Ceiling drywall tape cracking and falling down

[FleaDog]

Hi guys the drywall tape on my ceiling is cracking and falling off. There is attic space above and I have drop down steps to get up there for storage of seasonal stuff. I am going to repair it but any suggestions on how to go about so it won’t happen again? The ceiling was not taped/painted she. I bought the house. The ceiling Sheetrock was only screwed so I added screws throughout to reinforce. I used paper tape and drywall mud. I imagine there is a little ‘flex’ in the joists and some micro motion in the tape when walking up in the attic causing it to crack/fail.









Thx for any tips


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[66Caprice]

It almost looks like there was no mud underneath the tape for it to stick to the sheet. The seam between the two sheets of drywall would have drywall mud in it if it did. Post a picture of the back of a chunk of the tape.

 

[dfiler2]

I agree, it looks to me like whoever did the taping had no idea what they were doing. If it was all done that way it will eventually all fail.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

It almost looks like there was no mud underneath the tape for it to stick to the sheet. The seam between the two sheets of drywall would have drywall mud in it if it did. Post a picture of the back of a chunk of the tape.

Exactly what I was going to say.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

My garage ceiling ***** too.
It is on a long list of $h!t to fix.

 

[rlwhitetr3b]

I get along better using the mesh tape. YMMV

 

[SGKent]

Or use fiberglass tape next time. It allows mud to pass thru and has sticky on it. You can hire a pro to do it too for a couple hundred dollars, or maybe even trade hours with someone.

 

[pmiranda]

Try again with the fiberglass "tape".. the mud will push through it into the gap and the glass will flex a little instead of cracking.

 

[FleaDog]

I did the work guys, did mud the back of the tape plenty

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Buddy-Tools-TB-ROM828-01-Drywall-Taping-Tool/30866917




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[manwithtools]

I did the work guys, did mud the back of the tape plenty

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Buddy-Tools-TB-ROM828-01-Drywall-Taping-Tool/30866917




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You don't mud the back of the tape, you embed the tape in a layer of mud that is applied to the sheetrock first. Then another layer of mud on top of that. There is not any mud on the drywall where that is failing. Hate to break it to you, ****'s a bad tape job, not drywall moving.

I see you bought a tool to help with the tape, actually it's far easier to do correctly with a 6" knife.

Hire a pro to repair it and watch their every move, ask lot's of questions and you'll be more successful on the next go round.

I've had to cut out and redo some tape, that was when I first started. I don't have to do that anymore.

 

[dfiler2]

You don't mud the back of the tape, you put a layer of mud on the seam, press the tape into it, scrape the excess off then put a layer on top. That is your first coat.

This guy would probably take five years to do a house but he is showing the proper steps.

 

[The Cobbler]

...
If you use mesh tape, use the same technique, premud the seam, then press the mesh into it, and then put mud over the mesh. If you stick the mesh onto the wallboard, then mud over it, you can have exactly the same problem you have with the paper tape now, it can peel off because of insufficient adhesion of the mud under the mesh tape. The fact that most amateurs stick the mesh on and then mud over it without pre-mudding the joint is the reason mesh tape has such a bad rep.

Huh? why then does it have adhesive on the back side, and I see no difference in the mud pressing thru the fiber as opposed you your suggested technique.... and mesh tape primarily is for amateurs, you wont see many pros using it. your technique, IMO, would be more apt to get tape showing thru the compound.

That was painful to watch. In addition to fooling around with the mud 20 to 50 times too much, wetting the tape with water is another recipe to have tape separation. Wet it with mud, not water.

did I watch a different video?

 

[FleaDog]

Thx for tips. Any mud better than another? I did sheet rock all the rest of walls myself and it’s doing fine. As far as the rest of the ceiling tape, will cut it all out and redo with the ways u guys mention and the fiber mesh stuff (which I have used before).


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[Lynden]

The seams in my garage ceiling did the same thing. I covered each seam with a 2x4 attached to the bottom of the trusses with screws, then painted the 2x4s to match the ceiling. Looks nice.

 

[FleaDog]

The seams in my garage ceiling did the same thing. I covered each seam with a 2x4 attached to the bottom of the trusses with screws, then painted the 2x4s to match the ceiling. Looks nice.

I did have this idea as well. Considered using strips of 1/4 cellular pvc or strips of white FRP. Would drill holes through material (on either side of seam) and use white pan head screw to fasten. The drill hole in material would be bigger than screw shaft to allow for movement and pan head would be a tad bigger to hide hole under.


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[yatg]

1) I had a similar problem in a room attached to my shop, about 9x20. The idiots that installed the drywall and had 9' long seams with no support. Toe-screwed some 2x4's between the joists in the attic, used 1x4 rough sawn over the seams screwed up into the 2x4s. That was a miserable project. Painted the trim color, a semi gloss dark brown.

2) I've been using this FibaFuse tape for the past few years. Its a closed mesh fiberglass. Lots of nooks and crannys for the mud to stick to.

https://us.adfors.com/brands/fibafuse

 

[jvitez]

Fibreglass mesh tape manufacturer's recommend using setting type compound ("hot mud") for the first coat, then you can do drying type standard mud for the other 2 coats.

 

[FleaDog]

Thank you for your tips. I am going to rough up the seams with 80 grit, load with durabond 90 and use fibafuse max


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[csp]

You have virgin drywall behind that tape that failed. No need to rough it up.

The fibafuse is great stuff, fiberglass mesh not so much. The latter is meant to be used with hot mud only on the first coat as well.

 

[johnnyradiant]

The fact that the drywall had been up for sometime untaped likely had a fine layer of dust on it too. Perhaps a damp rag/sponge wipe of the areas to be filled would have helped with adhesion. It doesn't look like it is solely an incorrect tape job. Here code requires that the board in mech rooms and garage be at least taped with 1 coat of mud as part of the final inspection. Meaning here that would be sure sign of a reno without permits or failed inspections and/or never completed - but those ones normally get flagged on the title and show up during the sale.

 

[grounded-b]

Use a "setting" type mud. It is sold as a powder. It contains more adhesive. But, only use it to embed your tape. It is a Bi^*ch to sand.

Sometimes called "hot" mud, because it comes in 5, 20, 45, 90 and 210 minutes setup times. I would use the 90 or 210 minute stuff.

Steve

 

[strutaeng]

Use a "setting" type mud. It is sold as a powder. It contains more adhesive. But, only use it to embed your tape. It is a Bi^*ch to sand.

Sometimes called "hot" mud, because it comes in 5, 20, 45, 90 and 210 minutes setup times. I would use the 90 or 210 minute stuff.

Steve

Sorry, this is not good practice. The "hot mud" should only be used for deep "repairs," not bedding tape. A buddy of mine that has been doing this with his Dad since he was a kid has told me the same thing when I asked him as I was learning. I **** at it, and will only do things like closets.

For big jobs I hire a guy. Now, he uses the medium weight for setting the tape, not the lightweight stuff. Lightweight joint filler is reserved for the subsequent coats.

He uses the Murco brand. He's hesitant to use the USG brand, except for the last coats. He's a professional taper and I trust in him, so I buy whatever he needs.

 

[i4ni]

Just curious. Is it insulated?

 

[tonyciambrone]

Sorry, this is not good practice. The "hot mud" should only be used for deep "repairs," not bedding tape. A buddy of mine that has been doing this with his Dad since he was a kid has told me the same thing when I asked him as I was learning. I **** at it, and will only do things like closets.

For big jobs I hire a guy. Now, he uses the medium weight for setting the tape, not the lightweight stuff. Lightweight joint filler is reserved for the subsequent coats.

He uses the Murco brand. He's hesitant to use the USG brand, except for the last coats. He's a professional taper and I trust in him, so I buy whatever he needs.

Plenty of people use setting compound for taping. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Read the data sheets on easysand and durabond.

I personally trust Durabond and FibaFuse over paper tape and plus 3. Technically you can tape with it, and its premixed, but it is not nearly as strong or sticky as durabond.

 

[FleaDog]

OK checking in way late on this but I have no cracking at all a few years later

 

[nadogail]

I have had good results with 10 minute mud and self adhesive mesh tape. It has been several years since I last repaired a ceiling.

 

[Zeke]

I know this is an old thread dealing with lack of adhesion. For taping I always used premix taping compound. If using all purpose I add some liquid adhesive. Taping compound is normally dry enough for a 2nd coat the same day. I have many times used hot mud on corner bead.

There is no substitute for being completely dry for sanding (if needed) and the finish coat after all has shrunk. Hot mud takes minutes to get hard and sometimes 2wice or 3X as long to dry affecting the top coat. It doesn't shrink much, but it has never bought me that much time.

 

[mrbill55]

Besides no mud under the tape, there is a shot where I do not see any tape either.

My advice, rip it all out, start with mud, then mesh tape, then additional mud, not in one heaping thick amount, but in smaller layers, built up slowly until it can be sanded smooth without uncovering the mesh joint tape.

Bill S.

 

[gizardlizard]

Just curious. Is it insulated?

Waiting for his response too. I live in Wisconsin and went thru this. Taped and mud the garage. Ran out of time to insulate the ceiling but did insulate the walls. The first major cold snap happened. Frost hanging onto drywall ceiling on almost half the garage and lots of the seams literally burst overnight. Some were 6 foot plus long. Not a doubt in my mind it’s from lack of insulation. At least in my case. The frost thawed the next afternoon and I had water streaking down the walls and had to repaint in spring. Insulated the ceiling, fixed the seams and haven’t had it happen since.

 

[FleaDog]

HI guys - i ripped out all the tape/mud and re-did everything with the fiber mesh tape (fibafuse max) and durabond 90. I sanded everything down with 80 grit and used the durabond under/over the tape. was a pain to sand when dry but has held up well.

 

[Norcal]

With the old part of this thread I wonder if the OP used topping mud, instead of all purpose mud?? The lack of adhesion makes me think that.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Very timely thread, I have a very similar job waiting for me.

 

[thammel]

Way to go! Fibafuse and durabond 90 is the way to go for setting the tape. Then regular drywall mud on top of that if needed. All my repairs done this way have been long lasting.