Cement non-working fireplace floor

[branimal]

I've got an old non functioning fireplace here in Brooklyn NYC. I think it was used for coal heat a long time ago.

Anyway I'm leaving this fireplace exposed and I'm thinking of ways to seal off the fireplace floor and eventually dress it up a little.

Can I cement the floor with Portland cement? I've got a bag left over from a shower pan project. What would be the right cement to sand ratio?

 

[rlitman]

Masonry mortar is a portland cement mix. However, lime is used to soften it, so that it's not harder than the brick. Not just sand.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I've got an old non functioning fireplace here in Brooklyn NYC. I think it was used for coal heat a long time ago.

Anyway I'm leaving this fireplace exposed and I'm thinking of ways to seal off the fireplace floor and eventually dress it up a little.

Can I cement the floor with Portland cement? I've got a bag left over from a shower pan project. What would be the right cement to sand ratio?

Portland cement is just the binder portion used in mortar or concrete.
I'd mix with sand and gravel to make concrete.
Or mix with sand and make mortar for layimg brick.

 

[jimkinney]

I would just grab a couple of bags of premixed concrete at HD or Lowes. By the time you could gather sand and gravel and get it mixed right, you'd be done.

 

[firebirdparts]

So the answer is 2:1 sandortland for brick mortar, which is plasticky and assumes whatever shape you give it. You could consider concrete, which is 3:2:1 aggregate:sandortland. You could mix it a little thin and it might self-level enough to suit you. You can buy self-leveling material, but I don't guess you need to. That's a pretty small hole. What you want to concentrate on is making it look good.

So evidently when words in a ratio start with P, it makes the emoticons very happy.

 

[Uncle murph]

For what you’re doing,3to 1 with sand is more than adequate.Just don’t get carried away with the water,to much will ruin the mix.

 

[rburke65]

Go spend $6 on a premixed bag of concrete

 

[Hank11]

It might look really good with some old brick laid in the bottom. 2 parts sand, 1 part portland cement.

 

[branimal]

Thanks guys. I'll do 2:1 sandortland. I want to use up some of opened portland cement bag before it goes bad.

It might look really good with some old brick laid in the bottom. 2 parts sand, 1 part portland cement.

Hank, I like the brick idea. How could I cover the transition from brick to hardwood flooring?

My other option is to get a piece of stone cut for a fireplace hearth.

 

[Justind97]

Thanks guys. I'll do 2:1 sandortland. I want to use up some of opened portland cement bag before it goes bad.




Hank, I like the brick idea. How could I cover the transition from brick to hardwood flooring?

My other option is to get a piece of stone cut for a fireplace hearth.

The floor already looks lower. Install the brick. Who cares if it's a step up. Use a contour gauge to cut the hardwood to **** up if necessary.

 

[lilredex]

Be aware that there are two types of sand out there, very fine for brick laying (sand box) and concrete sand, much coarser. Cement comes in two general types, portland and masonry, for laying bricks.

In days gone by there was only portland and you would buy a bag of "plasticizer" to add when you wanted to lay bricks, that is all done for you now, ahead of time.

I'd also go with the 1:3 ratio.

If your cavity is not deep enough for full sized bricks, look for some that are half thickness, a sliced version for wall mounting.

When I have needed winter sand for the driveway I have found big box concrete sand is not as coarse as the brick yard stuff.

Go to a brick yard if you have one, they have all the products and knowledge you won't find at a big box store.

 

[Hank11]

If it looks wrong with whole bricks you can saw them or as suggested just above, find some brick veneer. I think old stuff will look better. As for the junction between brick and flooring, I'd use some caulk that matches the mortar. Kinda like you would in a tiled bathroom.

 

[wrenchguy]

Go spend $6 on a premixed bag of concrete

This, spike it up with some of that extra portland you got. It won't go bad if you store it right.

 

[yeldogt]

Typically you would not see a stone cut and fitted ... it was just not done.

I have seen them where a large rock/stone was used as the whole fireplace was built .... but, this would predate any type of fire bricks.

What are you going to do with the fireplace bricks? They are soft bricks -- but being inside you can use a Portland based product. With old bricks you typically want to use lime mortar w/o any Portland.

I would use the same material that you use to repoint the bricks -- it's not going to have any thermal shock and it will look better with it all matching. Just place it like a pad ... the gray will all match.

What are you going to do with the floor ? You could cut in a hearth -- making it all level. That way no trip hazard -- loss of space .. easy cleaning.

 

[branimal]

I think I'm going do the brick veneer as suggested above. Inexpensive and they make rustic looking ones to match the fireplace.

 

[yeldogt]

I think I'm going do the brick veneer as suggested above. Inexpensive and they make rustic looking ones to match the fireplace.

Nothing will look like or as nice as the old brick ....

Brick veneer (unless it's real 1/3 thick brick) ... is fake. DOn;t fool yourself thinking it will look better.

When was the last time you were fooled by any of the fake products -- inside or outside?

 

[branimal]

Nothing will look like or as nice as the old brick ....

Brick veneer (unless it's real 1/3 thick brick) ... is fake. DOn;t fool yourself thinking it will look better.

When was the last time you were fooled by any of the fake products -- inside or outside?

I’ll check the local masonry supply. Too bad I gave away boxes of noggin brick on Craigslist when I Demo’d this place.

 

[Hank11]

An angle grinder with a diamond wheel will help you cut the bricks. A tile saw might work too. Its messy but pretty easy.

You don't have that many to cut and if cutting to half thickness gets it where you want it, you get two brick slices from each brick. You can fit the front up with full pieces and then trim the back pieces to fit.

I'd go for just proud above the finished floor.

 

[branimal]

Went to a brickyard nearby and bought about $8 worth of bricks. They didn't have any used bricks. They did have some bricks with a dark face to them. Which I thought would compliment the burned bricks on the fireplace walls.

The bricks have a different color on the opposite side. A little lighter color.

Should I go with either of these. Or go find a brick yard with used bricks?

 

[yeldogt]

Mismatching never works ..... that's why I recommended cleaning it all up and repointing what you have -- using the same mortar for the firebox floor. You don't want to call attention to the floor. Same with a big mantel ... that's a working mans fireplace. Simple --

What's on the floor ... with limited space you can't have a traditional hearth. The goal I'm sure is to preserve an interesting item of the houses past w/o it being a problem.

 

[Jeepster04]

I dont like it.

You could mix up the cement/sand like you were talking and put black dye in it. Only thing, if you dont like it, it'll **** to get it back out. Maybe do a small test run then sit it down in there and see if you like it.

Those shallow fireplaces have always confused me. How did you have room to make a fire?

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

Nothing will look like or as nice as the old brick ....

Brick veneer (unless it's real 1/3 thick brick) ... is fake. DOn;t fool yourself thinking it will look better.

When was the last time you were fooled by any of the fake products -- inside or outside?

Have you seen or used thin (veneer) brick?

They are real brick not fake

 

[yeldogt]

Have you seen or used thin (veneer) brick?

They are real brick not fake

That's why I said the real 1/3 brick. And ........ have also used the thin firebrick when restoring a "working" fireplace (inside)

In fact -- I'm going to redo an outside landing this summer with the real (thin) brick as I don't have the height for full size ones.

 

[branimal]

Have you seen or used thin (veneer) brick?

They are real brick not fake

Do I find that at Masonry supply shops or big box stores?

Last brickyard I went to was pretty bare bones.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

Do I find that at Masonry supply shops or big box stores?

Last brickyard I went to was pretty bare bones.

Masonry suppliers

 

[Hank11]

Used building material supplier?
Someone else's building restoration?

 

[branimal]

Mismatching never works ..... that's why I recommended cleaning it all up and repointing what you have -- using the same mortar for the firebox floor. You don't want to call attention to the floor. Same with a big mantel ... that's a working mans fireplace. Simple --



What's on the floor ... with limited space you can't have a traditional hearth. The goal I'm sure is to preserve an interesting item of the houses past w/o it being a problem.

My plan was to seal the brick with a matte masonry sealer from Foundation Armor. I've used this stuff before on old brick and it works great.



As far as cleaning it all up, I might scrub the mortar joints with a wire brush. But my plan wasn't to give it a thorough cleaning. I don't want to repoint it. I like the rough look it has right now. I realize the floors mortar joint's won't match the walls. But I can live with that.

As far as the mantle, I’ve been working on a reclaimed wood mantle project. The wood was reclaimed from this building. 6”x5”x54”. It’s going to float on the brick wall. At least that’s the plan.

 

[branimal]

I might have a solution the color matching issue..... The current sunken fireplace floor has some bricks in it. If I could chisel those bricks out, I could replace them with my new bricks and lay the old bricks on top.

The only issue is, I think the smaller bricks in the back are actually whole bricks. And they are supporting the vertical portion of the firebox. Maybe I can grind and chisel them out.

Not sure.

 

[rlitman]

I might have a solution the color matching issue..... The current sunken fireplace floor has some bricks in it. If I could chisel those bricks out, I could replace them with my new bricks and lay the old bricks on top.

The only issue is, I think the smaller bricks in the back are actually whole bricks. And they are supporting the vertical portion of the firebox. Maybe I can grind and chisel them out.

Not sure.

Instead of that, why not look around on CL for someone giving away old bricks?

 

[branimal]

Instead of that, why not look around on CL for someone giving away old bricks?

Been coming up empty with CL. Will keep trying.

 

[rlitman]

Been coming up empty with CL. Will keep trying.

Fair enough. CL isn't a shopping experience. It's more of an adventure.
I do see bricks listed regularly, but it's not a reliable place when you're on a timeline.

Anyway, even when you color match the bricks, the mortar will look different. There's no way to achieve perfection here. Outdoors, the weather will hide that all eventually. Indoors, that can take some time.

How about not trying to match at all? Most fireplaces I see don't have brick floors. You could make a cardboard template of your floor, and have the yard cut a sandstone tread block to your dimensions, and have a one-piece floor that won't look out of place.

 

[yeldogt]

My plan was to seal the brick with a matte masonry sealer from Foundation Armor. I've used this stuff before on old brick and it works great.



As far as cleaning it all up, I might scrub the mortar joints with a wire brush. But my plan wasn't to give it a thorough cleaning. I don't want to repoint it. I like the rough look it has right now. I realize the floors mortar joint's won't match the walls. But I can live with that.

As far as the mantle, I’ve been working on a reclaimed wood mantle project. The wood was reclaimed from this building. 6”x5”x54”. It’s going to float on the brick wall. At least that’s the plan.

It's in rough shape .. that was originally covered. With the shallow box my guess it had a cast insert for burning coal. They would sit a bit proud of the face. Typical city setup where space was tight.

You don't want to pull out the old bricks on the floor ....


Would have given a good cleaning -- evaluated .. touched up. Guess you don't believe me -- the floors were often lime mortar .... they would do them every year over the brick. Although - with the insert that would have been untouched

 

[branimal]

Fair enough. CL isn't a shopping experience. It's more of an adventure.
I do see bricks listed regularly, but it's not a reliable place when you're on a timeline.

Anyway, even when you color match the bricks, the mortar will look different. There's no way to achieve perfection here. Outdoors, the weather will hide that all eventually. Indoors, that can take some time.

How about not trying to match at all? Most fireplaces I see don't have brick floors. You could make a cardboard template of your floor, and have the yard cut a sandstone tread block to your dimensions, and have a one-piece floor that won't look out of place.

I found some bricks this morning on CL. They are closer in color than the bricks I bought.

As far as getting the mortar to match, I could play around with portland, sand and lime mix and maybe even dye until I get a close enough enough match where someone's eye isn't drawn to it. Getting this project done doesn't hold up any other projects, so I have time to play around with it.

I like the sandstone block idea. It's how I originally envisioned the fireplace. Maybe a piece that runs the width of the fireplace about 5" deep and then insets into the fireplace itself. It does become a trip hazard though.

 

[branimal]

It's in rough shape .. that was originally covered. With the shallow box my guess it had a cast insert for burning coal. They would sit a bit proud of the face. Typical city setup where space was tight.

You don't want to pull out the old bricks on the floor ....


Would have given a good cleaning -- evaluated .. touched up. Guess you don't believe me -- the floors were often lime mortar .... they would do them every year over the brick. Although - with the insert that would have been untouched

Ha -I do believe you. You've certainly given me a lot of good advice. In fact I was about to seal it when you originally said to clean it up. I ended up going over the mortar joints with a wire brush. Got some of the loose stuff out. I kind of like the rustic charm it has. I did spray two coats of matte sealer on it yesterday. I might go with a 3rd today. That will prevent all the dusting that happens with these brick walls.

There are 3 of these fireplaces on each floor making a total of 9 in the building. I guess that's how people stayed warm until steam boiler technology came along.

On the roof there are 3 chimneys, and If I recall correctly 2/3 chimneys have three clay lined flues which would vent each of the fireplaces. The 3rd chimney got repurposed for an oil steam boiler at some point and only has one flue.

Here's a shot of the fireplace after 2 coats of sealer. I'm going to mount a mantle right above the the firebox header bricks (the bricks oriented vertically). The header bricks will be left exposed. Above the mantle I'm going to install a television.

 

[rlitman]

It's looking real nice. I agree with the "rustic charm".

 

[yeldogt]

In the city they used coal and the firebox sat proud -- out in the room a bit. Most of the time the only brick exposed was just around the opening.

 

[wrenchguy]

To me, That's common brick, never brushed off or washed when built.
It looks it was plastered over and never meant to be finish.
IMO, Its fine what your doing but a knowledgeable person would......