I am running internet to my shop it’s 230 from the house. Wireless isn’t an option I live in the woods. I have dsl for internet, century link just finally 2 years ago upgrade for dsl. Is it worth using anything better than the copper direct burial phone line I already own? My download speed is about 6 mbps and century link has made it quite clear it will never be faster since there are not enough customers to justify the roi to upgrade everything.
Cat 5 cat 6 or copper phone wire for barn internet
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lonestardiver
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Run cat5 or cat6 from your router/switch to your shop. You can put a wireless switch there in the shop.
TuxThePenguin
Well-known member
Wouldn't you want to keep the DSL modem in your house, and just extend your LAN out to the garage with an ethernet cable - or, preferably, fiberoptic? There should be no need to run a phone line unless you want a phone out there.
I would pull at least one network cable from the house... if you want to also run phone, you can run 2 network cables (and just use 1 for network and 1 for phone, giving you the option later to switch to 2 networks, or to have a backup network cable)
As far as DSL modems go, you want them as close to your service entrance as possible, and you want to trim any excess cable away. DSL and phone lines are really pushing a lot of data through a very, very low quality link. Typical phone cable is extremely lossy and DSL modems are extremely sensitive. Even using good cable like CAT5e or CAT6, DSL is still very very sensitive.
I would pull at least one network cable from the house... if you want to also run phone, you can run 2 network cables (and just use 1 for network and 1 for phone, giving you the option later to switch to 2 networks, or to have a backup network cable)
As far as DSL modems go, you want them as close to your service entrance as possible, and you want to trim any excess cable away. DSL and phone lines are really pushing a lot of data through a very, very low quality link. Typical phone cable is extremely lossy and DSL modems are extremely sensitive. Even using good cable like CAT5e or CAT6, DSL is still very very sensitive.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Concur !
The biggest difference between Cat5 and Cat6 is that Cat6 uses heavier wire. Less likelihood of it breaking.
The key is to run multiple conduits - when you change your mind or upgrade, its easy to run a new cable.
As others recommended, I ran an Ethernet from my house to my garage. The fiddly part is putting the ends on the 8 tiny strand cable. There are tools to help with that and worth the investment.
As others recommended, I ran an Ethernet from my house to my garage. The fiddly part is putting the ends on the 8 tiny strand cable. There are tools to help with that and worth the investment.
TuxThePenguin
Well-known member
CAT5e is often 24AWG and CAT6 is often 23AWG (both are available in other gauges as well) so yeah there is a slight difference there. Smaller wire holds up to being repeatedly flexed, though you shouldn't be flexing it too significantly either way once it is installed. The larger wire will have more tensile strength, obviously.
The big difference is that CAT6 is rated for 550MHz vs 350MHz of CAT5e. Both fine for gigabit as long as you aren't talking a half-mile-long cable here.
As for physical difference, CAT6 includes a plastic divider (shaped like a +) that keeps the 4 pairs separated. I suppose that would make it a little less likely to break though. It also makes it a little bit stiffer and more annoying to work with (but it's still much easier than working with mains power wire).
The big difference is that CAT6 is rated for 550MHz vs 350MHz of CAT5e. Both fine for gigabit as long as you aren't talking a half-mile-long cable here.
As for physical difference, CAT6 includes a plastic divider (shaped like a +) that keeps the 4 pairs separated. I suppose that would make it a little less likely to break though. It also makes it a little bit stiffer and more annoying to work with (but it's still much easier than working with mains power wire).
TuxThePenguin
Well-known member
Run them to a keystone jack or a patch panel (which may use a keystone jack in itself). No need to crimp an end anywhere. Punch down tools are cheaper than crimpers, but even better is that punchdown tools are completely optional. You can do it with just your hands (even if you did NOT buy the "toolless" keystones - but the toolless ones are easier to do by hand than the non-toolless ones, of course), or even with a butter knife.
It's also better that way because if you ever need to move the ends around (say you have to mess around with your router or switch), you aren't constantly flexing your structured cable (which eventually will lead to metal fatigue in the conductors). You just move your short patch cable. If that ever metal fatigues then you just replace the patch cable.
Most people should never need to crimp an ethernet cable. Literally ever. I mean, you can if you want. But you shouldn't need to.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Havent read most replies. Put in CAT6 with surge arrestors or use fiber. Other option is to use a pair of ubiquiti radios and do a point to point wireless link IF you have line of site between buildings, eg no trees in the way.
Also, have you looked to see if there is a WISP service in your area? WISP stands for wireless internet service provider. They put a radio on your roof and aim it towards a tower a few miles away. the speed can be way faster than 6Mbps....
Also, have you looked to see if there is a WISP service in your area? WISP stands for wireless internet service provider. They put a radio on your roof and aim it towards a tower a few miles away. the speed can be way faster than 6Mbps....
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Dont think he was planning on moving the modem. He was asking if phone wire would work for extending ethernet signal as opposed to using CAT5 or CAT6. of course it would not and CAT6 is not expensive so why bother with phone wire...
Innovate1
Well-known member
If the "phone wire" you have is the twisted pair type the phone company runs to your house these days it might work for network. If it is the older non-twisted stuff forget it. Best is to use Cat5 or 6 cable. And make sure you put surge protectors on the ends. I got bit by that one.
This is what I am planning to do not sure where my brain was when I asked about using phone cable, anyhow when you use cat 5 or cat 6 I am guessing it requires a specialized crimper for the terminals? My knowledge of LAN and internet wiring etc is very limited.
Innovate1
Well-known member
Putting male ends on requires a crimper. But most use a female socket that is "punched down". The individual wires are put into a small slot in the terminal and pushed down with a simple tool that is usually provided with the connector. Then snapped into a cover plate with a matching square hole and can be put on a standard outlet box. Simpler than the male ends. There have been other posts on this board where people recommend just doing the female sockets. If you have multiple wires to other places in the building you can get a patch panel with multiple sockets in the same assembly and just tie them to your router/switch/etc with short patch cords.
Use cable rated for outdoor use, even if in conduit. Some just has an extra layer but I went with gel filled for more assurance it was truly water tight.
When you wire the jacks/sockets there are two options on the wire order, A or B. Doesn't really matter which you use but you need to stick with one or the other. Here's an example of the jack. You can see the A and B wire locations marked on the side.
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Cat6-Punch-Keystone-105384/dp/B003L11H48
Use cable rated for outdoor use, even if in conduit. Some just has an extra layer but I went with gel filled for more assurance it was truly water tight.
When you wire the jacks/sockets there are two options on the wire order, A or B. Doesn't really matter which you use but you need to stick with one or the other. Here's an example of the jack. You can see the A and B wire locations marked on the side.
https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Cat6-Punch-Keystone-105384/dp/B003L11H48
lonestardiver
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Determine the distance and you might be able to buy a built or even have a built to order cable made. I ran mine from my house to the shop in buried 3/4” pvc conduit. Connected to my switch here in the house I have a second wireless switch (and network) in the shop.
TuxThePenguin
Well-known member
Some correct responses about this in here already, but if it helps, here is a link to the specific product you should use (you can get these at stores like Home Depot if you prefer, but they might cost a little more)
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=1044
Buy the CAT6 jacks if you buy CAT6 cable, or buy CAT5e jacks if you buy CAT5e cable. The fitment is slightly different, though generally either type of jack will work with either type of cable. But it is best to stick with the correct jack if possible.
Each of the 8 wires inside the wire will go into those receptacles, the U shaped things, that kind of work like Scotch Loks (except they actually work well here!)
The toolless kind (which I linked) is easier to do without a punchdown tool, but the non-toolless / standard kind can also be done without the proper tool.
That said, the proper tool is like this: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=7041 - I linked Monoprice because you can order any cable, any jacks, and this tool all in one shot. However you can find these under $10 on Amazon, or if you want to wait several weeks for China to ship it, here's a simple-but-good-enough one for a buck shipped https://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-RJ45-Ca...623730&hash=item2aeeee5f70:g:tHEAAOSwE-tfMj1s.
The tool is optional so personally I wouldn't order it at all for just a couple of jacks, just linking it so you can see it. I have a couple of those cheapies (the $1 one I linked, though I did not buy mine from that seller) and I don't know where either of them are and I'm not too upset about it. If I wanted to punch dozens of those things, I'd probably get one of the nicer versions of the tool (and actually use it) to save time though.
For starters, there are wireless antennas that are unaffected by trees but cable is easier if you already have a trench planned. You should surge protect copper or use a fiber cable which are not THAT expensive. Use CAT6 and it should be rated for underground but not a deal breaker if you don't mind maybe having to replace it.
I'm fortunate enough to get CAT6 for free through subcontractors. I've maybe punched down 50 jacks with that Monoprice tool and I use their keystone jacks as well; no failures so far. I don't have the capability to test them, but it has yet to not work to the well enough that I have noticed something.
I use keystones and then plug in short patch cables so I never make a male end. I also have a RG6/Cat6 stripper which is nice, but not totally necessary for data cable, great for coax though.
I'm fortunate enough to get CAT6 for free through subcontractors. I've maybe punched down 50 jacks with that Monoprice tool and I use their keystone jacks as well; no failures so far. I don't have the capability to test them, but it has yet to not work to the well enough that I have noticed something.
I use keystones and then plug in short patch cables so I never make a male end. I also have a RG6/Cat6 stripper which is nice, but not totally necessary for data cable, great for coax though.
for just 1 cable i'd do these on either end.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H926M2Y/?tag=atomicindus08-20
it shows you the wiring color coding. I assure you, if you can use velcro shoes you can do these ends.
aggie113
Well-known member
I'm always for hardwiring if you can. But you shouldn't discount wireless if running wired is too much for you. Several companies have very cheap 60Ghz wireless systems that are meant for building to building setups. It's not your typical wireless you'd use in the house, but could be just what you need for to get internet out to the garage.
60ghz ***** thru trees if you can get it at all.
for basic streaming in a barn needs 2.4/5 is the way to go IMO.
this particular case only have 6mb internet to begin with so even 5ghz is gona outperform uplink capacity.
ltusler
Well-known member
IF the shop power comes from the house, you could use powerline ethernet. Cheap and plug and play, just need to be on the same leg of the feed at each end.
Do not run CAT underground without surge protection it is prone to lighting strikes. Even then, with the cost of fiber way down these days it's not worth the few dollars saved to worry about it.
You can order direct burial pre-terminated fiber in the exact length and number of terminations you need. Order a couple extra terminated pairs for future proofing.
https://www.fs.com/products/70220.html
They sell it pre-made with a pulling eye attached.. really make it easy and price is good.
You can order direct burial pre-terminated fiber in the exact length and number of terminations you need. Order a couple extra terminated pairs for future proofing.
https://www.fs.com/products/70220.html
They sell it pre-made with a pulling eye attached.. really make it easy and price is good.
NockOn
Well-known member
Going fiber he will need a couple of transceivers at each end to convert back to copper
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NockOn
Well-known member
Max distance for Cat5 is 300 Feet. However make sure when you terminate, you follow proper color code or at that distance you could have crosstalk and will limit your speed.
http://discountlowvoltage.blogspot.com/2009/10/standard-568b-wiring-diagram.html?m=1
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http://discountlowvoltage.blogspot.com/2009/10/standard-568b-wiring-diagram.html?m=1
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
True .. $26/ea at fs.com for 1G or since he will need a switch anyway there are 4port switches now with fiber for $50-75.
cat6 with surge protection is still FAR cheaper than fiber. FAR FAR FAR cheaper. and simpler if you're under 300' overall run length.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00R20OIAY/?tag=atomicindus08-20
So for the application of 250ft.
CAT6 Direct Burial 250ft. $89.99 (cheap generic brand off of Amazon, you'd probably want to get a partial spool of Leviton or other quality brand to avoid re-work)
2 surge protectors - 17.50/ea = $35.00
total $124.99
Direct Burial Rated OS2 Fiber, Pre-Terminated. $154.02
2 1Gb transceivers - 26.00/ea = $52.00
total $206.02
Fiber has really come down in price in recent years.
I guess it's up to your own situation if $206 vs $124 is worth the extra $80 but for me since I am going to only do this once, fiber is effectively 'future proof', and it removes all risk of lightning surges, the one time charge seems worth it.
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Are the bottom dollar media convertors better in reliability now a days?
something like:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003CFATL0/?tag=atomicindus08-20
with:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B47SSHH/?tag=atomicindus08-20
64$ for conversation is about as cheap as I can find.
putting in 3/4 or 1" conduit with a few runs of cat6 future proofs just fine for shop use. one gets zapped by lightning you just swap over to another run.
Granted $80 isn’t a lot the only reason I would consider fiber is the lighting issue. There will never be fiber to my house, my current speed is 5-6 mbps and that only happened two years ago. Century link has said the next upgrade will be wireless service from them in about 6-8 years
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
It needs to be rated for underground/wet location because conduits fill upnwith water
varies. these guys wanna act like if there is lightning in your state its gona fry both shop and house.
I think of it this way: you got power going from the house to the shop in many setups. more likely to travel over that than ethernet. the cost of pulling an extra run or 3 in the conduit is minimal. the chances of burning them all up in a lifetime are essentially 0 unless you live on the tallest hill in florida with a 50' tall metal building.
cat6 500' outdoor rated solid copper. $70 good for 2 runs in conduit.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GH7JHG9/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GH7JHG9/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Metal-Marc
Well-known member
It does not take much variation to fry electronics. You take your chances. I'm about to bring ethernet from the house to the garage and I'll be pulling fiber.
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ishiboo
Well-known member
I think Cat6 direct burial/outdoor in conduit is going to be the way to go. Ubiquiti surge protectors on each end.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...YSmHChtHIK4AktW8HhA21ZpEfoIpYIJoaAuYfEALw_wcB
Good time to sign up for the Starlink beta, it should be coming out soon and I believe Ohio will be one of the states.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...YSmHChtHIK4AktW8HhA21ZpEfoIpYIJoaAuYfEALw_wcB
Good time to sign up for the Starlink beta, it should be coming out soon and I believe Ohio will be one of the states.
yatg
Well-known member
Uh ... no.
Its solid wire, but not copper.
"23AWG High Copper Content CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)"
That's why its so cheap.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
Until youve seen the damage lightning does...
I have.
if they share an electrical meter, aka the shop is a subpanel off the house or other way, the risk is the same if you use ethernet or fiber.
and insurance covers the damage either way. the generic shop need for internet doesn't justify the extra expense/ complexity in most cases.
generic shop use cases being: stream music, video, look up parts manual, post on GJ/FB.
Amazon is a cesspool of these off-brand counterfeit products.
Several of the reviews for the VIVO product are negative saying it came with a splice mid-length, is not UV resistant (so probably not properly rated), does not transfer at the rated speed, etc.
Direct burial gel-filled CAT6 made in the USA is approx. ~$150 for 500 ft.
I would order from a reputable source for something like this - you don't want to have to do this twice, or lose days trying to troubleshoot a network that ends up being due to a faulty cable.
Several of the reviews for the VIVO product are negative saying it came with a splice mid-length, is not UV resistant (so probably not properly rated), does not transfer at the rated speed, etc.
Direct burial gel-filled CAT6 made in the USA is approx. ~$150 for 500 ft.
I would order from a reputable source for something like this - you don't want to have to do this twice, or lose days trying to troubleshoot a network that ends up being due to a faulty cable.