Ceiling joist support suggestions

[Catmeds]

Total novice here. I need to repair a 20x24 detached garage on our property that's had several incidents of storm damage over the years. Time and money have been an issue. Regardless, I'm working on plans to get this started in September.

We plan on tearing off the roof and second floor. The trusses are set on the 24' length of the garage and I plan on switching this to the 20' instead and reusing what I can as far as trusses go (they weren't bird mouthed but tapered at the tail).

The issue I can't figure out: I was trying not to use a floor-to-ceiling beam (holding up a cross beam) to support the ceiling joist to prevent any sagging.

I can't rule out that I won't use the above space for storage in the future (nothing much, I'll only have a 4 pitch roof). Is this possible? I wanted to keep the floor space as open as possible .

Also I'm sure this will take us a while since I work two jobs, any advice on how to protect from the elements until the garage is closed up?

While some women are probably awesome at this kind of work, I am not so forgive me if some of this seems simple. I'm finding it difficult to picture it from what I'm reading online. Thanks!

 

[astroracer]

How is the 2nd floor framed now? Attic trusses?
I would suggest ordering 22' attic trusses for your repair job. Have a bunch of friend over for a roof raising. Pull off the old and set the new trusses. Sheathing in the roof will get it "mostly" weather tight if you throw some roofing felt on it. Should be able to do this in a weekend if you have handy friends...
Mark

 

[mike93lx]

Yup, properly designed attic trusses will take care of that easily. Don't modify the current trusses to reuse them

 

[bczygan]

Photos needed.

Bill

 

[johnnyradiant]

Are they currently trusses or just rafters?

 

[Innovate1]

Sounds like you still want some limited storage above the ceiling. What holds up the middle of the second floor now? Seems extreme to remove the second floor unless it has a lot of damage or is just in very poor shape. Photos would help a lot.

 

[Catmeds]

There is a lot of damage to the roof and having a second story makes it hard to do repairs. Right now there is a floor-to-ceiling beam with a cross beam that holds up the joist to the second floor which is rotted and needs to come out as well, making the second floor very unsafe to walk on. I would only use the upper level in the future by sliding a few things across the beams to get them out of the way.

In addition, the garage is taller than our single story house and it's a bit of an eyesore to me. We didn't use the 2nd floor much so when minor damage started occurring it took us a while to notice it.

I'll take some pictures and post them. Maybe there are other options for me that will not be as labor intensive. Thanks for everyone's replies so far.

 

[Innovate1]

One big question is if the trusses are damaged. I don't understand the reason for turning them to run the other way. If they are turned so that the truss ends are over an overhead door then a beam will be needed to support the load.

 

[Catmeds]

One big question is if the trusses are damaged. I don't understand the reason for turning them to run the other way. If they are turned so that the truss ends are over an overhead door then a beam will be needed to support the load.

Right now that's the way they're facing. And I should have said rafters instead of trusses, my apologies. So some of the wood is salvageable.

 

[casmurbax]

What are the rafter sizes? Pitch?

So you want the rafters to be now perpendicular to the door ? running 20 ft wide instead of the current length of 24?

 

[mike93lx]

An to go unsupported over a 20 ft span will require lvl's or trusses. I still contend that an attic truss is the way to go, but either way, this requires engineering.

 

[Catmeds]

What are the rafter sizes? Pitch?

So you want the rafters to be now perpendicular to the door ? running 20 ft wide instead of the current length of 24?

Yes. The pitch I would like to switch it to is 4/12 but I honestly can't tell you what it is now. The front section of the roof is steeper with a dormer and the back section of the garage roof is almost flat. A oak branch has punctured a hole in the back portion and knocked down a rafter plus cracked one.

I'm attaching the only picture I have currently on my phone which is just the outside. I had to rotate the picture a bit so it looks a little off. You can see the hole thru the window. And a buzzard/dog staring contest.


View attachment 910815

 

[Catmeds]

Thank you. Rather than make things more difficult for myself I'm waiting on a quote for trusses. This seems like my best option. Thanks for all the responses.

 

[firebirdparts]

On a 20 foot wide building with no 2nd floor, you don't even need trusses if you don't want them. Up to you. Just ordinary rafters and ceiling joists would be fine.

 

[mike93lx]

On a 20 foot wide building with no 2nd floor, you don't even need trusses if you don't want them. Up to you. Just ordinary rafters and ceiling joists would be fine.

He wants to use it as storage.

 

[wssix99]

So you want the rafters to be now perpendicular to the door ? running 20 ft wide instead of the current length of 24?

Yes.

You can't just do this without some other major structural work around the door, which I think is where I expect casmurbax's question comes from. Right now, your walls perpendicular to the door support all the roof load and there is almost nothing bearing down on the header going over the door.

If you rotate the roof, the header over the door is going to take 1/2 of the roof load (plus any other loads for the storage) and will need to be sizeable; with structure in the wall on either side of the door added to support that.

 

[Radix2]

If you are just looking for estimates, you can go to menards.com and spec trusses to meet your requirements. Trusses will be the fast and cheap way to go,

 

[lakeroadster]

You can't just do this without some other major structural work around the door, which I think is where I expect casmurbax's question comes from. Right now, your walls perpendicular to the door support all the roof load and there is almost nothing bearing down on the header going over the door.

If you rotate the roof, the header over the door is going to take 1/2 of the roof load (plus any other loads for the storage) and will need to be sizeable; with structure in the wall on either side of the door added to support that.

Good point but it may not really be a problem. It's currently a 2 story building so the first floor wall / headers had to be designed to support some weight.

But without being there and seeing the actual framing structure it's impossible to know.

 

[bczygan]

I designed reinforcement renovations for a garage like that.

The problem that most garages of that design and age have, is that the joists and beams weren't properly engineered.

The dormer typically adds a load as well, that is not properly supported.

The solution was cutting in and installing LVL beams into the middle of floor joist spans, to cut down spans for the floor joists. Usually doubled LVL's can keep the headroom, especially if you do it in a couple of places.

That's the simplest and cheapest method.

No need to remove anything, unless you need new shingles anyway. In that case, strip shingles down to the roof deck to reduce weight so it's easier to jack up the ceiling joists to level in preparation for cutting in the beams.

Bill (Designer)