vehicles need maintenance.

I will add that you can get better ball joints than the typical plastic ones.

 

[braidmeister]

Probably made out of "Aircraft Aluminium"...

Tommy

Fixed it for ya.

 

[ScottsGT]

Agree with all above... Just wanted to add in defense of the auto tech buddy, many Japanese vehicles do not wear out ball joints as fast as american suv's like the dodge durango......and that may have been what he meant.

Man, those wore out pulling off the lot! I've seen a few on the side of the road where they broke with the tire leaning in like a race prepped Miata. Fortunately, all the ones I saw were in low speed areas. Hate to see one give up the ghost at interstate speeds.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Man, those wore out pulling off the lot! I've seen a few on the side of the road where they broke with the tire leaning in like a race prepped Miata. Fortunately, all the ones I saw were in low speed areas. Hate to see one give up the ghost at interstate speeds.

I put one in a Dakota with 800 miles

 

[rburke65]

Airplane guy....never a dumb question. Trust me....others on here are going....hey I didn't know that!

 

[pattenp]

Some ball joints have wear indicators and may indicate the ball joint needs replacing even though the push-pull test doesn't show any looseness.

 

[brownbagg]

they test the ball joint by wiggling the rotor. if the wheel bearing is loose, it will feel the same, but at tire stores, ball joints and wheel bearing are their gravy, so they going be bad no matter how good there are

 

[WhiffySpark]

they test the ball joint by wiggling the rotor. if the wheel bearing is loose, it will feel the same, but at tire stores, ball joints and wheel bearing are their gravy, so they going be bad no matter how good there are

I've never once heard that.

And no a bad ball joint doesn't feel the same as a bad bearing.

 

[ScottsGT]

Happened to me with a tie rod end. Sent my son for an alignment on his '95 Mustang. He called me and told me they said the tie outer tie rod end was bad and they wanted $150 to change it. $75 for the part, $75 for labor. Told him to bring the car home, we'll do it. Went and bought two ends for $60 and installed them in the rain in less than an hour. What pissed me off, the one's I removed were perfectly fine. I didn't even check them before buying, just wanted to get it done.
I had it out with the manager/owner of the shop. It was not pretty. Needless to say, I warn everyone about that place now.

 

[bobcat]

To test a ball joint correctly , raise the tire off the ground and put a pry bar under the tire . Raise the tire up and down while looking at the ball joint for movement . Moving the tire in and out ( hands at 12:00 AND 6:00 o`clock ) tests for wheel bearing play and introduces another variable in the BJ test .
As others have said , some ball joints have wear indicators on them you can check . Whatever you do , put grease fittings in the new ball joint so you can grease it . It will extend the life .

 

[WhiffySpark]

Happened to me with a tie rod end. Sent my son for an alignment on his '95 Mustang. He called me and told me they said the tie outer tie rod end was bad and they wanted $150 to change it. $75 for the part, $75 for labor. Told him to bring the car home, we'll do it. Went and bought two ends for $60 and installed them in the rain in less than an hour. What pissed me off, the one's I removed were perfectly fine. I didn't even check them before buying, just wanted to get it done.
I had it out with the manager/owner of the shop. It was not pretty. Needless to say, I warn everyone about that place now.

So why did you bother changing them if they were "perfectly fine"?

 

[ScottsGT]

Started swapping in the rain, didn't check until I had them off.

Yea, I now quit trusting mechanics.

 

[Tech89]

Started swapping in the rain, didn't check until I had them off.

Yea, I now quit trusting mechanics.

Not all of us are like that.

-Pat

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[disston]

Bad ball joints are fixed by replacing them.

Test by having the tire off the ground the vehicle supported by the jack under the A frame portion of the steering. Wiggle the tire by pushing and pulling at 12 and 6 o'clock of the wheel. If movement is felt then look for where the movement is while wiggling. You will see the movement in a bad ball joint.

Not fixing a bad ball joint and continuing to drive a car with this problem you risk having a catastrophic breakdown with no warning. The ball joint can break free and separate from the rest of the suspension with the wheel not being held in alignment. If this happens at speed the car will be difficult to impossible to control. Can happen when turning or on a straightaway.

For some reason I think I see more cars these days with this problem on the road. I passed one this morning. It was some European car but I forget which.

Ball joints and most other front end parts are not greased anymore. I don't think mechanics spend anytime looking at them let alone testing them so they are on the road.

I look at mine and pay attention to the front end. I also have a full size Ford which has big front end parts. Ford front ends have bigger parts than other full size cars is my experience.

 

[bigdav160]

Y'all know, your testing methods depend on suspension type and whether the ball joint is load bearing or not? I think some of you are testing your ball joints incorrectly.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Bad ball joints are fixed by replacing them.

Test by having the tire off the ground the vehicle supported by the jack under the A frame portion of the steering. Wiggle the tire by pushing and pulling at 12 and 6 o'clock of the wheel. If movement is felt then look for where the movement is while wiggling. You will see the movement in a bad ball joint.

Not fixing a bad ball joint and continuing to drive a car with this problem you risk having a catastrophic breakdown with no warning. The ball joint can break free and separate from the rest of the suspension with the wheel not being held in alignment. If this happens at speed the car will be difficult to impossible to control. Can happen when turning or on a straightaway.

For some reason I think I see more cars these days with this problem on the road. I passed one this morning. It was some European car but I forget which.

Ball joints and most other front end parts are not greased anymore. I don't think mechanics spend anytime looking at them let alone testing them so they are on the road.

I look at mine and pay attention to the front end. I also have a full size Ford which has big front end parts. Ford front ends have bigger parts than other full size cars is my experience.

99% of the time wiggling the tire at 12 and 6 won't show a bad ball joint.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Started swapping in the rain, didn't check until I had them off.

Yea, I now quit trusting mechanics.

You can't always feel play with it off the car. I've had some that had a lot of play on the car but when you remove them you can't feel anything.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Thanks guys, I pulled an exploded view of the joint design and now see this is an official "dumb question".

not really. Modern cars don't have rebuildable ball joints. There are some that are.

Happened to me with a tie rod end. Sent my son for an alignment on his '95 Mustang. He called me and told me they said the tie outer tie rod end was bad and they wanted $150 to change it. $75 for the part, $75 for labor. Told him to bring the car home, we'll do it. Went and bought two ends for $60 and installed them in the rain in less than an hour. What pissed me off, the one's I removed were perfectly fine. I didn't even check them before buying, just wanted to get it done.
I had it out with the manager/owner of the shop. It was not pretty. Needless to say, I warn everyone about that place now.

I had new Moog bushings and ball joints on UCA and LCA of a light truck I took in for an alignment about 10 years ago. They called to let me know the ball joints were bad. Their shop had a front customer door that was about 6 feet wide and I put a whole lot of love into slamming that so of a *****. The parking lot confrontation was entertaining too.

Y'all know, your testing methods depend on suspension type and whether the ball joint is load bearing or not? I think some of you are testing your ball joints incorrectly.

Absolutely.

 

[johnnyradiant]

..... Whatever you do , put grease fittings in the new ball joint so you can grease it . It will extend the life .

but only if you promise to regularly put a grease gun on the fittings to refill them with fresh grease or at least pay somebody to do it for you.

 

[RobSmith]

Be careful ...a lot of inspection places say things are worn ..only to create more business and revenue for themselves. I had this happen regularly and loved the look on their faces when I said I will check it and fix it myself. Only to return and say there's nothing wrong ..get the manager.

 

[dave89iroc]

Y'all know, your testing methods depend on suspension type and whether the ball joint is load bearing or not? I think some of you are testing your ball joints incorrectly.

Correct, and agreed

 

[Bloodystumps]

Y'all know, your testing methods depend on suspension type and whether the ball joint is load bearing or not? I think some of you are testing your ball joints incorrectly.

Correct, lots of variables with todays cars you can't just shake at 6 and 12 and expect to get results.

You can't always feel play with it off the car. I've had some that had a lot of play on the car but when you remove them you can't feel anything.

100% and thats why lots of people see mechanics as crooks they don't always understand how somethings work and just go ape ****.

A lot of my alignments come from other shops and before I do anything I check the front end and I still catch quite a few bad parts that they missed.

That does not mean I am over selling it means customers and techs a like still don't know how to check a front end.

 

[disston]

Y'all know, your testing methods depend on suspension type and whether the ball joint is load bearing or not? I think some of you are testing your ball joints incorrectly.

The lower ball joint on my Crown Victoria carries the weight. The spring is set in the lower A frame, therefore the weight. Placing a floor jack under the lower A frame and jacking it off the ground removes the weight of the car from the wheel. Now the wheel has no weight on it and pushing and pulling the top and bottom will show a bad ball joint. At least in my book. Can't see any reason why a bad ball joint wouldn't be found with this method.

If I had a different car I would own a manual for that car. After the manual I think I would ask some forum for advice. I like the practical methods but it's good to know what the manual says to start with.

Just noticed that this thread was about a Nissan Xterra? No idea what the fronts are like. My bad. Apologies.

 

[WhiffySpark]

Because ball joints generally don't have lateral movement. It's up and down. A lower ball joint on a strut or an upper control arm sometimes has lateral movement