Ceiling Insulation Question

[nicholsmf]

My shop will be completed in a few phases. I have some questions about Phase 2, insulation.

Phase 1 will be completed by my builder and will leave me with a 30 X 40 X12 Block building with one insulated walk out door, one insulated garage door, no windows, and an open ceiling (exposed trusses) to an uninsulated roof. Roof will have ridge vent and soffit vents.

Phase 2 will be to insulate the roof and / or ceiling. I am in East Tennessee, so pretty mild climate. If I finish the ceiling, on the bottom side of the bottom chord of the trusses, and insulate on top of that finished ceiling, would that be proper? Seems it would prevent heat loss through the ceiling while keeping the space around the trusses (attic) as unconditioned space that will vent through soffit and ridge vent.

Heating and possibly cooling will come later along with potentially framing, insulating, and finishing interior walls if necessary. I think for my mild climate stopping heat loss through the ceiling may be sufficient.

 

[DC73]

If I finish the ceiling, on the bottom side of the bottom chord of the trusses, and insulate on top of that finished ceiling, would that be proper?

Yes. But you need to make sure your trusses are designed for the weight of a ceiling and insulation.

DC

 

[brewchief]

If you are useing block construction there are foam products that can be used to fill the empty cores in the blocks and provide some insulation value, loose beads poured in are one way and more recently liquid foam that sets quickly ( different from typical spray foam). It might be worthwhile to at least get some pricing.

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[nicholsmf]

Yes. But you need to make sure your trusses are designed for the weight of a ceiling and insulation.

DC

I will definitely confirm this with my builder.

 

[nicholsmf]

If you are useing block construction there are foam products that can be used to fill the empty cores in the blocks and provide some insulation value, loose beads poured in are one way and more recently liquid foam that sets quickly ( different from typical spray foam). It might be worthwhile to at least get some pricing.

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I am waiting on a price for that right now. I've read so many mixed reviews on insulating the block cores. Some say it isn't worth it because the temperature still transfers between the cores and on the edges of the block. Some say the wall can have an R13 value (seems unlikely but I'm not sure).

I'll see what the cost comes back as and go from there.

 

[burleyfarm]

I am waiting on a price for that right now. I've read so many mixed reviews on insulating the block cores. Some say it isn't worth it because the temperature still transfers between the cores and on the edges of the block. Some say the wall can have an R13 value (seems unlikely but I'm not sure).



I'll see what the cost comes back as and go from there.

Stay away from any type of insulation involving filler in the cavity. This doesn’t work and is a huge waste of money. We had a 2000+ sf block garage built for a maintenance facility at work with loose insulation installed in the block cavities. You could feel the cold radiating from the walls in all areas especially in those areas where people would be sitting such as break room, office and the restrooms and shower. Our furnace seemed to run constantly in the winter. There is only one way to stop bridging. The best way to insulate block is to apply foam over the walls to create a thermal break then furring strips for your final wall finish or you could do a hybrid by adding a stud wall with fiberglass or cellulose. Do a search as there is lots of good information online.

Here’s one option. https://images.app.goo.gl/JtqZJHigLyR2FzPP8

And another. https://images.app.goo.gl/DGDpzZs5BYKF2FJW9


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[nicholsmf]

Stay away from any type of insulation involving filler in the cavity. This doesn’t work and is a huge waste of money. We had a 2000+ sf block garage built for a maintenance facility at work with loose insulation installed in the block cavities. You could feel the cold radiating from the walls in all areas especially in those areas where people would be sitting such as break room, office and the restrooms and shower. Our furnace seemed to run constantly in the winter. There is only one way to stop bridging. The best way to insulate block is to apply foam over the walls to create a thermal break then furring strips for your final wall finish or you could do a hybrid by adding a stud wall with fiberglass or cellulose. Do a search as there is lots of good information online.

Here’s one option. https://images.app.goo.gl/JtqZJHigLyR2FzPP8

And another. https://images.app.goo.gl/DGDpzZs5BYKF2FJW9


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Thank you for the input!

 

[TractorJeff]

Still I wonder about this "Liquid Foam", though I do understand "Thermal Bridging"

 

[930dreamer]

Based on this, I'd want full insulation or you might not want to be in the shop during the summer?

"Rockwood experiences extreme seasonal variation in the perceived humidity.

The muggier period of the year lasts for 4.0 months, from May 22 to September 24, during which time the comfort level is muggy, oppressive, or miserable at least 20% of the time. The muggiest day of the year is July 24, with muggy conditions 81% of the time.

The least muggy day of the year is December 24, when muggy conditions are essentially unheard of ".

 

[brewchief]

Still I wonder about this "Liquid Foam", though I do understand "Thermal Bridging"

Look up retrofoam, it comes out of the nozzle like shaving cream already expanded.

Filling the cavities is probably far from ideal but in a mild climate it would be better then nothing, if a stud wall and insulation were added later it would still provide some added value as well.

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[The Cobbler]

core insulating the block will have some effect, but the thermal transfer on the webs will be huge (IMO) the cores are somewhat insulated already with the air space in them ( to what r value, I don't know ) also I don't buy the r13 with the core insulation . maybe r13 where there is insulation but the overall envelope I have a hard time believing.
If your trusses support it, cover your ceiling & blow in fiberglass on top of that. pretty sure that is your most economical way to insulate. 9 it was for me anyway )
as the saying goes, buy insulation once, pay each time your heat/AC comes on. the more insulation the more comfortable you will be

 

[nicholsmf]

Based on this, I'd want full insulation or you might not want to be in the shop during the summer?

"Rockwood experiences extreme seasonal variation in the perceived humidity.

The muggier period of the year lasts for 4.0 months, from May 22 to September 24, during which time the comfort level is muggy, oppressive, or miserable at least 20% of the time. The muggiest day of the year is July 24, with muggy conditions 81% of the time.

The least muggy day of the year is December 24, when muggy conditions are essentially unheard of ".

I spend most days outside working in the summer. So while it is certainly muggy, humid, etc., I my shop could be even 15 degrees cooler and shaded, it would feel great.

 

[nicholsmf]

Look up retrofoam, it comes out of the nozzle like shaving cream already expanded.

Filling the cavities is probably far from ideal but in a mild climate it would be better then nothing, if a stud wall and insulation were added later it would still provide some added value as well.

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That's my thoughts. I will always have the option to frame, insulate, and fiish the walls if I feel the need to. So, if insulating block cores is only a couple thousand, then I might as well do it. Even if it isn't great, it's something.

 

[nicholsmf]

core insulating the block will have some effect, but the thermal transfer on the webs will be huge (IMO) the cores are somewhat insulated already with the air space in them ( to what r value, I don't know ) also I don't buy the r13 with the core insulation . maybe r13 where there is insulation but the overall envelope I have a hard time believing.
If your trusses support it, cover your ceiling & blow in fiberglass on top of that. pretty sure that is your most economical way to insulate. 9 it was for me anyway )
as the saying goes, buy insulation once, pay each time your heat/AC comes on. the more insulation the more comfortable you will be

I'm not sure what trusses my builder planned when he gave me a price, but I will definitely make sure before trusses are ordered that they are designed to support a ceiling and insulation.

 

[930dreamer]

I spend most days outside working in the summer. So while it is certainly muggy, humid, etc., I my shop could be even 15 degrees cooler and shaded, it would feel great.

Full insulation so you can add an air conditioner or mini split for a/c and heat.