Ceiling Fan: Fan works, Lights do not

[PelicanPines]

Forgive me if this has been previously posted but... In my searching... didn't see it.

I have a Hunter ceiling fan where the lights stopped working. Bulbs were confirmed blown... new bulbs didn't work.

Troubleshooting began.

No electricity in sockets.

Yes to electricity at the top of the fan in the electrical box.

Yes to electricity at the internal connection of the fan to the lighting "kit".

No electricity at lighting switch pull chain on the unit.

Checked all internal wires within the lighting "kit". NOTHING looked wrong. Checked continuity between the top connector and the sockets... nothing. Checked the function of the pull chain switch... worked as expected.

When tracing the internal wires... there is a blue wire at that top connector that is spliced into a much smaller gauge wire that in turn is spliced into the black wire that feeds the pull chain switch.

Disconnected that smaller gauge wire and found a part number Y59 B 120C ... it is a wattage limiter. Put in place as part of a 2005 energy compliance effort to limit the wattage in ceiling fans to no more than 40 watts per bulb.

I had 40 watt bulbs if you were wondering.

Checked the continuity of this wattage limiter and it failed. It has no reset... it is a failed component. At most this thing is about $1... if it could be found, I figure.

Contacted fan manufacturer who didn't want to hear it... they pointed me to the fan capacitor and it's failure requires a complete ceiling fan replacement.

So... I come to understand... this Y59 B 120C component is not a safety feature but a resistor to prevent you putting bulbs that are too high wattage in the sockets.

It fails and renders the lights not working if you try a higher wattage bulb.

I also come to understand you can remove said "Wattage Limiter" and the light will work fine. There is some responsibility on you to use the correct wattage bulbs however.

In the end... I fixed it... I have light... I have a project ticked off my to do list.

 

[ddurrett896]

Just replaced a fan and the fan worked perfect, but when I turned on the light the fan turned slow!

Ended up being one of the metal pins bent back in the plug that connects the fan to the light kit. Straightened it and problem solved.

I've have also seen the same plug wires not match up and had to delete the plug and hard wire the wires to get it to work right.

 

[PelicanPines]

Just replaced a fan and the fan worked perfect, but when I turned on the light the fan turned slow!

Ended up being one of the metal pins bent back in the plug that connects the fan to the light kit. Straightened it and problem solved.

I've have also seen the same plug wires not match up and had to delete the plug and hard wire the wires to get it to work right.

Wires that don't match up... that's what freaked me out with the smaller gauge splice between the incoming blue and the black for the pull chain switch... I literally said WTF (all spelled out)…. ask my wife... she heard me.

They buried the wattage limiter connection within a bundle of wires that were zip tied. Without breaking the zip tie... you would 1. never see the part number Y59 B 120C... and would never even see it was something more than a thin wire splice.

What irked me... was the customer support trying to misdirect me away from what I found. I got kinda pissed and hung up on him...

 

[American Locomotive]

It's not a wattage limiter or a resistor.

It's a 120 degree Celsius thermal fuse. If the wiring, or compartment it's located in hits 120 degrees, it blows. It blowing indicates something got too hot on your fan.

 

[PelicanPines]

It's not a wattage limiter or a resistor.

It's a 120 degree Celsius thermal fuse. If the wiring, or compartment it's located in hits 120 degrees, it blows. It blowing indicates something got too hot on your fan.

Can I get a new one?...

If it is a safety device... why does it only knock off the lights. It is in the same compartment as the fan capacitor... yet there is nothing that stops the fan.

I doubt it was 120 degrees at the moment it blew... it popped a few moments/seconds after turning the lights on. The room is temp controlled to 75 degrees and there was ZERO scorching anywhere.

The thermal portion of the thing was meshed inside the switch that reverses direction of the fan. A switch that shouldn't pose any temperature issue.

The smaller gauge wires leading to it however make what you say very valid... it is a designed weak point. But why is there nothing documented about this... instead there seems to be an effort to misdirect you away from knowing about it.

By designing it the way they did... it does appear to be a wattage limiter tho. In what is a thermal fuse. It fails if the line draws too much wattage. soooo... it's a thermal fuse used to limit the wattage?

 

[American Locomotive]

You can buy thermal fuses from almost any electronics supplier like Digikey or Mouser. It limits wattage in the sense that if you put too powerful of a light bulb in the fan, the fan's housing will get hot and blow the fuse. It's also possible they put resistance wire inline with the fuse to increase the heat build up.

 

[PelicanPines]

You can buy thermal fuses from almost any electronics supplier like Digikey or Mouser. It limits wattage in the sense that if you put too powerful of a light bulb in the fan, the fan's housing will get hot and blow the fuse. It's also possible they put resistance wire inline with the fuse to increase the heat build up.

Lack of electrical knowledge here... resistance wire... can that be simply "small gauge wire"... I'm talking like 24gauge... pulling 120v... for 2 x 40watt bulbs. Don't yell... it might be 22... I have not measured it yet. Doubt it's 20gauge.

So... let me understand. The thermal fuse blows because the small wires carrying the load get too hot.

What I'm truly trying to confirm here is... is this thing literally just there to prevent me putting over 80 watts total... or does it have another function.

It's safety feature is totally limited to the lights...

 

[American Locomotive]

Without having the fan in front of me, I don't know the specifics. What I can tell you, is that it's a thermal fuse set to pop at 120 degrees Celsius, and I would recommend putting another one back in to prevent a possible fire.

 

[PelicanPines]

Thanks for the info American Locomotive.... it's helping me find a replacement.

I'm also reviewing the 2005 energy conservation law that required this fuse to be installed.

You would think... Hunter would have a replacement part... hell, you can't even buy just the light kit that is on this fan.

It blows a tiny fuse and their solution is buy a whole new fan.

 

[tapered-pin]

something seems amiss if you're blowing a thermal fuse with 2 - 40W bulbs. hell, if anything, the fan "should have cooled it down"...

 

[PelicanPines]

What I have discovered. A percentage of thermal fuses blow when a bulb fails... so Hunter designed their lighting kit to fail when a light bulb blows out.

Not only did I only have 2 forty watts in there at the time of this issue... I'm pretty sure one of the 2 was already blown... I say this because both bulbs were blown when my troubleshooting started. The last one blew with me looking at it.

 

[cheddarhed]

I found this forum by putting in a search for the resistor label and after reading Pelican Pines post, removed the resistor and reconnected the lead to the black (in my case) lead the resistor had been wire nutted to. Restored the Switch housing assembly and plugged the assembly back into the fan fixture. As with Pelican Pines post, the light worked fine (I did a continuity check on the switch first which checked out good). Thanks Pelican for the hint. By the way, the light sockets were rated at 60w each and were the candelabra size. I plan on replacing my 60w bulbs with long lasting LEDs which have a lower wattage rating and are cooler to keep the heat from building up as much as the 60w bulbs. I spent about 2 hours trying to find a replacement Switch housing assembly, but also found out that they are not available anymore. Also, nothing in any of my Hunter Waldon fan paperwork said anything about this. Makes me wonder about the name brand. This light was installed new in 2013.

 

[PelicanPines]

Glad this thread helped Cheddar. It was an educational experience troubleshooting the problem. My fans and lights are still 100%... all is great. I stopped looking for the wattage limiter fuse... as it is redundant in my view. I'm not going to install over wattage bulbs.

 

[CJ7VFR]

...It was an educational experience troubleshooting the problem. My fans and lights are still 100%... all is great. I stopped looking for the wattage limiter fuse... as it is redundant in my view. I'm not going to install over wattage bulbs.

This has happened to me a few times now over the years, and every time it was the wattage limiting/resistance thing. As you found out, to try to get one of those things is next to impossible, and if you can find one the cost, plus the shipping for it, makes that one little part cost almost as much as a new fan.

I just cut them out and reconnect the wires to the light circuit. In some instances replacement fans of the same style and color are no longer available, and some people don't want a new fan that does not match their room.

I also always replace the bulbs with LED bulbs. This way, you can put in brighter bulbs, or bulbs equivalent in brightness to what you had before, but use 75 percent less electricity as compared to regular incandescent bulbs.

That, and the LED bulbs don't get anywhere near as hot as the incandescent bulbs.

Jim

 

[MerlinsBeard]

I found this forum by putting in a search for the resistor label and after reading Pelican Pines post, removed the resistor and reconnected the lead to the black (in my case) lead the resistor had been wire nutted to. Restored the Switch housing assembly and plugged the assembly back into the fan fixture. As with Pelican Pines post, the light worked fine (I did a continuity check on the switch first which checked out good). Thanks Pelican for the hint. By the way, the light sockets were rated at 60w each and were the candelabra size. I plan on replacing my 60w bulbs with long lasting LEDs which have a lower wattage rating and are cooler to keep the heat from building up as much as the 60w bulbs. I spent about 2 hours trying to find a replacement Switch housing assembly, but also found out that they are not available anymore. Also, nothing in any of my Hunter Waldon fan paperwork said anything about this. Makes me wonder about the name brand. This light was installed new in 2013.

I had a Emerson Pro series fan whose lights burned out again just last week and it blew the fuse in the light fixture out again. I had a deja vu moment that this happened years before and luckily I found the pack of replacement fuses I ordered online from a parts store. If you open up the light fixture, there's plastic connector tube that I could unscrew and inside was a blackened 1.25A fuse.

If you can find the parts list for the fan, order a few fuse backups and switch to lower wattage bulbs if you can. Not sure if your fan model has the same kind of issue, but it's happened twice to me over the last 9 years.

Switching to LED bulbs might help solve the issue, but I have no experience with them since I haven't used up my incandescents yet.

 

[bitbob]

I know this is over 5 years later, but this forum post was the #1 google search result for "y59 b 120c" -- and I found it, as I was suffering the exact same scenario as the OP. I just wanted to add some additional things that I found, while trying to figure out *WTF* is this part, why is it there, and how to "fix" it once it failed --

TL;DR -- the "Y59 B 120C" part is a current and temperature limiter, apparently introduced (by design) to limit the maximum current (and therefore maximum light bulb wattage) to meet new Federal energy efficiency design standards introduced as a result of The Energy Policy Act of 2005 (EPACT 2005).

Unfortunately, this part can fail -- and it must be 'resolved' to get your lights working again.


The way I understand the "Y" switch typically works: excess current causes the temperature limiter/switch to trip indirectly (via the internal resistor's self-heating properties), rather than the ambient temperature outside of the device causing it to trip due to excessive temperature detected. However, if something inside this electromechanical switch fails, then it likely needs replaced (e.g., a catastrophic failure possibly caused by a short high-current spike when/while a light bulb burns out ?!?)


More Details:

Specifically, if the current flowing through the switch goes above the specified 'current limit' then a "resistor inside the limiter heats the bimetal disk to its cut-off temperature T[A] very quickly. The bimetal disk snaps suddenly and breaks the contacts of the switch." In theory, once the switch is 'powered off' (enough so the 'self-holding' resistor won't keep the bimetal disk 'open') it should 'cool off' and work again.

1) Information on the government regulation that brought this 'feature' to your ceiling fan in the first place:
See: Docket (EERE-2006-TP-0121) Document on government regulation site (regulations.gov)
Likewise, see: https://www.regulations.gov/document/EERE-2006-TP-0121-0003
... has several comments/discussion points about new regulations -- including the statement about "[..] manufacturers of these ceiling fan light kits would be required to incorporate some measure such as a fuse, circuit breaker or current-limiting device to ensure the light kit was not capable of operating with a lamp or lamps totaling more than 190 watts. 71 FR 42181."

2) Information on the current/temperature limiter 'switch' device:

The manufacturer (Limitor) of the "Y Switch" :

Main site:
https://www.limitor.com/

The "Y" switch page:

Current and Temperature Limiter Y | Limitor

The temperature and current limiter has its own self-holding device, is very small and has a cast-tight housing.

www.limitor.com

... and various specifications of the "Y" switch part itself:

https://www.limitor.com/contentfiles/product-datasheets/Y_englisch.pdf

https://www.limitor.com/contentfiles/product-datasheets/Haltewiderstandswerte_englisch.pdf

https://www.limitor.com/contentfiles/product-datasheets/Tripping_resistor_table.pdf

If I read these correctly, then "Y59 B 120C / B04*" means:
Y59 = "Y5" unsealed housing/package, with wiring/connection type "9" (??)
B = 23 kOhm 'self-holding' resistor (keeps bimetal switch open after it trips, until switch is de-powered)
120C = Temperature cut-off (T[A])
B04* = Tripping resistor w/ special tolerance (+/- 20%) and limit of 7.50 Amps


Unfortunately, I am guessing when certain light bulbs 'burn out' or fail, the current/temperature limit switch fails and cannot be easily replaced.

As a result, you may:
1) completely replace your entire ceiling fan/light assembly (at TBD environmental impact), due to this "energy saving" feature failing
2) attempt to acquire the same "Y" switch part from TBD source at TBD cost (apparently not readily available as a service part from the manufacturer)
3) use other suggestions in forum above, at TBD "risk" due to possibly exceeding federal government energy conserving design standards and/or product design limitations.

 

[bitbob]

And, an interesting thread on r/electricians that appears to verify the purpose & behavior of this "Y switch"

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/4erbjb

 

[sparky 1971]

I've pitched a whole bunch of wattage limiters for the same reason. In this day and age, it's unlikely a ceiling fan fixture is going to ever see more than a 15 watt led lamp. If someone does has a stash of 100 watt incandescent's laying around they want to put in, that's ok with me too.