Ceiling Sprinkler vs. Fan/light

[89MustangGX]

Looks like it's lots of fan installs for me this season- between re-doing the four in my house and now my girlfriend wants fans installed in the two bedrooms in her townhouse.

She has a 2-bedroom townhouse with can lights installed in the ceiling front of each bedroom door. She wants to add ceiling fans with lights in the center of each bedroom (no current light installed in that location). There is attic access, so should be no problem fishing in the wall and running to the center of the room. There is a fire sprinkler system installed in these townhouses. They are not the older kind that look like lawn sprinklers and hang down below the ceiling, they are inside the ceiling and have a pop-off cover over them, so all you see is the flat cover- if that makes a difference. I have not been in the attic yet to see what the system really looks like or how much stuff is up there for it. I am not familiar with these systems at all.

My question, what is the minimum distance, if any, that I must stay away from the sprinkler heads for these installs? Do I need to stay away from any of the plumbing or anything else?

Thanks,

Adam

 

[Mustang51js]

I don't think there is any distance for those,because you have other problems if the sprinkler is going off. If you have smoke alarms in the ceiling you should try and be at least 3 feet away from them if possible.

 

[89MustangGX]

I don't think there is any distance for those,because you have other problems if the sprinkler is going off. If you have smoke alarms in the ceiling you should try and be at least 3 feet away from them if possible.

I was thinking the exact same thing, and that's great news. I didn't want to end up in some weird situation with a fan that had to be off in the corner or something.

Normally I see a barrage of replies to a question and I go in feeling pretty confident, especially with all of the Pros we have on here. I would hate to create more work for myself if I had to tear it all out and fix it when she goes to sell her place or worse if they have some type of yearly inspection as part of the management or something like that. Can I just get some more agreement with us that I am ok?

Thanks again!

Adam

 

[rsanter]

If it was me I would prefer to have the electrical box at least a foot from the sprinkler

Bob

 

[89MustangGX]

Thanks guys- I'm going to get up in the attic and take a look and just do what makes sense. I don't think the sprinklers are dead center in the room- which is where I would prefer the fans be, so I will start with that idea and work out from there figuring out where they should go.

Adam

 

[LS6 Tommy]

IDK if the code is the same for residential setups, but IIRC the minimum clearance for stored obstructions below a sprinkler is 18". I don't know if a ceiling fan would be considered an obstruction.

Tommy

 

[89MustangGX]

IDK if the code is the same for residential setups, but IIRC the minimum clearance for stored obstructions below a sprinkler is 18". I don't know if a ceiling fan would be considered an obstruction.

Tommy

I wouldn't think it would be considered "stored," that seems more like it would refer to boxes and things in a warehouse type setup.

Do you know if there is any distance horizontally a light needs to be from a sprinkler?

Adam

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I wouldn't think it would be considered "stored," that seems more like it would refer to boxes and things in a warehouse type setup.

Do you know if there is any distance horizontally a light needs to be from a sprinkler?

Adam

Sorry. I didn't give a complete answer. I just found my notes. The residential code requires 18" vertical clearance in a horizontal plane and 3' horizontally from ceiling fans and lights.

Tommy

 

[89MustangGX]

Sorry. I didn't give a complete answer. I just found my notes. The residential code requires 18" vertical clearance in a horizontal plane and 3' horizontally from ceiling fans and lights.

Tommy

That's farther than I thought. Actually, that might change things. Will have to give it some real thought about placement now.

Thanks for the help.

Adam

 

[justsam]

My home is in Sonoma county, CA, built in 2006. Both the main home and the guest home have sprinklers in the ceilings with pop off caps. The attached garage is also covered.

Not sure when or what codes were applicable, but I do have fans that are mounted less than 3 feet from the sprinkler head. There are also can lights at less than 3 feet. It is a custom home that has passed more than one inspection, as well as obtaining COO.

I certainly am no expert, as many are here, but is an example of one.

FYI the sprinkler head is always under pressure, and the head has a low temp solder that melts and activates. Do not get a heat source near the sprinkler head!

 

[Richard Cranium]

go and speak with the powers to be and check what the codes say about your location, I would hate to put one up and then when she goes to move to have to replace the ceiling or patch up a large hole

 

[WhiskeyTangoFox]

Sprinkler fitter here. I can help out!


Inspectors don't catch everything. Even in the fire protection field. The code book keeps getting bigger and bigger. This whole surface mounted obstructions (weather it be lights, a fan, an exit light near a door) and sprinkler head spacing is an on going battle. It's one of my pet peeves while working actually so picture my surprise when I read this post. Haha

Justsam- From what I read from your post you have the type of head we call concealed sprinklers. All you see is a white plate against the ceiling (please tell me you've never painted those cover plates lol). There are solder joints in that plate and the solder melts at 135°(Thus if you paint them, they will NOT drop off like intended) The plate drops off and exposes the sprinkler head and the deflector drops down below the ceiling. The actual sprinkler head fuses at 155°. The water exits a hole then and then pushes up against the sprinkler heads deflector. That forms the spray pattern (umbrella shaped) of the water.


The 3 foot rule is a general rule that should be followed to be safe per NFPA 13r (national fire protection association 13 residential AKA the sprinkler bible)

The actual code for it goes more into specifics as to exact spacing and stuff. (Amount of obstruction hanging from ceiling vs. how far down the sprinkler head deflector is below the ceiling) but with the use of the concealed style you're pretty much limited by using the 3 foot rule to be safe because the deflector only hangs down so little.


Link to code in PDF form - http://pozhproekt.ru/nsis/nfpa/NFPA13R-2007.pdf
Page 18 - 6.8.1.5.3.2

There is a table on the right hand side and this is only for pendant style heads (ones that are in ceilings) sidewall heads have a different code as well as upright heads (mainly used in attics and rooms with no ceilings)


Any more questions please ask. Also, here is a link of a concealed head fusing. The water exits at 2:28/2:29 minute mark

I'm posting on mobile device so I hope the link works.


Edit - and when the obstruction isn't moving and the sprinkler has to be In that exact location due to distance and or spacing from walls we can use different kinds of heads to drop the deflector down farther so we can remain in that spot. No one likes these kinds because they are ugly though. Click on link and it's the picture on the right hand side titled essa chrome http://www.swiftfireprotection.com/Catalog/Escutcheons/escutcheons.html

And if you think inspectors know it all read this - they even miss stuff, but it eventually gets caught. In my mind this is a bad obstruction and I'm glad the light was removed. http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/commercial-fire-codes/4425-sprinkler-obstruction.html

 

[89MustangGX]

Thanks for the replies guys.

These sprinklers are the concealed style.

I ended up looking over the rest of the house and found that the placement vs. light fixtures and smoke detectors, etc. varied quite a bit. One light fixture was within about 8" of a sprinkler, others were clear across the room.

With that in mind, I went ahead and installed the fans- kept them about a foot away. I figured, as was mentioned earlier, if other original, pre-existing items passed multiple inspections- this should be ok too.

I just saw the last post with detailed code info. I'm not sure the existing original installation meets that code. My install matches the original as best I can tell and I feel good about it. Too late to go back now! I guess if it ever came down to an inspection issue, I could just install a can light instead or even just remove the fan and put a blank cover over top of it.

Thanks again,

Adam