Central A/C unit

[cburnscrx]

Okay, here goes...

I am shopping for a central A/C unit to replace my 10 year old Lennox. The Lennox never really performed like I hoped, and truthfully, I am happy to replace it.

Here's what I know. It was a 1.5 ton unit, but should have been a 2 ton. Literally every bid has told us the original unit was undersized. My blower on my furnace can handle a 2 ton unit, so that's good. I am not going to replace the furnace at this time, because it's a rental. That being said, we were able to rent the unit because it was a newer house with low energy bills.

So here's my question...what am I looking for, given this limited information. Brands, features, ect. Any an all help is appreciated!

 

[pop pop]

Almost every major brand carries an inexpensive unit (bottom line) and intermediate unit (good buy usually) and a top of the line unit ( all the bells and whistles). All these will perform if installed correctly. Installed incorrectly, none of them will work. This is a site specific problem you'll need to work out locally. Make sure the duct work isn't the problem, or line set installation done poorly. There is no magic bullet. I prefer Carrier, mid grade. Lennox is a good unit. There are others. Just don't compare someone's low line with another's delux unit.

 

[Interex]

Just stay away from Goodman/Amana and you'll be fine.

 

[cburnscrx]

All fair points, I guess my question would be what exactly makes one unit better than the other. Are there features I am looking for... I understand SEER, but other than that?

 

[Jsf721]

I am happy with my Reehm.

 

[brewchief]

What model Lennox was it? Has it failed or just replacing do to poor performance?

Install is key, a top of the line unit improperly installed will have a shorter life and perform poorly over that life compared to a properly installed low end or "builder grade" unit.

If switching to r410a then the condensing unit, indoor coil and lineset should all be replaced, the lineset can be flushed if it cannot be replaced but replacement is preferred.

The condenser and indoor coil need to be matched to each other, an AHRI sheet will prove the match and indicate what the SEER rating should be, it's possible to get a higher rating then advertised out of some units, last week I installed a 13 SEER unit that matched up as 15 SEER.

A proper install will include purgeing the lines with nitrogen when brazing and pulling a vacuum below 500 microns.

Has the currant unit had a proper cleaning and tuneup to ensure it is working to it's best ability?

 

[jhelrey]

It's a rental unit... Wait until it fails, then upgrade.

I see tenants all of the time running AC in the winter and freezing the units up, etc.

 

[brihvac]

Just stay away from Goodman/Amana and you'll be fine.

Why?

 

[cburnscrx]

What model Lennox was it? Has it failed or just replacing do to poor performance?

Install is key, a top of the line unit improperly installed will have a shorter life and perform poorly over that life compared to a properly installed low end or "builder grade" unit.

Has the current unit had a proper cleaning and tuneup to ensure it is working to it's best ability?

We are just replacing due to poor performance. It never performed very well, even when we first built the house and it was brand new...the furnace, perfectly fine. We've had to professionally tuned up up the last two years, but didn't bother this year as we planned to replace it.

 

[cburnscrx]

It's a rental unit... Wait until it fails, then upgrade.

I see tenants all of the time running AC in the winter and freezing the units up, etc.

This "rental" is different than most rentals. All stainless steel appliances, new ceramic tile in the kitchen, brand new carpeting, fresh paint, washer and dryer included. It's an executive rental, not a low end rental, so having A/C that works 100% is important. Besides that, the rental profit vs. what we pay our mortgage company has made replacing the A/C unit free.

 

[Interex]

Why?

I do a lot of work with guys in the industry and the feedback is always the same - they're cheap but you get what you pay for.

So far, I've had to replace a cap and condenser coil in my 3-ton Goodman heat pump and it's only 3 years old.

 

[Falcon67]

Just stay away from Goodman/Amana and you'll be fine.

Local techs like Goodman, hate Trane and Lennox. So there. At least with Goodman if you need a part, you can likely get it at a supply house. The other big brands have proprietary parts that will cost you out the azz. We're looking to replace and I'd go with another Goodman, personally.

 

[Mike007]

Just stay away from Goodman/Amana and you'll be fine.

And anything made by York.

 

[brihvac]

I do a lot of work with guys in the industry and the feedback is always the same - they're cheap but you get what you pay for.

So far, I've had to replace a cap and condenser coil in my 3-ton Goodman heat pump and it's only 3 years old.

Been doing HVAC for a long time and I have never had any issues with Goodman that I have not had with any other brand. As a matter of fact, they are the only company that offers a lifetime compressor warranty, and 10 year parts warranty on 14 seer and above. On the higher seer models, if the compressor goes within the first 10 years, they will replace the entire unit.
10 years ago I would have agreed with you. However, they have come a long way.

 

[brihvac]

Local techs like Goodman, hate Trane and Lennox. So there. At least with Goodman if you need a part, you can likely get it at a supply house. The other big brands have proprietary parts that will cost you out the azz. We're looking to replace and I'd go with another Goodman, personally.

Boy, you can say that again. Especially Trane. A friend of mine has a Trane in his house and the module for the variable speed fan went. Trane made me buy the entire motor and module. The motor was fine, but I had to get both. Was over $300 my cost. Ridiculous.

 

[Mike007]

Been doing HVAC for a long time and I have never had any issues with Goodman that I have not had with any other brand. As a matter of fact, they are the only company that offers a lifetime compressor warranty, and 10 year parts warranty on 14 seer and above. On the higher seer models, if the compressor goes within the first 10 years, they will replace the entire unit.
10 years ago I would have agreed with you. However, they have come a long way.

Goodman has become a lot better, but the price is now in-line with the rest of the industry too. It is no longer dirt cheap which I guess is a good thing.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Just stay away from Goodman/Amana and you'll be fine.

Its been years since Ive had any issues with any of the goodman units Ive installed.
I don't do many installs anymore but when I do I usually install Rhuud/Weather king (spin off of Rheem),never had any problems with them and prices are reasonable.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Trane wreck!

 

[cburnscrx]

So it sounds like I should be much more concerned about installation than brand, though if parts are that expensive for certain manufacturers I would want to know that up front.

I recently bought a new fan motor and cap for the central air at my house (not the rental), and it was easy to get it from the supply house, not to mention easy to replace.

Should I stay away from Trane because of parts cost? I kind of get the impression people are recommending that.

 

[brihvac]

So it sounds like I should be much more concerned about installation than brand, though if parts are that expensive for certain manufacturers I would want to know that up front.

I recently bought a new fan motor and cap for the central air at my house (not the rental), and it was easy to get it from the supply house, not to mention easy to replace.

Should I stay away from Trane because of parts cost? I kind of get the impression people are recommending that.

I would. York also. Not that they are bad units,they just tend to use a lot of proprietary parts

 

[Mike007]

I would. York also. Not that they are bad units,they just tend to use a lot of proprietary parts

I would disagree. I believe York is by far the worst product in the industry. I sold York for years with very few problems. Then Johnson Control bought them around 2007 and completely changed the line. After that I experience over 100% failure rate. I say over because Ive had more warranty issues then systems installed in that period. It's been a futile battle to keep the customers I sold post Johnson Controls York to happy. Without exaggeration, every single evap coil leaked. And now Ive had several replacement coils leaking. Just went on a call yesterday, 6 year old system. I replaced the evap coil at 2 years, the condenser coil at 4 years, and now the system has developed another leak in the evap coil. It's just futile.

 

[danski0224]

Just stay away from Goodman/Amana and you'll be fine.

The brands most readily available to DIY'ers and industry hacks. That should tell you something about the bad rap this equipment gets.

Goodman is the largest manufacturer of HVAC equipment in the USA.

Yes, they are low end units, but they will work fine if they are installed properly.

 

[Falcon67]

The brands most readily available to DIY'ers and industry hacks. That should tell you something about the bad rap this equipment gets.

Goodman is the largest manufacturer of HVAC equipment in the USA.

Yes, they are low end units, but they will work fine if they are installed properly.

The double edged sword effect. I could drive to Houston and for probably under $4K get the whole meal heat pump deal. I'm reasonably competent and would not have a problem installing the system pieces. The issue then comes to whether I could convince a local AC company to service it and finish the install (line hookups, purge, etc) and test to enable the warranty. Based on other DIY stuff I've seen, I can certainly understand the reluctance of pro AC'ers getting a bad feeling about a homeowner installation. The other side is $3000 "labor" for two guys to R&R a system in 8 hours or less is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[danski0224]

The other side is $3000 "labor" for two guys to R&R a system in 8 hours or less is a hard pill to swallow.

Actual number aside, it isn't just "labor".

From what I have read, residential HVAC companies don't pay very well in TX. Additionally, HVAC companies are resorting to "performance based pay" which can encourage unethical behavior (you need a new system instead of a minor repair). Check the "help wanted" ads in your area.

That "$3,000.00" has to cover the expenses incurred in operating a business and anything left over is "profit". The HVAC industry average is 3% (average means that some do better, some do worse).

Naturally, I'm sure that in whatever you do for a living, the rates are fair and no one would think you are overcharging...

 

[pop pop]

No one has recommended Carrier, so I will. Don't know if parts are available or not, but properly installed, I find them to be bullet proof. "O" service calls on the present unit in 8 years. "No parts" is cheaper than locally available, reasonably priced parts. Prior experience on several units over the years was similar. Service calls are well after it is "becoming worn out" after good service for many years. None ever for the first 10 years or so. [not talking about proper maintenance service, just parts replacement/breakdowns].