Cement bag retaining wall

[nonhog]

Anybody done it ? seen it ? where you stack bags and water them down to harden . Seems like it may be brittle ?
The bags deteriorate after so many months or you can pull them off .
sounds interesting but leary about trying it w/o some pictures .

 

[CraigFL]

Someone did that here about 5 years ago. I haven't been by to look at it since. The bags rotted away and it looked like nice rugged, uniform stones. If I get ambitious, I'll take a picture for you....

 

[engnerdan]

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/environment/images/heritage/4302672a.jpg

More Pictures

 

[carguy123]

The More Pictures wouldn't open for me but the first one did.

That doesn't look half bad, but how do you ensure you get the whole thing wet enough to harden all the way thru?

 

[engnerdan]

Try now I updated the link, or try

http://www.sciopackaging.com/general.htm

 

[nonhog]

The More Pictures wouldn't open for me but the first one did.

That doesn't look half bad, but how do you ensure you get the whole thing wet enough to harden all the way thru?

X2 I don't see heavy use but I have kids and they will crawl and climb etc.
I would hate to see them crumble as they age .

That site looks good . I'll have to study that , thanks engnerdan !

 

[hell_fish_65]

After a few rains they will harden all the way. We just stacked them and left them and let nature do the work.

 

[Tscott]

When I was building a pole barn we had a load of concrete bags in the bed the truck for the piers. Well long story short, about 4 of them got wet and within a day they were set up like a rock. I still have one of them in my scrap stone pile and I'll be damned if I can break the darn thing. I have driven over with the tractor, crunched with the loader and on and on. The only thing gonna break that sack shaped rock is a good wallop with a sledge.

Tom

 

[kbs2244]

All the pre-mixed bags of concrete have seen lately have a poly liner so the bags will not soak up water while in storage.
If you plan to use those bags, you will have to poak holes in them to let the water in.
Or you could transfer it into burlap bags. But that sounds like a lot of work.

 

[hell_fish_65]

All the pre-mixed bags of concrete have seen lately have a poly liner so the bags will not soak up water while in storage.
If you plan to use those bags, you will have to poak holes in them to let the water in.
Or you could transfer it into burlap bags. But that sounds like a lot of work.

That liner is very thin and doesn't safeguard against anything heavier than morning dew.

 

[Tman]

That liner is very thin and doesn't safeguard against anything heavier than morning dew.

So you just used Sak-crete then? How easy did the bags disappear??

 

[Northstar9126]

I have a couple of bags of cement in one of my garages that I never used (over bought). They have the plastic liner. After a couple of years they are now rock hard.

 

[kbs2244]

I have seen damaged bags get hard pretty fast
But I have also seen flat bed semis with pallets of Sak-Crete rolling down the road in the rain. I doubt any savy customer would accept delivery if they were not sure the bags wouldn't harden while waiting to be bought.
But I agree with the idea. Just dry stack them and wait. The paper bags will rot and tear off in the wind and rain. (That might be a good job to keep the kids busy the second year. "Go peel the bags." Kind of like peeling sun burn.) But if you punch a few holes in the bags after they are in place, you won't have to wait as long.

 

[hell_fish_65]

I don't remember how long it took for the bag to rot. Not too long. Texas sun has a way of eating things.

 

[warrent]

On a road that I drive to work they used the bag concrete for a retaining walls over the culvert to the driveway. First couple of years looked okay after the bags disappeared. Ten year later most of them have been replaced with rock or concrete. Problem here is the moisture gets into the cracks, freezes, crumbles the big chunks and after a while all you have is a loose pile of cement.

warren

 

[Tman]

I am thinking you can run rebar down through the bags even......it is like desert here but a bag will go hard pretty easy

 

[555]

When we lived in Mesquite, TX, the city used stacked cement bags to build retaining walls beneath a bridge near our house. I asked one of the city workers about driving rebar and he said they didn't think it was necessary due to the weight of the bags. It took about a year for paper to rot and left a nice looking structure.

555

 

[mikeceli]

Meth-Heads stole the first few layers, of the cement-bag retaining wall(at a rental I own). Otherwise, it's looking good after maybe 30 years.

 

[dreamingmuscle]

I am thinking you can run rebar down through the bags even......it is like desert here but a bag will go hard pretty easy

I think that would accomplish two things. One is reinforcement Second it would break the paper between the bags letting the concrete mix sticking it all together.

Glen
________
og kush

 

[nonhog]

Bringing up an oldie. I ended up going with broken concrete for my retaining wall but am once again interested in this idea as it would be so much easier
in the one area I am considering.

Anybody in the Pacific Northwest do this? Seattle/Portland ish?
Pictures? glad you did it?

 

[Mudbone]

As others have pointed out, yes this idea works. For those concerned about breaking the paper bags. This is not a problem. The concrete will set up way before the bags even begin to rot.

As far as actually building the wall, I don't think you can build a perfectly vertical wall this way. I think each course needs to be stepped back from the previous one. Which means that you will need to back fill, (and tamp), as you go. At the very least you will want to do a running bond with the bags. You can allow the ends of the wall to taper in as you go up. The other option would be to use a flemish bond where every other bag is turned 90 degrees so the narrow end is facing out. This would help tie the wall back into the dirt behind it

The rebar sounds like a good idea. I would sharpen the end of each piece and drive them in about 3 or 4 courses at a time. You can overlap which courses you tie together and it will make it really strong. IE drive rebar through courses 1 through 4. Then lay two more courses and drive rebar through courses 6 to 3, in between the first set of rebar. Two more courses and drive rebar through course 8 to 5 above the original set of rebar. Keep in mind that if you do this you will need some serious equipment to tear it down.

Quikrete actually makes a product for this called RIP RAP.

 

[1320stang]

My coworker did this at his old house on a lake, he was losing shoreline and did this to prevent it, worked great.

 

[malibu101]

Meth-Heads stole the first few layers, of the cement-bag retaining wall(at a rental I own). Otherwise, it's looking good after maybe 30 years.

Seriously- Do you know why?

I understand them stealing anything for the next high
BUT
What kind of scrap value is there in some chunks of concrete?
Why would anybody want it?

Maybe they were just high and didn't know what they were doing.

 

[kartracer23]

When I worked @ Charleston Scuba, we use to take students to a shipwreck called the Fredrick W. Day. It was a schooner that sank in 1914 filled with bags of cement. That's all that's left-cement shaped like bags in the shape of a ship.

Frederick W. Day

Described by Scuba Diving magazine as a "beginner-friendly site," the Frederick W. Day sank in 1914 with a hold stuffed with bags of cement. The result was the creation of a very solid 200-foot-long reef-wreck. Sitting off Charleston, the Frederick W. Day's top is in 40 feet of water, while the base rests at 54 feet.


*I know that doesn't help, but the bags have been sitting on the ocean floor for close to 100 years & are still in perfect condition.

 

[Mudbone]

*I know that doesn't help, but the bags have been sitting on the ocean floor for close to 100 years & are still in perfect condition.

That's because Meth Heads don't scuba dive.

 

[Falcon67]

I have a couple of bags of cement in one of my garages that I never used (over bought). They have the plastic liner. After a couple of years they are now rock hard.

LOL - it's so dry here I had a bag break open and I just poured it in an open cardboard box and covered it with an old towel. I used it about 6 months later - still nice and powdery. It sat in the house garage by the big door. I can store bags in the shed for a year without any changes.

 

[was2]

Dallas area school district here in Texas. We have a large retaining wall done with bags and rebar for years now. Private club I am in just did a wall along their creek property. Laborers down in the creek and summer heat had piles of pre-cut rebar and three pound hammers. Stack the sack and drive two bars through it down into the layer(s) below. That stops movement and makes holes in the bag. No one wants to steal a bag with two holes in it. The rebar is hammered in enough to make removal real work. Thieves don't do real work.

The holes poked by rebar guarantee moisture infiltration will set the concrete over time. Rain speeds it up. We expect it to last years. Had plans approved for use by local flood plain administration and city. Pretty common technique now and was our least expensive option.

 

[EOC_Jason]

My neighbor did this, they just put out the bags and when it rained I guess they soaked the water in, they were also in a low area where runoff flows against them. I guess I would recommend hosing them down unless you are expecting a downpour. It took maybe a year or so for the bags to deteriorate away completely but you are left with what looks like a block of concrete in the shape of the bag... lol.

 

[MrMitch]

Order yourself a batch of Hessian Sandbags, I have see the following method used time and again with some good quality results.

Make sure the sacks are reasonably full and laid well, packing the bags in a tight flemish bond looks fantstic!

Dont worry about watering the bags, concrete will set without a soaking...

See:

http://www.coppard-groundworks.com/culvert-headwalls.html

 

[londonsteve]

I had 10 ton of cement in bags left in the open air on a site in New york and due to a labour dispute we were not allowed on site for 5 months. When we did get there the bags had been left open to the elements and were rock hard, but they still came apart very easily.
I think it would be better to poke lengths of rebar through the bags to tie them together. And maybe some loose cement at joints to grout it together.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Order yourself a batch of Hessian Sandbags, I have see the following method used time and again with some good quality results.

Make sure the sacks are reasonably full and laid well, packing the bags in a tight flemish bond looks fantstic!

Dont worry about watering the bags, concrete will set without a soaking...

See:

http://www.coppard-groundworks.com/culvert-headwalls.html

I remember seeing sandbags filled around a culvert when I was in 6th grade. I always thought it looked neat. This thread brings back memories of my youth.

 

[londonsteve]

Is it cost effective surely mxing the cement with ballast will make it cheaper and stronger.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Yeah but for that many bags you would need an industrial cement mixer, which for most means renting... Not to mention the additional time required to make forms, mix each batch, etc, etc...

Bags you can just "set it, and forget it".... Nature does the rest...

 

[Kny21]

How do the bags stay secured together if theres paper bag material separating each block?

Seems you're just left with a heavy boulder wall, that's not well bonded. No?

 

[7th Kahuna]

How do the bags stay secured together if theres paper bag material separating each block?

Seems you're just left with a heavy boulder wall, that's not well bonded. No?

In my limited experience, it is just that, a bolder wall, which is why it must be built to lean into the slope. If you are in a damp climate I am not sure the rebar would be a good idea unless the wall were temporary as the rebar would rust and could in theory begin to tear the wall apart. The only other note I would have would be to use decent material, not the cheap fence post mix. I had a neighbor dump those into the post holes dry and water them. Not one was ultimately strong enough to secure the post. They all cracked and fell apart. Maybe it was just that batch but it seems like I have seen similar material fail elsewhere when it was installed 'dry'.

 

[redbeard]

What's everyones thoughts on a firepit in the back of my property? Just 5-6 foot diameter circle. 2-3 stacks high just to use so the fire doesn't kill grass around it?

 

[nonhog]

What's everyones thoughts on a firepit in the back of my property? Just 5-6 foot diameter circle. 2-3 stacks high just to use so the fire doesn't kill grass around it?

Using concrete? I'd say no its going to crack that one time the fire is too hot.
Get bricks that are for ovens, BBQ's etc.

 

[nonhog]

How do the bags stay secured together if theres paper bag material separating each block?

Seems you're just left with a heavy boulder wall, that's not well bonded. No?

They form an interlock. Done right it would need no bond.