Ceiling panel identification

[Toxicscrew]

I toured a building today and ran across something I hadn't seen before. Hoping someone here can help.

The ceiling was covered in these 4 x 8 sheets of material, about 3/16" thick. Looked like hardboard, but was much more rigid and the water infiltrating the space had nearly zero effect on it. Kind of looked like it had fiberglass impregnated into it. Check out the photos to see it. Basically wanting to hear it's not asbestos, did a search and didn't find anything about that being made into sheet material.

 

[The Cobbler]

how old do you think it is? could very well be asbestos

 

[Big Bad Dad]

Looks like it very well could be ASB. Maybe a form of Transite panel? What is the plan for the building? Better get it tested by a certified lab.

 

[slip knot]

I'm thinking Transite also. get it tested.

 

[Rock knocker]

We can't tell wether it's asbestos or not

 

[Toxicscrew]

Building use would be shop space mostly, possible portion of it built out for commercial use, i.e. office/retail

I'd say they've been up there easily 30 years, most likely more. City records online don't have a year built. It's had a couple of renovations in the past though.

 

[alberto]

You are doing the right thing by asking about it, but it is impossible to tell if it has asbestos just on pictures alone (well, unless someone recognizes the exact same material somehow and even then....)

If you are looking to lease/buy and the landlord/owner knows about it, they are required to disclose it, so you might ask them to start if you have not.

Whether you are buying or leasing, for budgeting purposes, if it is anything older than say, 25 years, I would default to assuming it is asbestos containing and that it needs to be properly removed (or if you already own it and just now found out about it) until tested otherwise.

If you are going to remove it, cut it, etc., get it tested. If it is "friable" (it crumbles when you handle it, or it is falling apart or dusting), test it, even if you are not going to mess with it. If it is friable asbestos, you'll want to remove it (or have the landlord remove it if you are leasing) regardless of whether you are going to mess with it.

If it turns out to be asbestos, you will need a reputable asbestos abatement firm (they will have to have EPA certifications, etc.); once removed it is a hazardous waste that needs to be disposed of in very specific ways and the removal process also needs to be done in specific ways.

Good luck with it. Hopefully, my comments don't alarm you too much. Plenty of buildings have asbestos in them and people aren't falling like flies. It's a solvable problem. It probably won't be cheap, but it need not be a deal killer either; it will depend on the specifics.

 

[59chief]

Might try lighting a piece of it on fire......not in place of course!

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Looks exactly like Transite I've had removed in the past. Semi-smooth on the exposed side & that "waffle" pattern on the other. I'm also on board with having it tested.

Tommy

 

[404]

Unless there is money that needs spending why not leave it alone?

A small piece makes a great insulating surface to do soldering on if if is asbestos.

Don't spend a life time in a ship yard installing boiler lagging in an unventilated space and a heart attack will get ya first.

 

[Toxicscrew]

It's a court ordered sale, as-is, nothing to be done to the place.

Ceilings are 14' high or so, the panels appear to be in good shape (non-friable). Will do more checking, but thinking since they do not need to be modified/disturbed that encapsulation might be allowable (and best route). Am I correct in my reading various sources that it is preferred to leave it alone if at all possible?

Attached is a picture of the space, that's showing less than a 1/4 of the building interior.

 

[The Cobbler]

It's a court ordered sale, as-is, nothing to be done to the place.

....Am I correct in my reading various sources that it is preferred to leave it alone if at all possible?
.

that may be the scenario now , but down the road who says the rules wont change and get tougher?
I would check with an abatement company in your area and get a price on removal, and base your price on that.
You may even be able to remove it on your own if it is considered non friable(which I'm sure it is)
case in point, I remove asbestos tile ( vat) which has a very low percentage of asbestos . as long as we manually scrape it up and don't use a machine, it is a class 1 removal. no mask or suit required , however it needs to be bagged in asbestos bags and disposed of according to guidelines which more than doubles the cost of disposal. The landfill doesn't have to ask if I have asbestos waste, it is my obligation to notify them. are people dumping asbestos without knowing or telling them? absolutely.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the panels test positive and they are already as visually damaged/disturbed/decaying as they look, you pretty much HAVE to abate them.

Tommy

 

[Lassen Forge]

If it's asbestos-containing material, non-friable and you plan on renting part of the building or having an employee or employees in it, you'll either have to insure it's encapsulation and notify every tenant or employee, every year, about the asbestos in the building. Or... remove it. If it's decaying or otherwise friable, then yes, you have to remove it. Even if it's in good shape, I'd be rid of the stuff. The initial removal and disposal will be more than taking it to the dump, but still, it's one headache and lawsuit you'll then never have to worry about.

Where I used to work our old buildings looked like corrugated metal, but turned out to be compressed asbestos siding (popular in the 30's)... they had about 20 coats of paint on them (well-encapsulated), and in use today, no problems.

If you think that's bad, try one of those cool flocked ceilings that were popular in homes in the 1960's and 70's... Not only were they asbestos, but you touch it, you got a faceful. Good times!

 

[Toxicscrew]

From what I've read on the EPA site, you both are correct. If it's damaged/disentegrating or otherwise friable it has to go or be encapsulated. If it's in good shape they say to leave it alone (even tell homeowners this).

That being said, for the portion to be renovated, removal does seem the best course. Will have to discuss with remediation company and architect about the best course.

 

[MrGee]

Google "fibrous (or fibre) cement sheet" contains asbestos if that is the same stuff. Was used for a lot of different building material ceiling, walls.

Only know what I briefly read.

Good luck hope it is not this.

 

[RivennHewn]

I'd think the best course of action would be to get a bid from an abatement contractor, then factor that into your offering price.

Looks like a lot of potential for a great space!

 

[Toxicscrew]

Decided to pass on the building at this time. It's in a bit of a bidding war.

Kind of bummed though, it was a workshop for the late Bob Cassilly, the creator of the world famous City Museum. There's tons of pieces from his concrete casting company and other miscellaneous materials all over the place. But the family is trying to keep that stuff out of the sale, looks like a big legal battle would come after a successful bid. Would rather use funds to build a space out.

 

[zxttfan]

Cassilly had some wild stuff. It sounds like you made the right choice in passing on it. It's not like STL is short on abandoned and run down buildings just north of downtown. Was it in the area where they are planning the new stadium?

 

[Toxicscrew]

It's by Lafayette Square in the Gate District. A rather nice location. If one of the two parties that are bidding on it gets it, it should have a pretty good future.