School me on CAT6 cameras and security systems. I am in the process of building a pole barn. I have dedicated half of the building to living space. I have heard from the electrician that CAT6 is the only way to go for rough in of security camera system. Is this true? Do any of you use this for your setup?
CAT6 Security system
- Thread starter Trihle98
- Start date
Not a security system guy but I'd have to agree for the simple fact it's shielded and designed to not be affected by electrical noise. It's network cable and in some cases good for up to 10Gb network speeds which requires a very clean signal. Plus for every line run, you have 5 pairs of twisted line.
I'm sure there are other reasons to use it but probably less to not use it.
bazzateer
Well-known member
Only -ve I can think of is it's slightly less flexible due to the screening etc.
Trey T
Well-known member
If you step back a bit, there are two types of data transmission, analog and digital. The digital uses the CAT5e or CAT6 cable and the analog more than likely uses dinosaur-age cabling called BNC or RCA.
CAT5e and CAT6 are labeled differently due to their transmittance capacity at max length (~300ft). In short, you ABSOLUTELY do not need CAT6 because the data rate you're likely to send through the main trunk line will be much less than 500mbps.
Each camera (1080p @ 15-30fps) will push about 5-10mbps for adequate surveillance quality/clarity. Even if you plan to use 4K in 10yrs, the data rate pushing through each line will only be <40mbps.
CAT5e and CAT6 are labeled differently due to their transmittance capacity at max length (~300ft). In short, you ABSOLUTELY do not need CAT6 because the data rate you're likely to send through the main trunk line will be much less than 500mbps.
Each camera (1080p @ 15-30fps) will push about 5-10mbps for adequate surveillance quality/clarity. Even if you plan to use 4K in 10yrs, the data rate pushing through each line will only be <40mbps.
klassenl
Well-known member
I recently did a 16 camera system (full HD not 4k) entirely on cat5e. No problems with quality or speed. Probably cheaper as well.
Ultimately you will need to know the requirements of your system. If the manufacturer requires cat6 then you need to do that.
Ultimately you will need to know the requirements of your system. If the manufacturer requires cat6 then you need to do that.
Agreed, but you may also find the price point difference between cat5 & cat6 is so little that it won't make much of a dent on your budget.
My last trip to Home Depot they were out of cat5 and it is about 30 miles to next place selling wire. It was not worth my time and gas to save 10 bucks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My last trip to Home Depot they were out of cat5 and it is about 30 miles to next place selling wire. It was not worth my time and gas to save 10 bucks.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am not well versed in Security systems. I have looked at several big box kits but none of them supplied the features I wanted nor supplied cable lengths long enough.
The goal I am trying to reach is having a total of 9 cameras both interior and exterior with the ability to monitor them from my living room, office and Master bedroom TV.
I have already ran CAT6 to all of the camera locations. The main concern is what wiring is required to get to this point before spray foam is installed next week. I am not looking to view the cameras through my cell phone due to no access to high speed internet.
Thank you all for your help, are there any experts or hobbyist here on GJ?
The goal I am trying to reach is having a total of 9 cameras both interior and exterior with the ability to monitor them from my living room, office and Master bedroom TV.
I have already ran CAT6 to all of the camera locations. The main concern is what wiring is required to get to this point before spray foam is installed next week. I am not looking to view the cameras through my cell phone due to no access to high speed internet.
Thank you all for your help, are there any experts or hobbyist here on GJ?
I'm pretty sure your electrician is recommending CAT6 because of 2 things:
1. wire gauge. CAT6 is commonly made with thicker conductors (23ga). This can be important when the camera is also being powered by the CAT6 cable (IP/POE applications). The lower gauge can support higher current draw.
2. Ability to support multiple transmission methods. Some cameras may use IP. Some may use a digital video signal. Often In a digital video signal application (think HDMI over UTP), the system requires CAT6 to minimize loss, especially in runs over 100ft. Some cameras use analog signal that can also be transmitted over UTP cable. Either way, CAT6 guarantees compatibility with what ever camera you choose.
I think your electrician is giving you good advice.
BTW, CAT6 is not necessarily shielded. Shielding is an option to use in High EMI environments or where maximum data transfer speed is the goal.
1. wire gauge. CAT6 is commonly made with thicker conductors (23ga). This can be important when the camera is also being powered by the CAT6 cable (IP/POE applications). The lower gauge can support higher current draw.
2. Ability to support multiple transmission methods. Some cameras may use IP. Some may use a digital video signal. Often In a digital video signal application (think HDMI over UTP), the system requires CAT6 to minimize loss, especially in runs over 100ft. Some cameras use analog signal that can also be transmitted over UTP cable. Either way, CAT6 guarantees compatibility with what ever camera you choose.
I think your electrician is giving you good advice.
BTW, CAT6 is not necessarily shielded. Shielding is an option to use in High EMI environments or where maximum data transfer speed is the goal.
there are balums that connect old analog signal and power cameras to cat 6 inbetween endpoints.
That is what I used now to connect my cameras in lieu of being wireless.
Works fine.
Of course new cameras have higher definition values and make night time monitoring look as if it were shot in sun light.
That is what I used now to connect my cameras in lieu of being wireless.
Works fine.
Of course new cameras have higher definition values and make night time monitoring look as if it were shot in sun light.
Kaizen
Well-known member
i'm running cat6 for poe cameras. i'm making up the connections myself so it takes some work. cat5 will work but i'd rather have the best for a little more to give me 20 years of expansion. not exactly something that you can pull out and redo easy so might as well. Also run for any data lines like to the tv and computer. I bought a big box of direct bury for external runs. waaaaay cheaper then the premade cords or bare wire on the shelf
I wired my house with 5e about 2 years ago and pulled 2 cables from the switch to each room to allow for growth. Each camera location had its own line pulled as well. For my workshop, I dropped a separate 1 1/2" conduit in the ground while I had a trench open to run 100 amp service and pulled 4 lines to it with an additional drag line in case I need to add or upgrade. Cat 6 is great, however, I believe it will be some time before 5e is obsolete in the home and by that point, fiber is likely what will be the new standard. JMO
Keep in mind, just because you don't have internet doesn't mean you can't have a wireless network at your location. I think your bigger question is what you plan to run for cameras and their requirements, then you can determine the backbone required to support them with room to grow.
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Keep in mind, just because you don't have internet doesn't mean you can't have a wireless network at your location. I think your bigger question is what you plan to run for cameras and their requirements, then you can determine the backbone required to support them with room to grow.
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Joe0121
Active member
Look into POE camera. Than you can use a POE switch and have only 1 cable to run to each camera.
avoid running data line parallel to power lines within 1 meter or within 3 meters of florescent light ballast.
Though with Cat6 you could likely get away with it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LW9A328/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N2R5THA/?tag=atomicindus08-20
avoid running data line parallel to power lines within 1 meter or within 3 meters of florescent light ballast.
Though with Cat6 you could likely get away with it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LW9A328/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N2R5THA/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Do you have any kind of network connectivity between your house and barn?
Security Camera NVRs (network video recorders) usually provide the connection & power to ** amount of cameras. They can be monitored from computers using a web browser to connect right to the IP Address of the NVR, an most manufacturers usually have apps for smartphones and tablets for monitoring.
Example of an NVR with 16 camera ports.
http://www.hikvision.com/us/Products_1_10649_i8726.html
You would then connect the NVR to your home network to be able to monitor it.
Without a link between the house and barn, you will not be able to view/monitor it in the house. CAT5e/6 are good for connections up to 100 meters. As mentioned earlier, there are direct burial versions of each. If the house is further, then you'd have to look into linking them with point to point wireless.
Something like this on each side https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeamm/
Security Camera NVRs (network video recorders) usually provide the connection & power to ** amount of cameras. They can be monitored from computers using a web browser to connect right to the IP Address of the NVR, an most manufacturers usually have apps for smartphones and tablets for monitoring.
Example of an NVR with 16 camera ports.
http://www.hikvision.com/us/Products_1_10649_i8726.html
You would then connect the NVR to your home network to be able to monitor it.
Without a link between the house and barn, you will not be able to view/monitor it in the house. CAT5e/6 are good for connections up to 100 meters. As mentioned earlier, there are direct burial versions of each. If the house is further, then you'd have to look into linking them with point to point wireless.
Something like this on each side https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanobeamm/
Lelandwelds
Well-known member
Cat 6 (and Cat 5) gets its "shielding" from the twisted pair. Twisted pair adds and subtracts so interference is mostly self cancelling. If you untwist too much when terminating a new end, it may fail the specs for Cat 6.
AFAIK.
AFAIK.
23ford
Well-known member
Lets set some things straight
1.Cat5E will run GIG
2.Cat5Eand Cat6 does not come normally shielded. You have to spec it and buy it as shielded cable.....in which shielded cable has a foil wrap over the pairs and it needs to be grounded on both ends with the proper shielded jacks.
3.Cat6 has2 options Cat6 and Cat6A
4.Termination is critical on Cat6 it must be done within specs and the center pair separator needs to be trimmer correctly.
AND AFTER TERMINATION CERTIFICATION TESTING NEEDS TO OCCUR!!!!!
This testing is not done with a $35 to 50 walmart or home depot wiring tester.
The tester we use cost $15,000.00.
5. The twists in each pair are to lower attenutation and other things that happen in the digital world. THEY ARE NOT FOR SHIELDING!!!!
6. The cost of a 1,000 ft of Cat5E should be 65 to 85 a box Cat6 135 to 150.
Just because it says Cat6 or the homie at the store says it is does not mean it is.
Make sure your Cat6 has a center separator and is has the UL approval on the box.
1.Cat5E will run GIG
2.Cat5Eand Cat6 does not come normally shielded. You have to spec it and buy it as shielded cable.....in which shielded cable has a foil wrap over the pairs and it needs to be grounded on both ends with the proper shielded jacks.
3.Cat6 has2 options Cat6 and Cat6A
4.Termination is critical on Cat6 it must be done within specs and the center pair separator needs to be trimmer correctly.
AND AFTER TERMINATION CERTIFICATION TESTING NEEDS TO OCCUR!!!!!
This testing is not done with a $35 to 50 walmart or home depot wiring tester.
The tester we use cost $15,000.00.
5. The twists in each pair are to lower attenutation and other things that happen in the digital world. THEY ARE NOT FOR SHIELDING!!!!
6. The cost of a 1,000 ft of Cat5E should be 65 to 85 a box Cat6 135 to 150.
Just because it says Cat6 or the homie at the store says it is does not mean it is.
Make sure your Cat6 has a center separator and is has the UL approval on the box.
I would just add that I would go with CAT6 - the price isn't that much different. BUT, make sure that it is pure copper and not Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA) like the local box stores like to sell.
When it comes to terminating the cables, Platinum tools has RJ-45 jacks that are basically foolproof. There are actually holes in the end of the jack so you can stick the wires through and visually check to see if they are in proper order before you crimp them.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FI9VU2/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Run all the cables back to one location (home run style) and you can later decide to use a Network Video Recorder or another option is a dedicated computer running software like Blue Iris
Go over to https://ipcamtalk.com and do some reading. If you're looking to save a buck you could probably order the cameras directly from China through one of AliExpress Vendors. ('Andy' hangs out on that forum and people seem very pleased with him)
Aliexpress webshop Empire Technology Co., Ltd
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032
https://ipcamtalk.com/members/empiretecandy.26381/
When it comes to terminating the cables, Platinum tools has RJ-45 jacks that are basically foolproof. There are actually holes in the end of the jack so you can stick the wires through and visually check to see if they are in proper order before you crimp them.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FI9VU2/?tag=atomicindus08-20
Run all the cables back to one location (home run style) and you can later decide to use a Network Video Recorder or another option is a dedicated computer running software like Blue Iris
Go over to https://ipcamtalk.com and do some reading. If you're looking to save a buck you could probably order the cameras directly from China through one of AliExpress Vendors. ('Andy' hangs out on that forum and people seem very pleased with him)
Aliexpress webshop Empire Technology Co., Ltd
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1200032
https://ipcamtalk.com/members/empiretecandy.26381/
Attachments
23ford
Well-known member
The jacks where you push the wires thru short after time (Like seen above)
It looks like, over the last couple of years, I have purchased 150 of these EZ RJ45 connectors. I have never had any problems with them and a quick google search of them shorting out - revealed nothing.
Not sure how they would be shorting if you're using the proper tool to cut the wires off?
Of course your never going to make everyone happy, but looking at the 534 reviews on Amazon - 69% rated these at 5 stars and 11% at 4 stars.... It does look like some vendors were selling 'knockoffs' that may have affected the quality/
What were the circumstances where you experienced this shorting problem?
23ford
Well-known member
Thoser ends do short out due to where you cut them off. Over 40 years in the communications industry and over 35 Certifications is what I use to base this information on.
As far as reviews real professionals did not leave them on amazon, people that do not know how to do it properly did the reviews........If a guy can wire up an outlet in his garage that does not make him a journeyman electrican......If I needed help with an electrical problem and ajourneyman electrican with 40 plus years experience was willing to share his knowledge I WOULD LISTEN.
Just because you can wire up a jack does not make you a communications tech. We do not buy the cheapest thing out there, we buy and install the quality products that last as we have to stand behind our product.
I have been trying to help GJ'ers over the help with the experience that I have that has cost me Thousands of dollars to get.
As far as reviews real professionals did not leave them on amazon, people that do not know how to do it properly did the reviews........If a guy can wire up an outlet in his garage that does not make him a journeyman electrican......If I needed help with an electrical problem and ajourneyman electrican with 40 plus years experience was willing to share his knowledge I WOULD LISTEN.
Just because you can wire up a jack does not make you a communications tech. We do not buy the cheapest thing out there, we buy and install the quality products that last as we have to stand behind our product.
I have been trying to help GJ'ers over the help with the experience that I have that has cost me Thousands of dollars to get.
vwtom
Member
GIT is 100% correct - I have made hundreds of cables with the other/old style. I have never heard of these...but they look fantastic.
Honestly - the old kind I use would be more problematic.
The place where you may get a short is if you were using the cable in a wet environment. You would have more exposure, having the end you clip off exposed. Low risk.
23ford
Well-known member
Git it appears to me you do not really want an answer, When someone that has over 40 years experience and is called on to fix million dollar networks offers advise you go to the homies that buy cveap from amazon and think its great because they can be cheap.
A real communications tech would never use these and would test with a network tester because we have to stand behind our work.
A guy that wires an outlet in his garage is not a journeyman electrician.
A real communications tech would never use these and would test with a network tester because we have to stand behind our work.
A guy that wires an outlet in his garage is not a journeyman electrician.
ishiboo
Well-known member
Thank God this is a security camera in someones pole barn, and not a 10gig backbone thousands of people are relying on for service.
People DIY networks all the time with a ton of success, and the failure for a miscrimp is simply crimping a new end on when it doesn't work.
A "real communications tech" isn't needed.
The EZ RJ45 connectors are not cheap... they are some of the higher quality connectors you can buy. And having wired professionally before (something I will never do again), I always choose the EZ RJ45 as it saves a ton of time and futzing.
If you want to get technical, a "real communications tech" would certainly use a punch-down jack at the camera, a patch panel punched down at the origin, and pre-made and pre-certified patch cables for an entire job like this.
It's completely silly and absurd to think every cable in a home network should require certification with a $15,000 tool, or a professional. If you have issues successfully crimping an RJ45, then use a $40 tester to make sure the pairs are in the correct order, not shorted, and have continuity. No, it won't measure the advanced parameters that go into testing a cable... much of which only matters when you're nearing the bandwidth and length limits of the cable anyway.
This is an easy thing to DIY and save money with bare bones tools. Watch a video and crimp away. If it doesn't work simply redo the crimp again.
ishiboo
Well-known member
I have a couple Nanobeams in use now (AC), and I would have to say if I was connecting any buildings I would choose them over a direct copper connection any day. I do have 2" conduit out to my barn with Cat6 direct burial. Saves a lot of money (wire, conduit, actual burying, and more importantly the surge suppression required on each end!), complexity, digging up the yard, etc.
I take everything I read on the internet with a grain of salt....
With that being said, I try to usually only speak of my own experiences and what has worked for me and what has not. In this case, these jacks have exceeded my expectations and I have tried the other jacks which was pretty frustrating
When I see someone who has to qualify their position with something along the line of "I have over 40 years of experience" you can look at it that more than one way. Is it really 40 years - with you actually crimping connectors on cables for all 40 years or is it 1 year of experience that you repeated 40 times....
Do YOU actually have any experience with the EZ RJ45 jacks because according to your post, it would be beneath you to have used them - or is something that you just 'heard about'?
Well said. I wrote a similar response and then gave up and deleted it. Unfortunately, I don't think any of these words will resonate when someone has such a black and white perspective.
23ford
Well-known member
git.... 40 years millions of connections and jacks and patch panels not just C5, C5E, C6, C6A, C7, C8......no more of this **** I am out of here.
driverinmyhead
Well-known member
I am a little late to the game here... but just installed Cat5 on the recommendation of BIL who is licensed commercial electrician.
Had the same conversation Cat5 vs Cat6. Bought 1,000 feet of Cat5 for $58 bucks. Came in a big cardboard box with a hole in the side to feed the wire out.
Bought 6 outlets (to plug all kinds of fun stuff into), and a basic "Smart" panel. I think I paid around $150 for everything. He pulled the Cat5, wired the connectors for the outlets, then wired the junction inside the smart panel. We also ran coaxial for cable TV and such.
BTW, this is all going in my shop (cat5 plug ins above several workbenches for laptop/tablet/etc).
Maybe this has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR QUESTION? I am running a POE security system with 2tb hard drive DVR that will obviously feed into the smart panel through one of the outlets. It is NOT up and running yet, but I am following in the footsteps of others who have similar set ups with no problems...
Here is the smart panel at the electrical supply store:
Had the same conversation Cat5 vs Cat6. Bought 1,000 feet of Cat5 for $58 bucks. Came in a big cardboard box with a hole in the side to feed the wire out.
Bought 6 outlets (to plug all kinds of fun stuff into), and a basic "Smart" panel. I think I paid around $150 for everything. He pulled the Cat5, wired the connectors for the outlets, then wired the junction inside the smart panel. We also ran coaxial for cable TV and such.
BTW, this is all going in my shop (cat5 plug ins above several workbenches for laptop/tablet/etc).
Maybe this has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR QUESTION? I am running a POE security system with 2tb hard drive DVR that will obviously feed into the smart panel through one of the outlets. It is NOT up and running yet, but I am following in the footsteps of others who have similar set ups with no problems...
Here is the smart panel at the electrical supply store:
