Ceiling material

[DirtRoad]

Im currently insulating my pole barn ceiling (20x40 and trusses 24” OC) and then after that is done I will be adding a vapor barrier. At this rate its going to take me probably a year just to insulate it because of my limited time and the crazy cost of insulation. But I am always thinking ahead to what needs to be done next.

After the insulation and vapor barrier is done I need to decide on what ceiling material to use. This is where I am stuck.

I don’t want to deal with drywall because of the labor involved and the extra cost of finishing it, would I actually have to finish it if I where to use it though? The cost of drywall is pretty minimal compared to other options, as long as I don’t finish it, maybe just mud and tape. But I don’t think I will like the look, it would always look unfinished and that will drive me nuts. How thin of drywall can I go without worrying about sagging if I where to choose this?
I see a lot of people use 7/16” OSB and just paint it. Its not cheap though at about $13 (that’s including tax) a sheet plus primer and paint. So that comes to roughly 25 sheets at $13 each so just the sheets would cost me $325 then add in paint and primer and im probably looking at around $500. Not bad but not great cost wise.

I would LOVE to use steel siding just like the siding is on the outside of the building and this was my first choice, it looks super **** and totally professional. The cheapest I can find it is at Menards and its $110 a square plus tax and on top of that whatever hardware I need to go around the perimeter to hold the sheets in place at the edges. Just the squares alone will cost me roughly $1000 plus the hardware im looking at roughly $1200. So sadly what I want I cant afford and even if I could afford it I cant justify it for doing JUST the ceiling.

Something to keep in mind also is im a one man band, I don’t have anyone that can help me hang whatever it is I choose. So I need it to be a light as possible so I don’t injure myself hanging it and im also going to have to figure out how to hang it by myself.

So really I have a lot of questions and hoping someone can point me in the right direction, any input would help me big time.

So to sum up most of my questions, what is the most cost effective, good looking, easy to hang material that I can use, what are my options?

 

[paullie]

Dont look at the "store" for steel. I just got some a few weeks ago for $67/sq from my local lumberyard. You can save more $ if you are willing to use #2 steel, that's what i used in my shop, not sure why it's #2 but it's cheaper. Get online and look around.

You dont HAVE to do it all at the same time, do half of it, that's $300 or so. Not sure what you need at the edge, i just butted mine against the wall, if it's for "looks" you can do it later.

 

[Falcon67]

Well - your OSB will still be cheaper per square even with paint. However, each 4x8 sheet weighs about 55 lbs, so you will need help to hang it or rent a drywall lift - or engineer something to hold it up in place while you screw it down. I made some hangers that I could screw to the joists and some support poles that allowed me to hang sheets by my self, but it was a hassle. I found a caulk that comes close to matching and I sealed the seams with that. I might paint later - too broke and lazy right now.

You WILL need to make sure your seams at the panel edges/overlap are sealed and at the edges where they meet the walls. Your vapor barrier my well take care of this. I did not use one and caulking the seams made a huge difference in the performance of the ceiling and insulation.

 

[DirtRoad]

Dont look at the "store" for steel. I just got some a few weeks ago for $67/sq from my local lumberyard. You can save more $ if you are willing to use #2 steel, that's what i used in my shop, not sure why it's #2 but it's cheaper. Get online and look around.

You dont HAVE to do it all at the same time, do half of it, that's $300 or so. Not sure what you need at the edge, i just butted mine against the wall, if it's for "looks" you can do it later.

I did do a lot of searching for cheaper steel siding but surprisingly there isn’t a supplier within 100 miles of me.

The reason I would want to buy it all at once is because when I used to do vinyl siding it was always best to buy all you need plus an extra square all at one time. The reason for this is styles change, colors get changed or discontinued, prices can jump etc etc. Would **** to buy it one square at a time and be half done with your house and then all of a sudden you cannot get that siding anymore or it changed in someway and wont match what you have already done.

I am worried the same would be true for steel siding.

Im also not sure what I would need for the perimeter, figured something like what you would use for vinyl siding, J channel. I could but it right up against the perimeter with nothing there but I don’t think it would look right.

Well - your OSB will still be cheaper per square even with paint. However, each 4x8 sheet weighs about 55 lbs, so you will need help to hang it or rent a drywall lift - or engineer something to hold it up in place while you screw it down. I made some hangers that I could screw to the joists and some support poles that allowed me to hang sheets by my self, but it was a hassle. I found a caulk that comes close to matching and I sealed the seams with that. I might paint later - too broke and lazy right now.
You WILL need to make sure your seams at the panel edges/overlap are sealed and at the edges where they meet the walls. Your vapor barrier my well take care of this. I did not use one and caulking the seams made a huge difference in the performance of the ceiling and insulation.

As of right now your right OSB and paint are the most cost effective. Would it be possible to rip the sheets in half and hang them that way? I could handle a half sheet by myself no problem. The only problem I see is I would have a lot more seems to deal with and it may look terrible to have that many seems. I did plan on caulking all seems also, ripping the sheets in half would up the cost of caulk big time though.

 

[DirtRoad]

I do have a seperate question. When i do my vapor barrier do any of you tape the seems? My goal is to not just insulate but to also make the shop as air tight as possible.

 

[PCO6]

I had the same "air tight" goal as you and I taped mine.

 

[5lima30]

How about corrugated metal roofing or barn metal roofing it is lighter and usually cheaper than the galalume (sp?) JMHO.

 

[tdkkart]

I did do a lot of searching for cheaper steel siding but surprisingly there isn’t a supplier within 100 miles of me.

Hard to believe there's not a single lumber yard or Big Box store within 100mi??

Anyway, Menard's list pole building steel right now at $70/square, or about $560 for your 800sqft, + the trim pieces.
Yes, it's more expensive than OSB, but it looks awesome and is a one time purchase. I did mine a few years ago, hurt at the time but I don't regret it at all now.

I had painted OSB in my last garage(installed by the previous owner), looked finer for awhile, then started sagging over time. Neither OSB or sheetrock seem to last long in areas that aren't full time climate controlled.

 

[Kevin54]

Im currently insulating my pole barn ceiling (20x40 and trusses 24” OC) and then after that is done I will be adding a vapor barrier. At this rate its going to take me probably a year just to insulate it because of my limited time and the crazy cost of insulation. But I am always thinking ahead to what needs to be done next.

After the insulation and vapor barrier is done I need to decide on what ceiling material to use. This is where I am stuck.

I don’t want to deal with drywall because of the labor involved and the extra cost of finishing it, would I actually have to finish it if I where to use it though? The cost of drywall is pretty minimal compared to other options, as long as I don’t finish it, maybe just mud and tape. But I don’t think I will like the look, it would always look unfinished and that will drive me nuts. How thin of drywall can I go without worrying about sagging if I where to choose this?
I see a lot of people use 7/16” OSB and just paint it. Its not cheap though at about $13 (that’s including tax) a sheet plus primer and paint. So that comes to roughly 25 sheets at $13 each so just the sheets would cost me $325 then add in paint and primer and im probably looking at around $500. Not bad but not great cost wise.

I would LOVE to use steel siding just like the siding is on the outside of the building and this was my first choice, it looks super **** and totally professional. The cheapest I can find it is at Menards and its $110 a square plus tax and on top of that whatever hardware I need to go around the perimeter to hold the sheets in place at the edges. Just the squares alone will cost me roughly $1000 plus the hardware im looking at roughly $1200. So sadly what I want I cant afford and even if I could afford it I cant justify it for doing JUST the ceiling.

Something to keep in mind also is im a one man band, I don’t have anyone that can help me hang whatever it is I choose. So I need it to be a light as possible so I don’t injure myself hanging it and im also going to have to figure out how to hang it by myself.

So really I have a lot of questions and hoping someone can point me in the right direction, any input would help me big time.

So to sum up most of my questions, what is the most cost effective, good looking, easy to hang material that I can use, what are my options?

You don't want to go any less than 1/2" on the ceiling. You want to make sure that the drywall runs 90 degrees to the trusses or you will get sags. Trust me on that. My family room ceiling was done with the sheets running with the trusses and it has a noticable sag in between every truss.

For the money, I'd go with drywall. You could hang it yourself and hire a guy to finish it. Most drywall guys can have the finishing knocked out in a few days time.

 

[Highbeam]

I'm with you on the metal. Pole barns move a lot and the sheetrock doesn't like to move so it can crack. Moisture condensing on the sheetrock can't be good, and the effort required to install is way more than metal. The rock, I only considered 5/8 firecode rock, offers a better thermal barrier for fire and does look nice when it is finished smooth and glossy but this also means that if your structure isn't really good that you will see any waves or screw ups in the framing. Now and in the future as things settle.

So in my reasearch the rock cost 500$ and the metal was 1000$ for my 1800SF. The 500$ difference is not enough to pay for all the paint, and agony of working on a ceiling 14 feet in the air. A wall is one thing but mudding, taping, sanding, and painting a ceiling that high is a neck ache waiting to happen. Major labor savings with metal and I believe cost savings on the whole job.

I am now adding joists to the trusses so that I can hang a ceiling. I hope to use metal. I like the light weight on the structure too. Sheetrock is heavy all the time.

 

[Falcon67]

Sure, you could rip them in half. FWIW - I covered 960 sq/ft of OSB ceiling 4x8 sheets with about 7 tubes of caulk @ $4 something each.

 

[DirtRoad]

Hard to believe there's not a single lumber yard or Big Box store within 100mi??

Anyway, Menard's list pole building steel right now at $70/square, or about $560 for your 800sqft, + the trim pieces.
Yes, it's more expensive than OSB, but it looks awesome and is a one time purchase. I did mine a few years ago, hurt at the time but I don't regret it at all now.

I had painted OSB in my last garage(installed by the previous owner), looked finer for awhile, then started sagging over time. Neither OSB or sheetrock seem to last long in areas that aren't full time climate controlled.

Well ya there is lumber yards and box stores that carry it but they are all the middle man so the cost is a lot higher than getting it straight from the manufacturer. I geuss what I meant is that there isn’t a manufacturer within 100 miles as far as I can tell.
That’s weird because I was just in Menards a few weeks ago and the cheapest they have it at is$110 a square. What else would I need to use steel siding for the ceiling? Something needs to go around the parameter to make it look right, just don’t know what its called or what to ask for.

You don't want to go any less than 1/2" on the ceiling. You want to make sure that the drywall runs 90 degrees to the trusses or you will get sags. Trust me on that. My family room ceiling was done with the sheets running with the trusses and it has a noticable sag in between every truss.

For the money, I'd go with drywall. You could hang it yourself and hire a guy to finish it. Most drywall guys can have the finishing knocked out in a few days time.

That might be a good option but I bet that by the time I buy drywall and pay a finisher I could have bought steel siding. I might be wrong, gotta get some prices together and check it out.

Sure, you could rip them in half. FWIW - I covered 960 sq/ft of OSB ceiling 4x8 sheets with about 7 tubes of caulk @ $4 something each.

This is sound more appealing, it would be doable for one guy.
BTW I went threw your shop build thread, its beautiful.

 

[Highbeam]

J-channel is the edge stuff.

 

[DirtRoad]

So its just like vinyl siding. Same terminology.

 

[Highbeam]

I've never worked with vinyl but I've bought and installed lots of J-channel on metal buildings.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I believe the stuff for interior use is called EZ Liner. I think it might be a thinner guage than regular barn siding steel.

FYI, I hung 7/16" OSB in my garage by myself. I hung some blocks to hold it from the ceiling along with using a dead man or T bar. Onceit was in place I nailed it inplace with a framing nailerand caulked the seams. OSB should be coming down in price over the winter. I try to buy my when it's closer to $7-8/sheet.

 

[Falcon67]

>BTW I went threw your shop build thread, its beautiful.
Thanks for the kind words.

OSB bounces around like oil lately - all mine came at $7.95/sheet. Then I was in HD about 30 days later and it was $17. Last week I think it was $13. I asked the lady at the commercial desk WTF - she said they never really know what they will be charging until the truck shows up with a load and an invoice. She said the price has been bouncing around all summer. Glad I bought when I did.

 

[jlckmj]

You really do not need to use any type of J channel with steel. Just but the ends up to the wall, and call it good. If you take your time and lay the sheets out straight, it will look fine.

I have done two shops with steel now, and would not use anything else.

JIm

 

[tdkkart]

http://menards.com/main/flyer.html?&store_code=3518

I entered the Zip and selected the Grand Rapids store, go to the weekly ads, select the Home improvement flyer and go to the upper right corner of page 27. Chart says $69.99 for white steel.

Take the ad in to your local store and ask them what's up??

 

[DirtRoad]

I had the same "air tight" goal as you and I taped mine.

What tape did you use? Is there a tape meant for that?

OSB bounces around like oil lately - all mine came at $7.95/sheet. Then I was in HD about 30 days later and it was $17. Last week I think it was $13. I asked the lady at the commercial desk WTF - she said they never really know what they will be charging until the truck shows up with a load and an invoice. She said the price has been bouncing around all summer. Glad I bought when I did.

I had no idea it jumped around like that. Now that I think about it I coulda swore it was $14 a sheet at HD about a month ago but now I see its about $12 a sheet. Thought I was going nuts but I guess not.

You really do not need to use any type of J channel with steel. Just but the ends up to the wall, and call it good. If you take your time and lay the sheets out straight, it will look fine.
I have done two shops with steel now, and would not use anything else.
JIm

Ya now that I think about it im going to skip the J if I decide to do it. But I also realized that I will have to do the walls first before I can hang the steel on the ceiling. It would look better to **** the siding up to the OSB on the walls (Im using OSB for the walls) than to **** the OSB up to the steeling siding. Hope that makes sense.

http://menards.com/main/flyer.html?&store_code=3518
I entered the Zip and selected the Grand Rapids store, go to the weekly ads, select the Home improvement flyer and go to the upper right corner of page 27. Chart says $69.99 for white steel.
Take the ad in to your local store and ask them what's up??

Those buggers, I asked them what the cheapest steel they had was and they told me $110 was as cheap as they have it, that was only a week ago! Im going back in there with the add lol

 

[jlckmj]

Ya now that I think about it im going to skip the J if I decide to do it. But I also realized that I will have to do the walls first before I can hang the steel on the ceiling. It would look better to **** the siding up to the OSB on the walls (Im using OSB for the walls) than to **** the OSB up to the steeling siding. Hope that makes sense.

That makes perfect sense, that is the way it should be done

Jim

 

[jack stand]

1/2" OSB can and will sag on 2' centers just like drywall. Ripping in half will increase your joints and sagging. If any way possible, go with the white steel, one seam in the middle unless you can find a helper for a half a day, then go full legnth.
Bright
Fire resistant
Washable
DONE

 

[DirtRoad]

Im having a hard time wrapping my head around why it would sag more or be more likely to sag if i ripped the sheets in half. If i do use OSB im going to use 7/16" but steel is in the lead right now if i can get it for $70 a square from menards.

I want to tape my vapor barrier, is there any specific tape i should use? Is it even worth the money and hastle?

 

[rust buster]

I went through the same struggle on my 30'x40' build. I initially wanted drywall or OSB but was talked into the slightly more expensive (up front) cost of the metal and I am SO glad I did. Once it is up, it is done and permanent. Looks great and absolutely zero maintenance or chance of movement, cracks, etc...

I was able to do all of mine with J channel and the specially lag screws (color matched to the panels) for around $800. Definitely saved me lots of time and hassle.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Some where buried in my refurb thread, you will find my ceiling pictures. I added bracing between the joists to prevent any future sagging.

OSB prices will always jump when there is a hurricane, before, during and after one. They will come back down.


There is a place that advertises in the Ohio Auto & RV trader(free one), they make a Michigan edition too. They have a full page ad and are in White Pigeon,Michigan. I'm not sure how close they are to you but they list metal barn siding, white, 10' @$17.50/sheet and 12' sheets for $21. Galvanized is slightly cheaper. I can PM their information ifyou want it.

 

[BirdRacer]

Color shouldn't be a concern. If you can get a deal on the ugliest color you can find, if you turn it over, it should be white on the other side. At least all of the colored metal siding/roofing I have seen is that way.

 

[Falcon67]

hmm - yes, cutting the sheets in half may weaken them a little. It should still be applied long ways across the joists.

As for sagging - I have to say that I haven't seen any when used as ceiling material or as attic floor material. The old shop used 24" OC joists with 7/16" OSB as flooring for storage. I had nearly 1000 lbs of **** on that including crank shafts, boxes of carbs, axles, bumpers - you name it. Easily 15 lbs sq/ft or more. Didn't sag as far as I could tell. I use OSB in the new place as attic floor and from crawling around up there, full sheets and half sheets don't move under my 200+ lb weight. 1/4 sheets do not feel as sturdy as they are only screwed on the ends. But if the sheet covers 3-4 joists, it seems to hold up well.

 

[DirtRoad]

Ya good point, IF i go OSB i wont cut them in half.

What about paint, whats the best way to paint OSB? What is a good paint? Any tricks i should know about?

 

[samert111]

You are looking at the wrong steel material. If you have a Menards close by then check with them on getting some Dura Panel steel liner. It's lighter weight and less expensive at around $60 per 100 SF I think. You order it by the foot at what length you want. Just add a couple inches for joint overlap.

I used 10' 2" long panels and hung them by myself using the scaffolding seen in the 1st photo. 15 ft ceiling.

DirtRoad, I just realized you are only 15 miles from me if you want to stop over to see what the Dura Panel steel ceiling looks like. I've also got several suggestions I did for sealing up the air leaks in the building.

Installing.

Finished product.

 

[DirtRoad]

You are looking at the wrong steel material. If you have a Menards close by then check with them on getting some Dura Panel steel liner. It's lighter weight and less expensive at around $60 per 100 SF I think. You order it by the foot at what length you want. Just add a couple inches for joint overlap.

I used 10' 2" long panels and hung them by myself using the scaffolding seen in the 1st photo. 15 ft ceiling.

DirtRoad, I just realized you are only 15 miles from me if you want to stop over to see what the Dura Panel steel ceiling looks like. I've also got several suggestions I did for sealing up the air leaks in the building.

Installing.

Finished product.

Talk about a small world! That is so awesome!

I would LOVE to check out your setup in person.

So they are just called Dura panel steel liner?

 

[Falcon67]

The common paint deal for OSB seems to be oil based primer followed with latex paint.

Like that ceiling panel stuff - looks good.

 

[samert111]

Talk about a small world! That is so awesome!

I would LOVE to check out your setup in person.

So they are just called Dura panel steel liner?

Just sent you a PM if you want to stop by tomorrow.

Yes, it's called Dura Panel made by Midwest Manufacturing. Below is a link to the Alpine Menards and their current price. Looks like it's $72 per 100 sq ft now.

http://www.menards.com/main/building-materials/post-frame-materials/panels/durapanel/p-1808046.htm

 

[DirtRoad]

This is what im working with.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2675832#post2675832

 

[samert111]

This is what im working with.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2675832#post2675832

Nice start but I don't see any venting baffles in your truss bays out to the eaves for air flow up into the crawl space and it looks like you may have closed off the openings with your insulation. If so this will cause problems with ice daming in the winter.

 

[NUTTSGT]

The common paint deal for OSB seems to be oil based primer followed with latex paint.

Like that ceiling panel stuff - looks good.

I agree with Chris on both comments. The metal panels do look good. I was thinking it was called EZ liner but, yes, the Menard's stuff is DuraLiner.

I used Kilz oil based primer on my OSB, giving it two coats it covered nicely. So nice I left it like it was and found out later it was a mistake. I'm currently correctly that problem putting a coat of Kilz Pro-X 170 semi-gloss paint on it.

 

[lowell66dart]

Sure wish we could get Dura Liner down here. All my quotes on 29 guage metal are $2 a linear foot which works out to $200 a square. I asked everone I called about seconds and no such thing down here

 

[OccupantRJ]

Sure wish we could get Dura Liner down here. All my quotes on 29 guage metal are $2 a linear foot which works out to $200 a square. I asked everone I called about seconds and no such thing down here

Since the metal covers 3 feet wide, at $2 a linear foot, that works out to 67 cents a square foot, which would work out to $67 a square, wouldn't it?

 

[DirtRoad]

Nice start but I don't see any venting baffles in your truss bays out to the eaves for air flow up into the crawl space and it looks like you may have closed off the openings with your insulation. If so this will cause problems with ice daming in the winter.

I didnt close them off at all. The insulation runs up to the header, its open behind the header. Its wide open from the soffits into crawl space.

I thought those baffles were only if you might block the soffits from the crawl space? Should i still use them? I mean its wide open from the soffits into the crawl space.

I will get some pics, hard to explain.

 

[DirtRoad]

I agree with Chris on both comments. The metal panels do look good. I was thinking it was called EZ liner but, yes, the Menard's stuff is DuraLiner.

I used Kilz oil based primer on my OSB, giving it two coats it covered nicely. So nice I left it like it was and found out later it was a mistake. I'm currently correctly that problem putting a coat of Kilz Pro-X 170 semi-gloss paint on it.

Why was it a mistake? What happened?

 

[samert111]

I didnt close them off at all. The insulation runs up to the header, its open behind the header. Its wide open from the soffits into crawl space.

I thought those baffles were only if you might block the soffits from the crawl space? Should i still use them? I mean its wide open from the soffits into the crawl space.

I will get some pics, hard to explain.

OK that's good. However, looks like you only have R-13 up there now. If you want to blow in some more later for more R-value then you will have to close off the eves with something to keep the blown insulation from falling out into the soffits and also put in the baffles Beter to do it now then have to crawl out there once the ceiling is up to put the baffles and insulation dams in.

Also, you asked about putting up some plastic as a vapor barrier. You already have that with the Kraft facing on your insulation so you don't want to put the plastic up also. Personally, I would not mess with the plastic. Buildings need to breath some and anymore everyone wants to make everything air tight. Use kraft faced insulation and be done with it in my opinion. At some point we have to accept that these are just pole buildings and not a stick built shop.