Car suggestions/Advice... who me?

[TRC51]

Never thought I would need this, but I am hoping you guys might be able to point me in the right direction... or steer me clear of the wrong direction. Here is the scenario:

I am former motorcycle racer looking to get myself a "fun car". I am going to ask this car to be extremely well rounded because I am going to everything with it (on the hobby level only). Autocross, drag race, track days, daily commuting, street race, carry the kids.... yes, I said that last one. I told you I need a well rounded car. Note that I am looking at USED cars only and the price range is from $20 - $30K. I would highly prefer the car to be a V8, just for the engine sound.

I am in the process of building my garage right now (hopefully start the thread soon) and will be putting something in it when it's up. I got on this kick with an opportunity to purchase a 2007 Mustang GT with only 4kmi on it and an intercooled FRPP whipple supercharger on it. The car also has thousands of dollars in wheels, tires, body and other handling mods and he is only asking NADA value for the car. It's a good deal, but I am hesitant to buy the car wondering if it would suit the need mentioned above. So I started to look around at what else I could buy for the money. Here are the other cars I have considered:

05 - 07 Cadillac CTSV (Great car, but I have heard they do no hold together well in the higher mileage).

00 - 03 BMW M5 (typically higher mileage, but durable from what I hear).

Can anyone tell me if I should run and hide from buying either of the cars above? Would they suit my need? Too expensive to fix? Should I just go with the Mustang because it would be cheaper to repair?

The biggest question... is there another car out there that I should consider? I love the M3 and the reviews it gets, but I can only afford the years with the 6 cyclinder (still a great car in every way, but I would really like a V8).

Thanks for your input, GJ members.


How did this get here? This was supposed to be in FREE PARKING. Sorry... can someone move this please?

 

[TAMPAGT07]

Never thought I would need this, but I am hoping you guys might be able to point me in the right direction... or steer me clear of the wrong direction. Here is the scenario:

I am former motorcycle racer looking to get myself a "fun car". I am going to ask this car to be extremely well rounded because I am going to everything with it (on the hobby level only). Autocross, drag race, track days, daily commuting, street race, carry the kids.... yes, I said that last one. I told you I need a well rounded car. Note that I am looking at USED cars only and the price range is from $20 - $30K. I would highly prefer the car to be a V8, just for the engine sound.

I am in the process of building my garage right now (hopefully start the thread soon) and will be putting something in it when it's up. I got on this kick with an opportunity to purchase a 2007 Mustang GT with only 4kmi on it and an intercooled FRPP whipple supercharger on it. The car also has thousands of dollars in wheels, tires, body and other handling mods and he is only asking NADA value for the car. It's a good deal, but I am hesitant to buy the car wondering if it would suit the need mentioned above. So I started to look around at what else I could buy for the money. Here are the other cars I have considered:

05 - 07 Cadillac CTSV (Great car, but I have heard they do no hold together well in the higher mileage).

00 - 03 BMW M5 (typically higher mileage, but durable from what I hear).

Can anyone tell me if I should run and hide from buying either of the cars above? Would they suit my need? Too expensive to fix? Should I just go with the Mustang because it would be cheaper to repair?

The biggest question... is there another car out there that I should consider? I love the M3 and the reviews it gets, but I can only afford the cars with the 6 cyclinder (still a great car in every way, but I would really like a V8).

Thanks for your input, GJ members.

I love my 07 Mustang Gt Vert.. You can buy one used in the low twenties. And plenty of parts / and upgrades available. And the insurance is not too bad. Just my 2 cents.

 

[wagonmaster]

I have an aquaintance with the CTSV and it has 145,000+ miles on it and doesn't use oil, smoke or rattle and if you didn't see the odometer, you'd swear it was a 20-30,000 mile car! It is quick, fun to drive , reasonably economical and apparently very durable. The Caddy Northstar is a good engine! I'd try it if I was in your shoes. Much less $$ to buy parts for than a BMW and accessories are available if you are so inclined.
Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[PurdueSD]

We had an 06 mustang GT and were really happy with it. The are a smooth driving pretty quick car. I'm 6'2" and it was a hair tight inside for me....

 

[StumpXJ]

Get a used (newer) Subaru WRX. They are a very fun and well rounded car.

~James

 

[gesoffen]

I love the M5 but they are a maintenance handful, especially the cooling system and clutch (expect about 50k miles out of each before replacement or significant PM).

Before you toss the M3 out the window, try driving one first. They may not be a V8 but that I-6 is one sweet engine. However, you are looking at a 2-door only car which may take it off of your family friendly list.

Consider the Audi S4 - V8, probably available in your price range for MY2006 or 2007, avialable with a 6 speed manual (a must for me), and four doors.

Consider the Pontiac G8 - while a bit on the large side for the fun factor, you get 6.2L V8 power, an available 6 speed manual, and four doors and a new car. However it is around about $5k north of your $30k price ceiling and part of a dying brand.

Also consider the BMW 335i - while not a V8, 300+ ft/lb torques and 300+ HP puts it in V8 territory and that I-6 is pretty sweet as well. The twin-turbo I-6 is chip tunable to near 400 hp, there is a huge aftermarket, factory and fan based following for all things BMW. It is available in 4 doors and with the all important 6 speed manual. For a 2007 or 2008 MY, you'll be looking in the high $20k to low $30k range for a low optioned car. Or you can sign up for the ultimate adventure and pick a new one up in Germany, enjoy it on the autobahns and country roads of Europe for a few weeks and have it shipped back here, all for about the price of what a new one costs on the showroom floor ($41k)

 

[Steevo]

Another vote for the WRX.
It is a sports car when you are alone, and a family car when it has to be.
And all wheel drive is a real plus!

 

[TRC51]

I like the WRX for what it is, but that is not really the kind of car I am looking for. As I mentioned, I would really like a V8... and a bigger car (if you can believe that).

gesoffen: I did some research and it seems you were quite correct about the M5. That suprised me. I would have expected it to be more durable. The cost to repair also scares me a little. Maybe I am not ready to own such a high end car. Which... unfortunately relates to the M3 as well. Although, it seems the M3 is a much more reliable car and designed for what I am looking for. Costs can also be high for repairs, but it is a very cool and capable car. While the Audi S4 is a sweet car (my brother had one), I don't think I am going to put it on the list. My brother and some friends of mine have had serious electrical problems with Audis. While that may be resolved, I'm not sure that car is what I am looking for either. The G8 is a consideration if I can find a stick. Although, dying breed takes me back a little.

Did a little research on the CTSV and it is somewhat similar to the M5. Although the motor seems to be the stong point in the V's. The rest of the car has typical problems. I wonder how bad repair costs are? I would guess pretty high considering it's a Caddy. I am a reasonable DIY'r. I have put in transmissions and lots of standard motor repairs, but these more expensive cars might be tougher to work on?

 

[benjamming]

New Mazda RX-8 maybe?

 

[fotoflojoe]

Here's another vote for an E46 M3. I owned a 2006 M3 convertible for a couple years. Unfortunately, it was T-Boned by an illegal with no driver's license . While I had it, the M3 was the best vehicle I've ever driven. I plan on getting another one as soon as I can afford to.

Things to watch out for:
On 1999 - 2001.5 models, bad crank bearings were used during engine assembly. This caused some motors to grenade themselves. BMW ultimately issued a recall for this that replaces the bearings and extends the warranty on the engine to 100K miles. Again, this was for 1999 - 2001.5 M3s. Either look at 2002+ models, or verify that the recall was performed.

Rear subframe is prone to tearing/separation from the chassis. So far, BMW does not acknowledge that this is a problem, and has not issued a recall.

The S35 engine takes only one brand/type of oil: Castrol TWWS Motorsport. BMW requires this for warranty, and can enforce it since they provide free maintenance for the duration of the warranty.

Michelin Pilot Sports don't last very long, and are expensive to replace.

Be extra careful with any electrical work you do, the M3 LOVES to throw codes for the goofiest stuff.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[TRC51]

New Mazda RX-8 maybe?

Wow... suprisingly that seems to have a lot of room in the back. Not bad looking and quite a car for $32K. I know they handle like nuts too..... but not what I am looking for in a motor.

Good suggestion though! Exactly what I am looking for... options!

 

[TRC51]

Rear subframe is prone to tearing/separation from the chassis. So far, BMW does not acknowledge that this is a problem, and has not issued a recall.

Be extra careful with any electrical work you do, the M3 LOVES to throw codes for the goofiest stuff.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

This scares me a little. I have learned to be honest with myself over the years. Having said that, I will be straight up and tell you whatever I choose is going to catch some abuse. I can be pretty tough on equipment because when I buy it, I usually use it pretty hard. That is one good reason why I no longer buy new, cause it definitely won't stay that way for long. Don't get me wrong, I take care of maintenance and stay on top of repairs, but when I drive the car... I drive it!

That in mind, I am currently ogling a 04 M3 with about 40kmi on it. Let's say I "hypothetically" drive this car in autocross, track days at Lime Rock, and 1/4 mile drags at my local track. Am I going to find myself with a separated subframe?

Electrical gremlins also scare me, but I tend to keep most interior stuff pretty stock. Stereos are not as important to me as they once were (which wasn't much back then either).

Thanks for the good luck. Seems I will be needing it.

 

[A_Pmech]

I am former motorcycle racer looking to get myself a "fun car".

I sense a distubance in the force...

I don't think it's possible to find a car that has any "fun" value after riding a motorcycle on the track. Working at airports I've driven numerous expensive and "fast" cars. They never really excited me in the slightest. However, when I'm having a good day on the bike and everything is falling into place you can't wipe that grin off my face for hours.

If I was committed to finding a car, I'd look for something totally unrefined and raw, but with a great chassis underneath. Something loud enough to wake up the neighbors three blocks away. Probably a custom-built job and a roadster, of course. In a word, definitely not well-rounded.

 

[gesoffen]

I think in this day and age of everything electronic, if you're scared of potential electrical gremlins, you'll be shopping for classic cars vice new cars. I've heard of electrical problems on virtually every make/model new car with some seeming more prevalent than others. The good news, is that any of the late model used cars will be covered by warranty for at least 1 to 2 years, maybe more.

My personal experience with BMWs, primarily on the e46 (1999 through 2006 3 series), is that they are remarkably DIY friendly. Yes, there are a few things that require dealer only service (primarily computer related diagnostics) but all of the Preventive Maintenance is very simple (you can do an entire cooling system PM with water pump, thermostat, hoses, etc in about 2 hours).

The BMW M5 is a special car but the level of PM required and the fact that you are likely to burn through at least 1 clutch, maybe more in a typical ownership make it a relatively impractical car for a daily driver. Granted, you can DIY a clutch on a M5 but it isn't a simple task.

I think the e46 M3 is a bit more daily driver friendly (much to the shagrin of the M fan base). While PM and repair costs may be more than your typical BMW, it isn't on the level of the e39 M5.

It seems the Audi S4 might tick all your boxes save for your second hand experience with the elex. If that is the case, consider one with a good portion of the factory warranty balance still on it (or a certified pre-owned warranty). If the gut feel of the S4 is off base for you, I'm not sure of too many other alternatives but thinking out loud
- Nissan (Infinity G37)?
- Toyota (Lexus IS)?
- Charger/Challenger SRT-8?
- Merc C or E class with AMG?
- Upcoming Ford Taurus SHO?

 

[gesoffen]

Rear subframe is prone to tearing/separation from the chassis. So far, BMW does not acknowledge that this is a problem, and has not issued a recall.

There has been a class action law suit settlement recently. I'm not sure of the exact details but BMW NA is fixing (or reimbursing) affected owners and offering inspections for those that are concerned.

 

[TRC51]

I sense a distubance in the force...

There is definitely a reason:

http://www.classicbikes.com/connor.html

http://www.lrrsracing.com/photo_memories/scott_bosworth.htm


I have two kids now and after losing two good friends out at the track, I decided it was time for me to get out. It wasn't easy, and I miss it very much, but I think it was the right time/decision. I did well enough to satisfy the questions that I had since I was a kid. Now that there is a huge hole in my hobby life, I'm not sure what to do with it. That's why I need a car that can do "everything".... because I am not sure what direction I am going next, so I thought I would sample a little.

 

[benjamming]

Like gesoffen, I would also suggest the Audi S4, really I would prefer the RS4, but that is more than your target price for sure. A 2007MY S4 might satisfy your price.

 

[G-force]

Get a used Audi RS6. I've seen them in the $30k range

WRX and evo's are fun, but generally looked at as a kid's car.

 

[tcianci]

C'mon guys, you know he needs a 64 Impala SS

 

[vette-kid]

I have an aquaintance with the CTSV and it has 145,000+ miles on it and doesn't use oil, smoke or rattle and if you didn't see the odometer, you'd swear it was a 20-30,000 mile car! It is quick, fun to drive , reasonably economical and apparently very durable. The Caddy Northstar is a good engine! I'd try it if I was in your shoes. Much less $$ to buy parts for than a BMW and accessories are available if you are so inclined.
Good luck whatever you decide!

I do not believe the northstar was ever used in a CTS-V. They have the LS (LS6 2004-2005, LS2 2006-2007, and LS9 2009) series engines.

I like the WRX for what it is, but that is not really the kind of car I am looking for. As I mentioned, I would really like a V8... and a bigger car (if you can believe that).

gesoffen: I did some research and it seems you were quite correct about the M5. That suprised me. I would have expected it to be more durable. The cost to repair also scares me a little. Maybe I am not ready to own such a high end car. Which... unfortunately relates to the M3 as well. Although, it seems the M3 is a much more reliable car and designed for what I am looking for. Costs can also be high for repairs, but it is a very cool and capable car. While the Audi S4 is a sweet car (my brother had one), I don't think I am going to put it on the list. My brother and some friends of mine have had serious electrical problems with Audis. While that may be resolved, I'm not sure that car is what I am looking for either. The G8 is a consideration if I can find a stick. Although, dying breed takes me back a little.

Did a little research on the CTSV and it is somewhat similar to the M5. Although the motor seems to be the stong point in the V's. The rest of the car has typical problems. I wonder how bad repair costs are? I would guess pretty high considering it's a Caddy. I am a reasonable DIY'r. I have put in transmissions and lots of standard motor repairs, but these more expensive cars might be tougher to work on?

I see no reason repairs would be much higher than anything else. As I said above, they have the LS engines, which are GREAT engines (I have an LS6 Corvette). That said, they arent too bad to work on, as there is a lot of info available as well as parts if necessary. The only reason i can see it being more expensive is if you have to replace some fancy interior piece or a computer component. I have never driven a CTS-V but I would vote for that route...I always liked those cars.

 

[A_Pmech]

TRC,

Understood. I can respect that. I remember when Connor crashed. I was in upstate NY at the time and I recall it made me sick.

I hope you can find "that car". I understand where you're coming from now, looking to "sample". In that vein, you might have a look at flying lessons to fill the hole. Like motorcycles, airplanes are very addictive.

Just something else you might consider. You could get your Private Pilot license for about the same $$$ as a tricked-out Mustang.

There is definitely a reason:

http://www.classicbikes.com/connor.html

http://www.lrrsracing.com/photo_memories/scott_bosworth.htm


I have two kids now and after losing two good friends out at the track, I decided it was time for me to get out. It wasn't easy, and I miss it very much, but I think it was the right time/decision. I did well enough to satisfy the questions that I had since I was a kid. Now that there is a huge hole in my hobby life, I'm not sure what to do with it. That's why I need a car that can do "everything".... because I am not sure what direction I am going next, so I thought I would sample a little.

 

[GDA]

Based on your criteria, I would suggest you drive all the rest and then drive the BMW E39 M5. You will probably put one in your garage after the drive. A little big for autocrossing but are great fun nonetheless.

Cooling, suspension and other maintenance stuff seems to be a bit overrated in my book. Read up on the M5board and you will see the car has a huge following and there are lots of aftermarket support for it. Not much at all for the others on your list. This can be a big plus when you run into trouble or look for help in doing some DIY on it.

Its a big car and will be a bit harder on tires and suspension compared to a lighter car like the M3. It will surely eat rear Pilots with ease if you enjoy it often in first gear.

I have a imported Euro 3.8 6speed M5 so I am familiar with maintenance of M cars. M cars are quite durable but like all cars do have some weak points.

 

[fotoflojoe]

My personal experience with BMWs, primarily on the e46 (1999 through 2006 3 series), is that they are remarkably DIY friendly. Yes, there are a few things that require dealer only service (primarily computer related diagnostics) but all of the Preventive Maintenance is very simple (you can do an entire cooling system PM with water pump, thermostat, hoses, etc in about 2 hours)...

I think the e46 M3 is a bit more daily driver friendly (much to the shagrin of the M fan base). While PM and repair costs may be more than your typical BMW, it isn't on the level of the e39 M5.

I completely agree with both these points. However, gesoffen reminded me of one other thing: If you live in an area that gets any real snow, prepare to have a winter beater. In my experience, the M3 with stock pilots, doesn't handle snow well at all. I'm in Boston, Ma. My M3 sat in the garage pretty much from January to late March. A few people told me that it does well with snow tires, but personally, I didn't/don't buy it.

That said, I still recommend an E46 M3.

 

[TRC51]

TRC,

Understood. I can respect that. I remember when Connor crashed. I was in upstate NY at the time and I recall it made me sick.

I hope you can find "that car". I understand where you're coming from now, looking to "sample". In that vein, you might have a look at flying lessons to fill the hole. Like motorcycles, airplanes are very addictive.

Just something else you might consider. You could get your Private Pilot license for about the same $$$ as a tricked-out Mustang.

Haven't thought about flying. There's something about shreading pavement that I am hooked to. Thanks though.

 

[flesburg]

I am a German car fan. But, unless you do your own work an Audi or BMW, a new voltage regulator, or alternator, or timing belt repair will cause your eyes to tear.

My neighbor has a new Pontiac G8. I want to agree with someone above. I drove it a couple of weeks ago and it is more fun that you can describe. The big Corvette engine and the 6 speed manual were pure joy. What an engine!!!! You would think it is a 4 cam instead of a push rod engine. And with Pontiac going the way of Oldsmobile you may get a buy on one. I understand they are about $35K, but I have not had more fun in a 4 door family sedan since my drive in a V12 merc on the track at Heartland Park. And the big Merc was a $150K. Besides, the G8 may even appreciate. Certainly worth a look. Of course you will have to take a ribbing for driving a Government Motors vehicle.

 

[TRC51]

More and more I am starting to think that a supercharged Mustang may not be what I need. Tough to pass up though because it is such a good price.... and 493hp. I found a sweet M3 though for the same price with 10x the mileage. Also considering a 2005 CTSV with only 17kmi. All good options. Saw an M3 on the way home today... awesome car... but too small? I don't know.

Maybe I will look for an RS6, but I am pretty sure the car will be RWD. OH... and to clarify, this is a second car. I have an F150 for regular and winter use. So no worries about any recommendations that are poor in the snow.

 

[udscrimif]

Thanks for sharing. It's great

 

[gesoffen]

In my experience, the M3 with stock pilots, doesn't handle snow well at all. I'm in Boston, Ma. My M3 sat in the garage pretty much from January to late March. A few people told me that it does well with snow tires, but personally, I didn't/don't buy it.

That said, I still recommend an E46 M3.

Any car on "summer" only performance rubber is going to handle like a hockey puck on the slick stuff. "All Season" have their place but since they don't do anything well (by design since they have to compromise for every environment), the ONLY way to go is dedicated winter shoes for the car. I've been running a dedicated set of wheels/tires for summer and winter on both my e46 3er and my Mini Cooper S. Where I live in the Washington DC area, I use "performance" winter rubber which doesn't do squat in packed ice but is designed for the slushy, wet snow and general cold temps. You'll find that there are as many types of winter tires as there are tires for the other 3 seasons (i.e. a lot!).

If you have anything resembling a performance car, the winter & summer tire set up is the only way to go. I wouldn't compromise with all-season tires unless it was a mobility appliance, a la a Toyota Camary. All-season = no-season in my book.

 

[gesoffen]

Saw an M3 on the way home today... awesome car... but too small? I don't know.

Maybe I will look for an RS6, but I am pretty sure the car will be RWD. OH... and to clarify, this is a second car. I have an F150 for regular and winter use. So no worries about any recommendations that are poor in the snow.

As mentioned before, I have an e46 (a 325i wagon, not an M3) and have no problems space wise for 4 adults. This is our "family" car(wife+ 2 kids), although I am the primary driver. My wife drives our Mini Cooper S. Granted, the e46 coupes sacrifice a bit of interior room for style but that is only in the headroom of the back seat. So I'd say there is enough room for family daily driver duties but not enough room for a family vacation across America. If you can get over the difficulties with 2 dr ingress/egress, you'll be fine.

Although, there is no reason you can't test drive one with the family...

While an M car is certainly drivable in the snow with the right shoes, it certainly isn't ideal due to its low ground clearance, big tires, and big HP. However, an F150 isn't much better (for different reasons) but at least I'd feel lest guilty pelting a truck with salt/sand than an M3.

 

[hidollartoys]

For the kind of money that you are going to spend you might consider a street rod. It is a car type that has a whole "sport" built around it and a following that travels to events for social interaction. Be careful when/if purchasing because there are badly built cars.

Just a thought.

 

[TRC51]

Thanks for sharing. It's great

Again, sorry this ended up in the wrong section. I was hoping someone could move it. But... since it doesn't look like that is going to happen, here is a pic of the current status of my build.

 

[TRC51]

BTW,

I am glad you guys are willing to talk about this. My wife is worthless when it comes to car talk. I got about 5 minutes of opinion out of her last night before she got pissed and left the conversation. Looks like I am on my own to figure this out. On the positive side, at least I don't have to ask permission.

 

[gesoffen]

Again, sorry this ended up in the wrong section. I was hoping someone could move it. But... since it doesn't look like that is going to happen, here is a pic of the current status of my build.

Pay no attention to that (#27, not yours) post - its a spammer.

 

[kevncar]

I know it's not what your looking for, but my dad recently bought a 2002 Mercedes SLK32 AMG and it's a fun little car. Granted, it's a small 2-door convertible, but I think there are other larger 4 door cars that are still AMG models that will have quite a bit of ***** too. But they might be a little high on the repair cost side, I know he mentioned having to change air filters on the thing and it was what I thought was amazingly high!!!! Ofcourse it's a Mercedes and the repairs were done at a dealership. Anyways, maybe look at some of those used, I know you can get into one like his or a slightly newer SLK55 AMG for the higher end of your price range. I'm with you on the used car thing though...Look at my dads car...I think they were in the 60-80k range (I don't know for sure though) and he picked his up last fall for 25k. You'd better be a millionare to take a financial blow like that over just a few years. Good luck with your decision!

 

[e-tek]

I got 6 words for you: 1967 Ford Galaxie 500 XL (OK, a couple words, a bucnh of letters and some numbers...)

 

[jiggler]

The first ting i thought of when i first read the sentence when you need an overall car for everything the first thing came to mind was a EVO/STi.

The other cars i were thinking of was either the Genesis coupe or sedan (sedan will put you over the 30k range but you never know what king of deal you can get.

 

[c5golfguy]

C5 or C6 Corvette. Before the heads/cam in the car, I would manage 30-33mpg on the highway and go autox, drag, or road tracking any day of the week and drive it home. Easy to work on, insurance is cheap, and just down right fun! I put heads/cam in the car for under 4k and made 441hp/415tq and still get 26mpg on the highway. Can't beat that with a stick.

I would stay away from the EVO and anything Mits. Their build quality isn't what it used to be. Have had many 400hp Talon's/Eclipses. STi is where its at now days.

CTS-V's are fun cars. Would love to pick up an older one with the LS6 in it for a daily driver. Put a maggie supercharger on it and call it day as far as mods go.

 

[hooper62]

This was breifly mentioned. But since you want something to haul a family in and a v8 I would suggest a Dodge Charger (four door).
You can get the 5.7l Hemi (it sounds friggen awesome at WOT)and i beleive the this motor has MDS which makes it run on 4cyl for fuel milage at cruise speed.
Or a used srt8 with 6.1l (sounds even better at WOT) with 425hp for that price range. Plus the srt8 has brembo brakes and really comfy "racing" type seats.

These may also be a little big for autox. I believe the srt's run mid to low 13's in the 1/4 mile stock too.

 

[SnyperBob]

Have you looked into an LS2 GTO? You can get them used for CHEAP. They come witha 6.0L V8, make gobs of power with mods. It's way faster than a mustang for any mods you throw at it.

You can get a used one for cheap as hell ($15k-$20k). 2006's are still going to have low miles. The gas mileage is amazing with those LS engines. You can get in the high 20's mpg. Manual 6 speed trans available. I believe they have independent rear suspension, so they ride very nice.

You could get one for $15k, TWIN TURBO it for like $7k, and still have cash left over for rims/tires, etc... You'll be running 11's for less that $25k and will still have all the modern amenities of a new car.

They are also very stout heavy cars. They will be safe for the family. I've seen many pics of idiots flipping these cars and walking away no problems. These cars will go 160 mph stock I believe, and faster with the governor turned off

 

[TRC51]

Nice car e-tek. Actually, someone mentioned earlier a 64 Impala... I thought that was funny because my favorite uncommon muscle car is the 68 Impala Fastback. Been looking for a good one with a 4spd at a reasonable price for a long time, but have pretty much given up on that. I love that car, but as I mentioned, I have decided to be honest with myself. I am not the collector car, drive it 10 times a year max, kind of guy. When I realized that, that is when I started focusing on the newer cars and performance.

Jiggler, thanks for the suggestions on the EVO and Sti, but those are just not my style. I reeeeeaaalllly want to try and get something with a V8.

Charger is awesome... love it and so does the wife. Looked at the SuperBee for a long time. SRT8 motor, not on every corner, loved driving the rental I had. Awesome car... but also an automatic. I gotta have a stick for the autocross and track day stuff. If that were a stick... no brainer, I would be all over that car. Good suggestion.

The GTO.... hmmmm. The GTO. You are right... it's all there. 400hp in the 05's up, comes in a stick, can haul the family, handles well. The only thing I have never liked is the looks. Always looked like an oversized cavalier. If you're not paying attention and the car doesn't have an exhaust, a new GTO could drive right past you and it may never catch your eye. I suppose that can be a good thing though. Great suggestion! I think I am going to go take a look at some today if I get the chance.

As for the Vette... the only reason I don't own one already is the two seater restriction. I gotta have room for 4.... oh man would it be nice to have a Vette though.