Casted Veneer Stone & Dirt Overlap Question

[tommyboy1211]

Hello Everyone,

Does anyone have any recommendations / suggestions on what the dimension for overlap of black dirt when using casted stone veneer? I live in Minnesota where there can be extreme temperature swings and it gets extremely cold at times. Is there a certain dimension of black dirt that should cover the veneer stone at the ground condition? I am trying to avoid an expansion issue where the heaving of black dirt would cause the stone to break or come off. However, at the same time the concrete block underneath needs to be covered to a certain degree so it is not exposed to the elements. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

 

[yeldogt]

I don'r really understand?

The block could be exposed ? The veneer stone is just decorative to hide the block .... the exposure is based on what is needed for splash protection against the siding ..looks

 

[kj_mustang]

You should read the install instructions from the stone veneer manufacturer. The veneer I used they state to end the stone a couple inches or so above ground to allow moisture weep.

 

[ssdave]

2 inches minimum from bottom of the stone to the top of the earth, to prevent water from seeping in and breaking it off. Preferably 4 to 6 inches. It should not be below the dirt surface, in any circumstance.

 

[jkeyser14]

Around here nonody hols the stone above grade. I have never seen damage as a result.

 

[ssdave]

Around here nonody hols the stone above grade. I have never seen damage as a result.

Any idea of what mortar they are using? Usually the mortar delaminates.

 

[yeldogt]

Around here nonody hols the stone above grade. I have never seen damage as a result.

Same here ... what's the point of the product if it does not hide the foundation.


I'm a stone or stone dust stucco guy myself

 

[jkeyser14]

Any idea of what mortar they are using? Usually the mortar delaminates.

No clue, but block foundations with mortar joint live below grade year round here too. My last house was 70 years old and the mortar was still perfect below grade. We have a ton of freeze thaw cycles since we are a transition zone climate.

 

[scottydosnntkno]

Same here ... what's the point of the product if it does not hide the foundation.


I'm a stone or stone dust stucco guy myself

No veneer company I have ever seen will recommend installation at or below grade.

99% of veneer companies recommend the stone stop 2-6” above grade. Typically, You would fill this space with mulch, rocks, plants or just leave the foundation exposed. The foundation should be waterproofed to 2”+ above finished grade, or it’s not doing anything. Here in michigan every house has the poured or block wall exposed up to a couple feet depending on the final grade with no issues.

Having the veneer at or below grade, is prone to sucking moisture up, freezing and popping off the veneer

 

[yeldogt]

No veneer company I have ever seen will recommend installation at or below grade.

99% of veneer companies recommend the stone stop 2-6” above grade. Typically, You would fill this space with mulch, rocks, plants or just leave the foundation exposed. The foundation should be waterproofed to 2”+ above finished grade, or it’s not doing anything. Here in michigan every house has the poured or block wall exposed up to a couple feet depending on the final grade with no issues.

Having the veneer at or below grade, is prone to sucking moisture up, freezing and popping off the veneer

I'm not a huge fan of fake stone ... but it gets used around me in PA as stone foundations are big. I have never seen it the way you describe -- but, I'm in no way saying you are not correct.

I had to do a tiny match 5' on my current project and used real stone -- that's why I use dusted stucco when I do an outbuilding or addition --- I match the tone of the stone building

 

[kj_mustang]

No clue, but block foundations with mortar joint live below grade year round here too. My last house was 70 years old and the mortar was still perfect below grade. We have a ton of freeze thaw cycles since we are a transition zone climate.

Those block foundations should have waterproofing over the mortar joints and blocks that are under ground. Stone veneer will not have any waterproofing so the mortar adhering the stones and the mortar grout will be porous and can absorb water.

 

[joes169]

As mentioned, every cultured stone manufacturer highly recommends termnatiing their material at least 2" above grade. Culutured stone is far from other typical masonry materials when it comes to water resistance. Quite the opposite, actually, as it acts more like a sponge. When set below grade, it will eventually wick moiture up the wall, several inches, if not more. If you don't belive me, weigh a chunk of cultured stone, and then soak it in a bucket of water for 30 minutes, and re-weigh it.............

 

[joes169]

Around here nonody hols the stone above grade. I have never seen damage as a result.

Perhaps that's because you don't get called out to look at it after it fails below grade? I do get called, and subsequntly see it quite often. Unfortunately, it rarely ONLY damges the stoen assembly itself. Usually, it's well infested into the sheating, sill plate, and rim joist by the time I see it..........