Car charger wiring

[supratreo]

hi, i'm looking into installing an outlet for a car charger but i'm not able to run a dedicated circuit. i went into the attic space and found that i have #6 wires that go to my oven. i'm considering using Polaris multitaps to split this to the charger. this is on a 50A circuit. is this acceptable?
thanks

 

[jeepxj]

no.

where is your dryer located? something like this works:

Splitter Switches - Splitvolt

With the longer ranges of EV batteries today charging from, a 120-volt socket is just too slow! But having an electrician come out and add a dedicated 240-volt socket takes extra time and money. The Splitvolt Splitter Switch is the perfect EV charging accessory that allows you to intelligently and…

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[mike93lx]

No. You could put a subpanel on the line, then split from that, but the wiring may not be long enough and the panel would have to remain accessible

 

[jim111]

If you can't run a dedicated circuit from your existing main panel, upgrade your panel or service as necessary.

 

[jeepxj]

No. You could put a subpanel on the line, then split from that, but the wiring may not be long enough and the panel would have to remain accessible

ehh bad idea. you'll be tripping the breaker anytime the car is charging and the wife wants to bake something.

 

[mike93lx]

ehh bad idea. you'll be tripping the breaker anytime the car is charging and the wife wants to bake something.

No argument there...just listing an option.

My folks put one of those split volt devices on their dryer line. Yet to be used, but it seems like a decent option.

Not sure how it would get installed in the OP's case though. I doubt the range's plug is accessible

 

[jeepxj]

No argument there...just listing an option.

My folks put one of those split volt devices on their dryer line. Yet to be used, but it seems like a decent option.

Not sure how it would get installed in the OP's case though. I doubt the range's plug is accessible

neocharge is another option:

NeoCharge Smart Splitter

Explore how to save money on home EV charging installation with the NeoCharge Smart Splitter. Get easy EV charging access without needing an electrician. Install yourself. Save money. Take charge.

www.getneocharge.com

these are great for condo/multi family installs where the car parking area is closer to the meter than the panel:

DCC-9-50A-3R | EV Energy Management | Splitter Box 120/240-208V, Max 125A, 50A Breaker included, NEMA 3R Enclosure

DCC-9 is an EV Energy Management System, specifically designed to allow the connection of a charger to the main feeder of a panel without affecting the load calculation – ideal for condo installations.

shop.dcc-usa.technology

 

[mike93lx]

Looks like the neocharge folks need to learn how to properly coil a cord...

The dcc-9 could probably work for the OP, but at $1200, I'd be figuring out a way to add a dedicated circuit if it was me

 

[supratreo]

thank you for all the replies.
dryer is no where near the garage and i'm not sure if the oven is plugged in or hardwired as its a built-in unit.
if this issue is just tripping the breaker then that's not a huge concern as we use that oven 3-4 times a year and the car is programed to charge at 2am anyway.
do they make a split volt device that is hardwired? i can cut the wires and install plugs but id rather not have that setup in the attic, id feel more comfortable with all of the connections being in a box.

 

[supratreo]

actually, just saw the link a few posts up. $1,150 gezzzzzzz.

 

[supratreo]

Looks like the neocharge folks need to learn how to properly coil a cord...

The dcc-9 could probably work for the OP, but at $1200, I'd be figuring out a way to add a dedicated circuit if it was me

your exactly right.
just out of curiousity, what is the reason for using one of these? is it just so that it will cut power to the EV so the breaker doesnt trip?

 

[Sumboodie]

How big of a charger do you have? All the chargers I own draw a few amps at most.

 

[nh_yota]

thank you for all the replies.
dryer is no where near the garage and i'm not sure if the oven is plugged in or hardwired as its a built-in unit.
if this issue is just tripping the breaker then that's not a huge concern as we use that oven 3-4 times a year and the car is programed to charge at 2am anyway.
do they make a split volt device that is hardwired? i can cut the wires and install plugs but id rather not have that setup in the attic, id feel more comfortable with all of the connections being in a box.

I believe NEC says that for outlets over 20a you can only have one outlet per circuit. This comes up all the time on GJ when people want to add multiple welder outlets to their garage. Once you go from plug-in to hardwired it becomes part of the circuit.

 

[dcg9381]

How big of a charger do you have? All the chargers I own draw a few amps at most.

Per my electrician, they wire most homes for EV at 60A (48A continuous). I've been doing them at 50A. Most chargers allow you to set the charge rate.

 

[mike93lx]

your exactly right.
just out of curiousity, what is the reason for using one of these? is it just so that it will cut power to the EV so the breaker doesnt trip?

Yes. It doesn't allow the EV to charge when the dryer is running. Not sure if they prioritize the dryer, haven't really looked at them.

Where is the panel? What is precluding you from running a dedicated circuit?

 

[supratreo]

I believe NEC says that for outlets over 20a you can only have one outlet per circuit. This comes up all the time on GJ when people want to add multiple welder outlets to their garage. Once you go from plug-in to hardwired it becomes part of the circuit.

i never knew this. thank you very much.

 

[supratreo]

Yes. It doesn't allow the EV to charge when the dryer is running. Not sure if they prioritize the dryer, haven't really looked at them.

Where is the panel? What is precluding you from running a dedicated circuit?

i actually have a sub panel in this garage but the way the roofing is designed, i cant simply drill up and go into the attic. when we built the house we ran conduit up for just this reason but when i went up there thinking this would be case i see that someone had used the conduit to run the wire for the oven.
now id have to drill through numerous blocks, and cut the wall and ceiling to fish something through. i wanted to avoid doing anything like that as i'll probably never be able to get the patches to look right again.
its a little hard to explain but i've tried drilling and i dont think its happening, this is why we originally ran the conduit.

 

[mike93lx]

Is the sub out of capacity? Can you do surface mount wiring instead (emt conduit)?

Why do you need to go into the attic?

 

[Sumboodie]

Per my electrician, they wire most homes for EV at 60A (48A continuous). I've been doing them at 50A. Most chargers allow you to set the charge rate.

EV is what?

I have a 200 amp charger, but it draws under 15 amps 120v

 

[jeepxj]

thank you for all the replies.
dryer is no where near the garage and i'm not sure if the oven is plugged in or hardwired as its a built-in unit.
if this issue is just tripping the breaker then that's not a huge concern as we use that oven 3-4 times a year and the car is programed to charge at 2am anyway.
do they make a split volt device that is hardwired? i can cut the wires and install plugs but id rather not have that setup in the attic, id feel more comfortable with all of the connections being in a box.

well if you wanna go ghetto 2 HVAC 50a contactors with a 120v coil and a 3 position wall switch could get you what you want....

but now im thinking you could in theory do a smart switch for the coil to energize the EV charger at 11pm-6am nightly then the oven works during the daytime without having to take all the effort to flip the switch those few times a year.

 

[jeepxj]

EV is what?

I have a 200 amp charger, but it draws under 15 amps 120v

my EV pulls 48a at 240v.

 

[Sumboodie]

my EV pulls 48a at 240v.

Still have no idea what EV is, so... ok I guess?

 

[jeepxj]

Still have no idea what EV is, so... ok I guess?

electric vehicle? in the original post he says "car charger".

 

[supratreo]

Is the sub out of capacity? Can you do surface mount wiring instead (emt conduit)?

Why do you need to go into the attic?

panel has room for one more 2 pole. i can easily do surface mount but i was trying to have a cleaner look. panel is on the front side of the garage but i need the charger on the back side by the garage door. if i can get the wire up to the attic i can drop it exactly where i need it.

 

[mike93lx]

panel has room for one more 2 pole. i can easily do surface mount but i was trying to have a cleaner look. panel is on the front side of the garage but i need the charger on the back side by the garage door. if i can get the wire up to the attic i can drop it exactly where i need it.

Tandems can be used (in most panels) to add capacity.

I would use some conduit or do some drywall patching long before running an adapter box.

What size is the conduit into the attic? If there is room for 3 more wires, you may be able to use that

 

[supratreo]

well if you wanna go ghetto 2 HVAC 50a contactors with a 120v coil and a 3 position wall switch could get you what you want....

but now im thinking you could in theory do a smart switch for the coil to energize the EV charger at 11pm-6am nightly then the oven works during the daytime without having to take all the effort to flip the switch those few times a year.

thats a great idea. i'm sure i can put something together to make that work but that box with the contactors would have to be in the attic. would that be legal/safe? i know contactors get mounted in wall boxes all the time so i might already know the answer haha.

 

[supratreo]

Tandems can be used (in most panels) to add capacity.

I would use some conduit or do some drywall patching long before running an adapter box.

What size is the conduit into the attic? If there is room for 3 more wires, you may be able to use that

i believe its 1", whatever it is theres def not room for more wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No argument there...just listing an option.

My folks put one of those split volt devices on their dryer line. Yet to be used, but it seems like a decent option.

Not sure how it would get installed in the OP's case though. I doubt the range's plug is accessible

split volt device? what is that?

 

[jeepxj]

thats a great idea. i'm sure i can put something together to make that work but that box with the contactors would have to be in the attic. would that be legal/safe? i know contactors get mounted in wall boxes all the time so i might already know the answer haha.

i believe that answer is no since you're splitting a 240v circuit.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I believe NEC says that for outlets over 20a you can only have one outlet per circuit. This comes up all the time on GJ when people want to add multiple welder outlets to their garage. Once you go from plug-in to hardwired it becomes part of the circuit.

thats not an NEC prohibition. its an IRC/international residential code...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Still have no idea what EV is, so... ok I guess?

an electric vehicle....

 

[jeepxj]

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[mike93lx]

split volt device? what is that?

Linked by @jeepxj . Allows you to use a dryer circuit to run both a dryer and a ev

 

[jeepxj]

not UL listed ... yet.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

not UL listed ... yet.

not required to be. just needs to be listed by an NRTL and UL is one out of many

 

[jeepxj]

not required to be. just needs to be listed by an NRTL and UL is one out of many

ETL! the mark of the beast!

 

[Sumboodie]

electric vehicle? in the original post he says "car charger". Car charger to me meant this...

Wasn't explained well. Had no idea it was a special charger for a cordless car.

I had in mind a normal charger that has been common for probably 80 years now.
Like thus-

Schumacher SC1445 250/50/25/10 Amp Manual Wheel Car Charger with Engine Start https://a.co/4tZlnC9

 

[jeepxj]

Wasn't explained well. Had no idea it was a special charger for a cordless car.

I had in mind a normal charger that has been common for probably 80 years now.
Like thus-

Schumacher SC1445 250/50/25/10 Amp Manual Wheel Car Charger with Engine Start https://a.co/4tZlnC9

ahhh yes. didnt think of it that way. but this sorta ends up like a parkway vs driveway nomenclature.


a "battery charger" for a car is what you linked. 12v

a "car charger" is an EV charger.

 

[mike93lx]

ahhh yes. didnt think of it that way. but this sorta ends up like a parkway vs driveway nomenclature.


a "battery charger" for a car is what you linked. 12v

a "car charger" is an EV charger.

EV is a weird, new fangled term. Kids today...

 

[justsam]

Actually the proper industry term is EVSE, (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment). The fact of the matter is that none of the residential units are "chargers". They all output the same AC source that is input to them. They are strictly an intelligent, to some level, interface box. Note that Tesla calls their units "mobile connector" or "wall connector". Really a better descriptive term. No EV car maker is going to let some third party system actually "charge" a $20k battery. All is done via the vehicles internal Battery Management System, or BMS. DC chargers such as Electrify America andTesla SuperChargers are a whole different animal and there are industry protocols in place to properly charge from them. They truly are chargers.