Ceiling fan issue

[jjgrappler]

We remodeled our son's bedroom and are replacing the ceiling fan. The ceiling fan is controlled with 2 switches on the wall in the room. When I went to replace the ceiling fan and hooked the new fan up it has constant power. The light kit will not come on and the switches do not control the fan or lights at all. We did not replace or mess with any wiring at all. The box has grounds, 2 blacks, and 2 white wires. I hooked whites together, ground to ground, black to black and black to blue for the light kit. I tested it with a non-contact voltage meter and the black to black has constant power and the black to blue only has power when the switch is flipped to on but the lights did not come on. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[wssix99]

Did you read the instructions with the new fan? Many new models require that you use special switches and controllers with them.

 

[75gmck25]

It sounds like power runs to your ceiling fixture, and the wall switches are connected as two switch loops for power to the fan and light (although you would need a 14/3 or 12/3 to have enough wires to make that scheme work).

If it worked before, how was it wired to the light and fan? Most new smart witches are designed so that you need power at the wall switch, so switch loops don't work.

 

[jjgrappler]

Thats how it's wired 2 12/3 wires come into the ceiling box from the wall switches. I took the ceiling fan down before we did the drywall and did not take pictures or anything like that because i've never had ceiling fans give me problems like this.

 

[jjgrappler]

Did you read the instructions with the new fan? Many new models require that you use special switches and controllers with them.

I will have to check, but i've used this same model fan downstairs and haven't had any problems.

 

[Jim greengo]

How many wires are coming out of the fan?
A lot of Newer stuff is meant to be controlled by a remote.

 

[sparky 1971]

There are a couple of possibilities. Start by getting a real meter and use the ncvt for what it was designed for, letting you know if the potential to get shocked exists. Even a cheap Harbor Freight meter will do.

 

[jjgrappler]

How many wires are coming out of the fan?
A lot of Newer stuff is meant to be controlled by a remote.

4-a green ground, white, blue for the lights and a black for the fan.

 

[Skooterj]

4-a green ground, white, blue for the lights and a black for the fan.

And you have 6 wires coming from the switches, 2 blacks, 2 whites, and 2 greens? And both switches are fed from the same breaker? And does the fan have a remote, or just pull cords?

 

[coldh2o]

I think the wiring at the fan is typical, sounds like maybe a neutral issue upstream? Would have to see how the two switches are fed and wired, maybe the black/white aren't used/identified as expected.

 

[jjgrappler]

 

[jjgrappler]

Thats how its wired in the switch box.

 

[sparky 1971]

All that the pictures show is that you have black, white, and ground wires. The blacks are on the switches just like they should be. I am going to take a guess and say that one black is for the light (blue), the other black is for the fan (black), the whites will all go together and the same for the grounds. You might get lucky with the idiot stick. Turn the switches off and see if it lights up at the ceiling box. If it doesn't, your well on the way. Then, turn on one switch and see if one of the black lights up. If it does, turn that switch off and turn the other on and see if the other black lights up. If that doesn't work, we need to know the voltages at the light box. Black to white on one cable, then the other, black from one cable to the white of the other, switches on, switches off etc. The only way to do that is with a meter.

 

[jjgrappler]

All that the pictures show is that you have black, white, and ground wires. The blacks are on the switches just like they should be. I am going to take a guess and say that one black is for the light (blue), the other black is for the fan (black), the whites will all go together and the same for the grounds. You might get lucky with the idiot stick. Turn the switches off and see if it lights up at the ceiling box. If it doesn't, your well on the way. Then, turn on one switch and see if one of the black lights up. If it does, turn that switch off and turn the other on and see if the other black lights up. If that doesn't work, we need to know the voltages at the light box. Black to white on one cable, then the other, black from one cable to the white of the other, switches on, switches off etc. The only way to do that is with a meter.

Why is there a black jumper backstabbed from one switch to another? I literally have never seen anything wired like this in my life.

 

[sparky 1971]

Why is there a black jumper backstabbed from one switch to another? I literally have never seen anything wired like this in my life.

It's just jumping the hot wire from one switch to the other. I see it done all the time. I would take it apart and pigtail two jumpers off the hot, one for each switch, but I doubt what you have going on is causing the problem.

 

[jjgrappler]

It's just jumping the hot wire from one switch to the other. I see it done all the time. I would take it apart and pigtail two jumpers off the hot, one for each switch, but I doubt what you have going on is causing the problem.

Is there a chance the switches are just bad and need replacing? It seems simple but could that be causing the issues I am having?

 

[sparky 1971]

Is there a chance the switches are just bad and need replacing? It seems simple but could that be causing the issues I am having?

Could be, but it's not very likely that both would quit at the same time you swapped fans. Does your tester light up with anything at the ceiling box with the switches off? What about with one switch on? How about with the first switch off and the second on?

 

[jjgrappler]

Could be, but it's not very likely that both would quit at the same time you swapped fans. Does your tester light up with anything at the ceiling box with the switches off? What about with one switch on? How about with the first switch off and the second on?

One black wire lights up with switches off. When the first light switch on the left is turned on both black wires are hot then

 

[sparky 1971]

One black wire lights up with switches off. When the first light switch on the left is turned on both black wires are hot then

That doesn't help much. The first wire might just be lighting up because of an induced voltage. I think you're going to have to break down and buy a meter. The box stores have cheap digital meters for around $30, if there's a Harbor Freight around you could probably spend less than 20.

 

[PelicanPines]

Hunter Ceiling fans have a "hidden fuse" that is designed to PREVENT you from putting too many "watts of lighting" in the lighting sockets. This fuse can fail without over Watting it too. The Fuse is not required but needs to be jumped... as there is no replacement for that fuse.

The only way to diagnose this is with a meter and being careful. To see where you got juice and where you don't. It's a known issue of Hunter fans... I am not sure if it's on others.

If you call Hunter.... their solution is to buy a new fan/lighting kit. My solution is to jump the NOT NEEDED fuse. I say this because I trust you will ONLY put the recommended wattage in the lights.

 

[75gmck25]

You can buy a cheap multi-meter at HD, Walmart, Autozone, etc.

I'm very confused about exactly what cables come into the switch box. I can see three white wires apparently pigtailed together in the box, so that would mean three cables, each with a black, white and ground. Is that what you have at the switches?

 

[jjgrappler]

That doesn't help much. The first wire might just be lighting up because of an induced voltage. I think you're going to have to break down and buy a meter. The box stores have cheap digital meters for around $30, if there's a Harbor Freight around you could probably spend less than 20.

I have a multimeter. How do you want me to do this?

 

[jjgrappler]

You can buy a cheap multi-meter at HD, Walmart, Autozone, etc.

I'm very confused about exactly what cables come into the switch box. I can see three white wires apparently pigtailed together in the box, so that would mean three cables, each with a black, white and ground. Is that what you have at the switches?

So I didnt see it until I shut off the breaker and looked in the switch box. There are 4 cables that come into the box. The left switch actually does turn on and off the lights but the other switch isn't turning off the fan, it has constant power. Bad switch?

 

[sparky 1971]

I have a multimeter. How do you want me to do this?

Start by checking all of the possible combinations at the ceiling box. Black-white, black- other white, black-black, white-white. left switch on, right switch off, left switch off, right switch on, both off, both on. And draw a picture while you are doing it. You might even mark the wires with some tape just to help keep them straight. If the way it worked before was that you had a switch for the light and a separate switch for the fan, you are looking for two different combinations that give you 120ish volts with the switches on, but 0 when they are off.

So I didnt see it until I shut off the breaker and looked in the switch box. There are 4 cables that come into the box. The left switch actually does turn on and off the lights but the other switch isn't turning off the fan, it has constant power. Bad switch?

It could be a bad switch, but that's a heckuva coincidence that the switch went bad when you took the old fan down. If you can't come up with two combinations of 120, you could try a new switch.

 

[mrVanagon]

This seems like a simple problem to chase down.
1. Turn off the breaker
2. Remove both switches and leave all black wires sticking out of the wall box
3. Turn on the breaker and check for power with the non-contact tester. Make mental note of which wire(s) makes the tester beep
4. Turn off the breaker and mark the hot wire with tape.
5. Install new switches so that both have power to one side and a wire to the ceiling on the other side.

This is really not as hard as it seems.

 

[sparky 1971]

This seems like a simple problem to chase down.
1. Turn off the breaker
2. Remove both switches and leave all black wires sticking out of the wall box
3. Turn on the breaker and check for power with the non-contact tester. Make mental note of which wire(s) makes the tester beep
4. Turn off the breaker and mark the hot wire with tape.
5. Install new switches so that both have power to one side and a wire to the ceiling on the other side.

This is really not as hard as it seems.

And if the problem happens to be that he's lost the neutral? The ncvt will light up, as it is now, but nothings going to work. NCTV's are not tools for troubleshooting. They are meant to verify potential to get shocked.

 

[jjgrappler]

And if the problem happens to be that he's lost the neutral? The ncvt will light up, as it is now, but nothings going to work. NCTV's are not tools for troubleshooting. They are meant to verify potential to get shocked.

So I figured it out. It was a bad switch, cut the breaker installed 2 new switches and wired it right with no jumpers or backstabbing. Thanks guys for the help

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This seems like a simple problem to chase down.
1. Turn off the breaker
2. Remove both switches and leave all black wires sticking out of the wall box
3. Turn on the breaker and check for power with the non-contact tester. Make mental note of which wire(s) makes the tester beep
4. Turn off the breaker and mark the hot wire with tape.
5. Install new switches so that both have power to one side and a wire to the ceiling on the other side.

This is really not as hard as it seems.

not a good tool to troubleshoot with... use a digital multimeter instead