Carrier or Lennox??
- Thread starter DonnyT
- Start date
PWC Repair
Well-known member
Neither, run from both. For the money and reliability, not to mention cost of replacement parts, look at Ruud/Rheem.
hidollartoys
Well-known member
If you plan doing the repairs and maintenance you need to stay away from Lennox. Only "authorized" dealers are able to obtain parts which are all proprietary. Carrier is not as bad but overpriced.
You should consider Goodman. Very simple and parts are readly available to anyone. If you have a Johnstone near you check it out.
You should consider Goodman. Very simple and parts are readly available to anyone. If you have a Johnstone near you check it out.
carhouse
Well-known member
None, get a trane , nothing stops a trane 
rshadd
Well-known member
When I replaced my oil boiler I ask the repair guy what he likes to work on and went with what he liked. Sales guys will tell one thing, but the opinion of the the guy that fixes them mattered most to me.
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Falcon67
Well-known member
X2 - the Goodman here is 11 years old and was not taken care of by previous owners but it's still in good repair. Last house we had a Rheem 10 SEER - 12 years, no issues at all. Haven't heard anyone say good things about Lennox for a while.
PWC Repair
Well-known member
Good idea, ask a repair man. They'll know what's **** and what's not. I happen to work at an HVAC supply house and we deal with all the contractors within a 60 mile radius. I personally order a lot of special order parts. You wouldn't put a Lennox on my house if it was brand new AND FREE! Carrier, Trane, Amana, York, Heil, Frigidaire, and some others have some nice stuff and reliability seems about the same. Some are more overpriced than others but Carrier and Trane have the most expensive replacement parts of those. Sorry, I'm not going to pay $600 for a replacement blower motor when I can get a universal fit one for about $86.
Goodman units have really come up in quality in the last 5-8 years and they've stepped up their warranty to match. I'm biased towards Rheem/Ruud and that's what is in my house. I prefer the more basic designed units that can use universal replacement parts in general. IF something happens to my system, most any contractor can get me fixed up that same day. With that proprietary b.s. you'll have to wait for it to come in because nobody will have it in stock.
Goodman, others already said it most of the parts inside most brands (except carrier and Lennox) are made by Honeywell, white-rogers, a-o smith, and fasco so the thing that is going to make the biggest difference is proper sizing and installation. If your spending the extra to get a modulating furnace get the best air filtration system you can, dirt is the second biggest killer of HVAC equipment right behind improper installation.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
I spent a lot of years Electrical/hvac/plumbing as a contractor .
In my experience for what its worth Carrier/Bryant has always been cheap built equipt with a hell of an ad campaign backing it up.
I worked for a trane/train wreck/American sub-standard dealer in my younger days doing service work.
And Im here to tell you after all the bs I went through with the trane supply house in Omaha ne to get them to back up their warranty on the heat exchangers on those junk 80% furnaces they were selling back in the 80s-early 90s which were notorious for cracking heat exchangers I wouldn't wish them on anybody.
Not to mention their insanely high pricing even to dealers,I don't wish their stuff on anybody.
I also worked for a lennox dealer back in the day,half the shelves in my van were filled with different furnace boards for all the different G series furnaces I lost track after like g-20!
Not to mention all the major parts we needed came out of marshal town iowa,which people always wanted to here on sat night!
Go Goodman!
In my experience for what its worth Carrier/Bryant has always been cheap built equipt with a hell of an ad campaign backing it up.
I worked for a trane/train wreck/American sub-standard dealer in my younger days doing service work.
And Im here to tell you after all the bs I went through with the trane supply house in Omaha ne to get them to back up their warranty on the heat exchangers on those junk 80% furnaces they were selling back in the 80s-early 90s which were notorious for cracking heat exchangers I wouldn't wish them on anybody.
Not to mention their insanely high pricing even to dealers,I don't wish their stuff on anybody.
I also worked for a lennox dealer back in the day,half the shelves in my van were filled with different furnace boards for all the different G series furnaces I lost track after like g-20!
Not to mention all the major parts we needed came out of marshal town iowa,which people always wanted to here on sat night!
Go Goodman!
Thanks everyone for the replies. Opinions seem to be all over the place. LOL I have heard nothing but horror stories with Goodman and will absolutely not even consider it. I actually asked an HVAC tech several months ago and he just laughed and said "Stay Away". The 3 big boys appear to be Trane, Carrier and Lennox, no particular order. The warrant for parts is 10 years. That seems pretty good to me. So... my options right now are Carrier or Lennox based on the estimates I have received.
My Lennox dual fuel system is 7 years old and the only problem I've had was the check valves in the a/c which effected every brand that used them. Been very happy with it so far but be sure to find a reputable dealer as that's more important than the brand IMO. If it's not sized properly or installed correctly, any brand won't work properly causing you a lot of headaches and money.
clark_nicholas
Well-known member
Problem with Lennox or Carrier you have a HVAC lic to get parts Rheem/Ruud any one can get parts with cash
hidollartoys
Well-known member
The tech is/was an idiot. If you had the answer why did you even ask.
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All the major players make good products -- the problem is over the years they have all had one model or another that had problems and the whole line gets whacked. They all make builder models as well as top of the line with more controls and higher efficiencies.
The last two systems I have installed were Carrier infinity models -- I did this because I needed zoning and the Carrier controls are first rate. The variable control furnaces are unbelievably quiet and comfortable heat.
The last two systems I have installed were Carrier infinity models -- I did this because I needed zoning and the Carrier controls are first rate. The variable control furnaces are unbelievably quiet and comfortable heat.
Ohmthis
Well-known member
Not always at least not here. Every supplier is requiring a liscense to get parts(at least refrigerant). Most won't even sell furnace parts. I install trane with the co. That I work for and for the money I vote goodman too. I just used their stuff in my new house. Best bang for the buck to me.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
I was curious if the opinons have changed from actual HVAC guys.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
Well I still am licensed as an electrical contractor in 3 different states,am registered as master plumber in several cities in Nebraska and done hvac work including steam fitting and boiler installs since the early 90s.
And had my own shop since 1996,does that qualify me as an actual hvac guy in your book?
And had my own shop since 1996,does that qualify me as an actual hvac guy in your book?
Well I still am licensed as an electrical contractor in 3 different states,am registered as master plumber in several cities in Nebraska and done hvac work including steam fitting and boiler installs since the early 90s.
And had my own shop since 1996,does that qualify me as an actual hvac guy in your book?
I see we have something in common. I happen to be an "A" book Union Steamfitter myself. "B" guys work on the HVAC stuff. Being a master plumber as you say does NOT qualify you as an HVAC guy. I can make up pipe as well as anyone. Thanks for the input though.
danielzig
Well-known member
Goodman receives the rap it does because they will sell to any ***** who walks through the door. Because of this fact, a lot of them get installed improperly. Since a lot of them are installed improperly, they get a bad rap as being "junk". I will be replacing my furnace and a/c later this year, and it will be with Goodman equipment.
danielzig
Well-known member
Oh, and in answer to your question...I would go Lennox. I find Carrier equipment to be inferior. I am basing my recommendation on both residential and commercial experience on both units. Lennox equipment seems better overall engineered, at least with the service tech in mind. Only problem being that proprietary part ****.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
No being a master plumber does not make you an hvac guy ,but around these parts plumbers have been doing heating and boilers since the early 1900s.
And it does make me better than most at sweating/silver soldering refrigeration lines,and I can also do the med gas brazing on medical jobs where most fitters cannot touch .
Another thing about hvac work is the majority of the service calls are either going to be either electrical or plumbing related,so yeah the plumbing side does come in handy .
And it does make me better than most at sweating/silver soldering refrigeration lines,and I can also do the med gas brazing on medical jobs where most fitters cannot touch .
Another thing about hvac work is the majority of the service calls are either going to be either electrical or plumbing related,so yeah the plumbing side does come in handy .
I wasn't knocking you. I was asked why I bothered to ask about Goodman. I just asked an HVAC tech if things have changed with thier rep thats all. I'm not familiar with furnaces so much as I am with boilers. I appreciate your input though.
In the past few years we have replaced a ton of carrier/bryant/payne heat exchangers, there is/was a class action type suit going on last I knew.
I installed a Lennox SLP98 in my house earlier this year, I have to look at the thermostat to see if it is running it is so quiet. The Icomfort wifi stat is as nice as I've seen, it's nice checking or changing the temp from my phone.
You will run into some high priced parts from all the companys, some of the carrier inducer motors are over 500$ my cost for a single speed motor.
As said above proper install is key along with a good media filter that is changed regularly.
I work for a Lennox dealer and we will match the ten year parts warranty with ten years labor if the customer does yearly maintenance.
Goodman has gotton better since they bought Amanna, the "dealer network" around here is mostly guys with old rusty phone company vans working out of their house so you run into some interesting installs. In my opinion goodman builds to a low price point, they sell a lot of equipment since it's cheap and builders like cheap, if installed properly it's decent equipment, just don't expect it to be the quietest or last the longest.
I installed a Lennox SLP98 in my house earlier this year, I have to look at the thermostat to see if it is running it is so quiet. The Icomfort wifi stat is as nice as I've seen, it's nice checking or changing the temp from my phone.
You will run into some high priced parts from all the companys, some of the carrier inducer motors are over 500$ my cost for a single speed motor.
As said above proper install is key along with a good media filter that is changed regularly.
I work for a Lennox dealer and we will match the ten year parts warranty with ten years labor if the customer does yearly maintenance.
Goodman has gotton better since they bought Amanna, the "dealer network" around here is mostly guys with old rusty phone company vans working out of their house so you run into some interesting installs. In my opinion goodman builds to a low price point, they sell a lot of equipment since it's cheap and builders like cheap, if installed properly it's decent equipment, just don't expect it to be the quietest or last the longest.
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Lennox parts are expensive.
cowboyjosh
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2010
- Messages
- 1,066
RHEEM/RUUD gets my vote as the best. i'm a builder and i had a Rheem RGFG modulating units installed on my house an i could have installed anything. Thru the years i've installed everything from Lennox to Goodman to Nordyne to Bryant/Carrier and we keep going back to Rheem.
James Garner
New member
Trane and American Standard are the same unit. My first AC was Trane and now I have an American Standard. Both have given very giood, relaible service in this hot and humid Houston, TX climate.
Rockford . . . congrats on your first post!! A TV station has started showing reruns of your great series Rockford Files.
How has the Firebird done over the years?? You still driving it?? Any pics??
Have you had any Wi-Fi connection issues??? I have read many reviews which claimed to be a problem with the IComfort stat.
jonesmechanical
Well-known member
I am partial to Lennox. We primarily do work on very high end homes, and commercial new construction. For us, we have to be associated with the very best that is available.
I would agree to this statement though, I would much rather have the cheapest furnace on the market that is installed 100% correctly than the best furnace out there installed incorrectly. Installation has more to do with how noisy, efficient and reliable a piece of equipment is.
Ruum/Rheem, IMO looks like it was designed by the Feds 50 years ago, its not aesthetically pleasing at all, and, on paper, they don't compete with the Big three (Carrier/Bryant, Lennox, and Trane). If you want the best of the best, it doesn't take more than 5 minutes visiting the equipment websites who has the quietest, more efficient equipment available. To boot the representation of Rudd/Rheem isn't the greatest, and they don't care who they sell to, which has really degraded their perceived quality (bad installations rub off on them).
For 12 years, I was a Trane dealer, and held on through some very bad local drama/politics. I still believe that the best A/C units out there (fit and finish, internal quality) is the Trane unit, even though I don't sell them anymore, it wasn't worth dealing with supply chain issues, warranty follow through, and most importantly, local technical support. I know now that Ingersol Rand now owns them, and they have had some quality issues since then, but cant comment on it because its nothing I have had personal experience with.
The local Trane branch (Trane owned/operated) had some major issues taking care of us, and Trane National was horrible in both response time, and technician competence.
I deal with those exact same issues with local distributors that are 3rd party to their equipment brands. Here locally, there is a Goodman owned branch, and the Rest of the brands are locally represented by a 3rd party. 3rd party representation for the most part, from my experience is a complete joke.
Lennox is the ONLY company who decided that they would only have one client: The heating contractor. No 3rd party vendors. Their support is flawless. You dial 18004Lennox, and you have access to the Best Minds in the HVAC industry, from applications, to tech support. That is huge for us with our business focusing mostly on cutting edge system designs and equipment.
Lennox has the most comprehensive product line that I have seen, featuring Integrated Variable Air Flow Zoning, Several options for Air filtration, HRV's, Residential Economizers, humidification, hot water furnaces, heat pumps, dual fuel setups and on and on.
If I wasn't a Lennox dealer, I would definately be with Carrier. The main reason is for their Infinity zoning system. Its something that works very well, and IMO, is the only other one to consider out there other than the Lennox Harmony III system.
ANY HVAC contractor can get parts from Lennox, and have an account with them. They may not have access to the full equipment line, but they can get parts. As far as home owners not being able to get parts, I believe in that systems. For the DIY's out there, you need to get a good relationship with a local HVAC contractor.
For the true DIY'er that wants to completely save money, and do everything himself, Goodman is a great option, because you can get it all over the place, and people aren't ashamed to sell it to anyone. You get exactly what you deserve. If you do a 90% plus furnace, you will be screaming and yelling wondering how any heating contractor deals with the condensate trap installation. My main Beef with their product line now, is that their furnaces are still 40" tall (Trane also, they are behind the 8 ball). With the taller high efficiency coils, it makes proper installations difficult, especially with air flows over 1500 cfm that require dual intakes.
Now that Daikin owns goodman, it will be interesting how things change.
If anyone needs help getting their hands on anything, let me know, I can help. I am licensed in most every state here in the West, and also have family with their own businesses out in Hawaii and other states.
This is a great forum, it has helped me a lot with my projects, and would love to contribute anything I can on this topic.
I would agree to this statement though, I would much rather have the cheapest furnace on the market that is installed 100% correctly than the best furnace out there installed incorrectly. Installation has more to do with how noisy, efficient and reliable a piece of equipment is.
Ruum/Rheem, IMO looks like it was designed by the Feds 50 years ago, its not aesthetically pleasing at all, and, on paper, they don't compete with the Big three (Carrier/Bryant, Lennox, and Trane). If you want the best of the best, it doesn't take more than 5 minutes visiting the equipment websites who has the quietest, more efficient equipment available. To boot the representation of Rudd/Rheem isn't the greatest, and they don't care who they sell to, which has really degraded their perceived quality (bad installations rub off on them).
For 12 years, I was a Trane dealer, and held on through some very bad local drama/politics. I still believe that the best A/C units out there (fit and finish, internal quality) is the Trane unit, even though I don't sell them anymore, it wasn't worth dealing with supply chain issues, warranty follow through, and most importantly, local technical support. I know now that Ingersol Rand now owns them, and they have had some quality issues since then, but cant comment on it because its nothing I have had personal experience with.
The local Trane branch (Trane owned/operated) had some major issues taking care of us, and Trane National was horrible in both response time, and technician competence.
I deal with those exact same issues with local distributors that are 3rd party to their equipment brands. Here locally, there is a Goodman owned branch, and the Rest of the brands are locally represented by a 3rd party. 3rd party representation for the most part, from my experience is a complete joke.
Lennox is the ONLY company who decided that they would only have one client: The heating contractor. No 3rd party vendors. Their support is flawless. You dial 18004Lennox, and you have access to the Best Minds in the HVAC industry, from applications, to tech support. That is huge for us with our business focusing mostly on cutting edge system designs and equipment.
Lennox has the most comprehensive product line that I have seen, featuring Integrated Variable Air Flow Zoning, Several options for Air filtration, HRV's, Residential Economizers, humidification, hot water furnaces, heat pumps, dual fuel setups and on and on.
If I wasn't a Lennox dealer, I would definately be with Carrier. The main reason is for their Infinity zoning system. Its something that works very well, and IMO, is the only other one to consider out there other than the Lennox Harmony III system.
ANY HVAC contractor can get parts from Lennox, and have an account with them. They may not have access to the full equipment line, but they can get parts. As far as home owners not being able to get parts, I believe in that systems. For the DIY's out there, you need to get a good relationship with a local HVAC contractor.
For the true DIY'er that wants to completely save money, and do everything himself, Goodman is a great option, because you can get it all over the place, and people aren't ashamed to sell it to anyone. You get exactly what you deserve. If you do a 90% plus furnace, you will be screaming and yelling wondering how any heating contractor deals with the condensate trap installation. My main Beef with their product line now, is that their furnaces are still 40" tall (Trane also, they are behind the 8 ball). With the taller high efficiency coils, it makes proper installations difficult, especially with air flows over 1500 cfm that require dual intakes.
Now that Daikin owns goodman, it will be interesting how things change.
If anyone needs help getting their hands on anything, let me know, I can help. I am licensed in most every state here in the West, and also have family with their own businesses out in Hawaii and other states.
This is a great forum, it has helped me a lot with my projects, and would love to contribute anything I can on this topic.
The biggest problem with the WiFi icomfort stats has been either people not knowing their password or the router settings themselves.
Mine seems to drop out once in a while but it comes back online a few min later, couple of recent customer stats were doing the same but it doesn't seem to affect operation at all except that the weather icon disappears.