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Central Air Conditioner Brands

Rich M.

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Not sure if this is the year or not, but sooner or later, probably sooner than later, my HVAC system will have to be replaced. Currently I have a 3 ton Trane system that have worked well.

I know I cannot always used how it was built 22 years ago to gauge how systems are built today, but are they still good like some installers say or is there better products now out there.

Like all major appliance, I try to put in the time and do the research. What I am finding is the research is all over the place as how the AC units are rated, mainly by them. Sometime Trane and Carrier are near the top and in other articles they are in the middle. Couple Carrier articles listed them near the bottom. Hum!

Normally I try to see if the person writing the article is tied to a certain brand, which may make his comment bias or it could be he truly believes in this brand.

Anyway, I am looking for comments from members that had one brand or another installed and what are your thoughts.

Also what about brands like Amana or American Standard?

One local contractor who gets excellent reviews swears by Amana. I have not seen many Amana units through my community. The one neighbor that I did asked said it works fine.

One main opinion I am looking for is any brand that I should not even consider.
 
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American Locomotive

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From what I've seen and read from various HVAC techs:

Trane/American Standard is still near the top in terms of build quality and reliability, although they do have a couple of models that were proverbial lemons. Quality slowly sliding down since the IR merger.

Lennox: Just as high quality as Trane, if not more so. Parts availability can be an issue some times.

Rheem/Ruud: Generally fine, nothing too fancy.

Carriers: Hit or miss. Some are fine, some are terrible, generally feel I've seen seems to be that they are also on the decline. Other ICP brands like Heil are similar.

Goodman/Amana: Super hit or miss. Install quality can vary a lot, as just about any joe-blow off the street can purchase or install these systems. They offer some decent features, but build quality can be very lacking compared to higher-end systems. If you go Goodman, make sure you thoroughly vet the installer.

For minisplit systems, Fujitsu and Mitsubishi are basically the industry standard. I'd avoid LG based on my experience dealing with LG HVAC corporate.
 

Showkey

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It’s Back to the builder, good., better, best ......thing with just about every manufacturer.

https://www.lennox.com/products/heating-cooling/air-conditioners

Lennox for example (not fan) just example they have 12 models over three lines:

Signature series......... 4 models from 28 to 18.5 seer. Pricing $$$$ to $$$

Elite series .......5 models from 20 to 15.5 seer pricing $$$ to $$

Merit series 3 models from 17 to 13 seer pricing $

Then add accessories or add ons to increase the seer etc
Then add units built under different labels
Then add unit carrying significantly different warranty on the same units.
Then add builder only units
Then add regional models only sold in certain areas at various pricing.

A friend in Florida got into with Trane with warranty replacement for corrosion leaks on the evaporator 3 in 6 years........their answer was you should have purchased the GOLD series. Then the second and third go a round was no labor or refrig coverage.

Trane vs American Std: Trane makes 7 air conditioners that are identical in all but name to the 7 American Standard models. Additionally, Trane makes 2 models that American Standard does not make.

Goodman vs Amana .......Amana 10 year parts and labor
 
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nadogail

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I believe Daikin is good. If what I have been told is true, Daikin purchased Goodman.

I have two houses with Daikin Furnaces, and two more with Goodman Air Conditioners. Goodman, to the best of my knowledge, has made good quality products, but they were not heavily promoted to retail customers.

I have repaired a Goodman Furnace, I had to order the parts through Johnstone Supply.

I would buy another Goodman, if and when I need to replace what I presently have.
 

niget2002

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Josephine, TX
My house and shop both have trane that are only a few years old.

I needed work done on them and had to call around to find someone certified. Talking to the guy, it sounds like they've recently changed their warranty practices and it's harder to get things fixed under warranty.

I could have misunderstood what he was saying, but that's the gist of what I got out of it.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
 

firebirdparts

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Kingsport, TN
I'm not sure if other manufacturers are doing this, but my American Standard units have outdoor coils made of copper tubing, seamlessly. The fins are wrapped on. I like that. It's a lot less likely to ever leak. The indoor units may be less hardy, but I haven't had any trouble with them.
 

reader2580

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If you trust Consumer Reports they rate Ruud/Rheem highest. My research finds that Rheem and Ruud are identical. I found some stuff online that even states that wholesalers simply attach a Rheem or Ruud label depending on what the dealer wants.

Many people say the installation is more important than the brand. I have been watching some Youtube videos on HVAC installs and some of them are really bad. I think my install is pretty good and has none of the issues seen in the videos.
 

HenryAZ

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If you are not going to be installing and servicing it yourself, I would suggest to pick the installer/company that is locally known to provide the best service. Even the best top name brand is no good if whoever installed it won't provide quality service. Go with the brand that the installer uses. My local best HVAC company uses Trane, so that's the brand I go with. If they used Carrier, I would go with that. Their service is excellent. They know Trane inside and out and have priority access to Trane's distributers and tech support, when needed. I've seen them get a specific problem solved while on site here by calling up Trane's support, for which they have access to top level troubleshooting support.
 
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Dan V.

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west michigan
Not looking yet...but my unit is getting elderly. We have a local company pushing the Daikin. Where did that brand come from? I'm guessing name change, as I have only been aware of them for a few years.
 

hilld

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Not looking yet...but my unit is getting elderly. We have a local company pushing the Daikin. Where did that brand come from? I'm guessing name change, as I have only been aware of them for a few years.

Daikin has been around forever, over 90 years as a matter of fact. https://daikincomfort.com/why-daikin/our-history They are extremely well known in the mini-split market and as was already pointed out in this thread bought one of the major traditional HVAC mfg's, Goodman in 2012. Wow, time flies. https://www.goodmanmfg.com/about/history

I have a 4 head Daikin mini split in our vacation home and it is working well. I don't think you can go wrong with Daikin, but as has already been mentioned, go with what your local installer services and supports.
 

SweetD

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Many people say the installation is more important than the brand.

We installed two units last summer. Evcon branded - I believe Johnson Controls is the parent company. Label says Made In USA.

Anyway, through a friend we were able to get our installer who had just retired from 35 years of commercial HVAC install work. Fountain of knowledge and he let me "assist" him with the install so we talked a lot.

His main point was most residential units are pretty much the same in quality unless you go really $$$ or really cheap.

The quality and durability lies with a quality install. He said that to me a few times over the day.
 

mikegt4

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My SIL has been installing them for 20+ years, grandson followed in his footsteps for a while. It seems more like whatever brand a dealer sells is the "best" available and all manufacturers have good and bad models. Install quality is probably more important than brand, there is a lot of poor workmanship out there and usually a "one and done" attitude.

Edit: happened to mention this thread to my SIL, he got a good laugh out of it. He said that due to government regulations they all perform about the same. The differences are in the parts sourcing, mentioned Goodman/Amana as sourcing their components from China, they last just long enough to get past the warranty period.
 
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Showkey

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My SIL has been installing them for 20+ years, grandson followed in his footsteps for a while. It seems more like whatever brand a dealer sells is the "best" available and all manufacturers have good and bad models. Install quality is probably more important than brand, there is a lot of poor workmanship out there and usually a "one and done" attitude.

Edit: happened to mention this thread to my SIL, he got a good laugh out of it. He said that due to government regulations they all perform about the same. The differences are in the parts sourcing, mentioned Goodman/Amana as sourcing their components from China, they last just long enough to get past the warranty period.


There’s only one regulation that applies.......it’s handling of the refrigerate which has little to do with the effectiveness, longevity or efficiency of the system. Where unit sizing, zoning, duct work design/sizing, pipe routing, pipe evacuation, pipe brazing, initial setup, final refrig adjustment.

As far as part sourcing there are going to foreign parts in every unit by every manufacturer .......especially sensors, motors and electrical boards.

Consider your $1000 tv or washer has a one year warranty. The HVAC might have a 10 parts warranty. Amana has 10 years part and labor on all parts.......where Lennox and others might have 10 years on the compressor and 1 to 5 year on other covered parts and some might have 1 year on some parts and labor. Read the warranty carefully as the 10 years is in large print is the compressor and the fine print is very informative. That warranty detail is not on many sales brochures.
 

Bopbop

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Savannah,Ga
I will second HenryAZ. No matter how good the product is the unit is only as good as the installer and how good the contractor is at providing service. The company i work with is a consulting engineering firm. I have several Mechanical engineers working with me who do HVAC design. Their issues is not with the equipment but the installing contractors. Some are terrible and should not be doing any work.
 
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Rich M.

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Timonium, Maryland
I will second HenryAZ. No matter how good the product is the unit is only as good as the installer and how good the contractor is at providing service. The company i work with is a consulting engineering firm. I have several Mechanical engineers working with me who do HVAC design. Their issues is not with the equipment but the installing contractors. Some are terrible and should not be doing any work.

Okay, since I am not knowledgeable in this area, what are some of the main things to know or to look for at the time of install.

I will start it off with my thought:

1 contractor stands behind the work and is reasonably available for servicing.
2.
3.
4.
Etc...
 

bigdav160

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The reason the installer is so important (and self installs problematic) is that, unlike a car manufacture where you can get warranty work done at any manufacturer dealership, the A/C installation dealer is administering the A/C equipment warranty.
 

hilld

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Not sure if a self install is problematic. I have done it several times and I do better work than many of the HVAC installers I have dealt with over the past 40 years. Not all of them, but many.
 

bigdav160

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Not sure if a self install is problematic. I have done it several times and I do better work than many of the HVAC installers I have dealt with over the past 40 years. Not all of them, but many.

True. I've installed several (in my own homes). IT's not rocket science.

I wasn't clear. I meant it in terms of manufacture warranty support.
 
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hilld

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Very true on the warranty support, it is scam if you ask me. For example, I just installed a Bosch 12k mini split that I bought from Lowes for $1100 (military discount, including line set). I did have to spend $60 on a wall mount bracket, $75 on a line set cover and another $80 on a disconnect, flex tite and some wiring. I already had the tools.

i-MFXwD7j-XL.jpg


So, I am in it for about $1300 (give or take a few bucks), plus my time (~6 hours including the electrical work). The closest local contractor wanted about $3k. I figure, even if I have to replace some parts down the road, I am still ahead financially.
 

yeldogt

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Very true on the warranty support, it is scam if you ask me. For example, I just installed a Bosch 12k mini split that I bought from Lowes for $1100 (military discount, including line set). I did have to spend $60 on a wall mount bracket, $75 on a line set cover and another $80 on a disconnect, flex tite and some wiring. I already had the tools.

i-MFXwD7j-XL.jpg


So, I am in it for about $1300 (give or take a few bucks), plus my time (~6 hours including the electrical work). The closest local contractor wanted about $3k. I figure, even if I have to replace some parts down the road, I am still ahead financially.

Doing something yourself is always going to be less expensive ?

Most people can't DIY .. especially the refrigerant lines
 

hilld

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Very true on people not being comfortable DIY'ing some of this stuff. I do have about $1200 in tools to allow me to do this work, including guage set, nitrogen tank, torque wrench, flaring tools, etc. But I bought the tools years ago and have used them on multiple installs, not only my own, but friends and family as well.

I have yet have a unit fail (knock on wood).

But the original point wasn't the cost, but the quality of install and the requirements for warranty coverage. I did take lots of pictures of the install including pressures when running in case I ever have to file a warranty claim and need proof of successful install.

I could always "generate" an invoice if needed for proof.

IMG_0679-XL.jpg


IMG_0673-XL.jpg
 

LS6 Tommy

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I have more commercrial/industrial experience than residential, but I have done it enought to know I'm fond of Trane. Don't like Carrier much. Like previously posted many times, installation quality is more important than the brand.

Tommy
 

yeldogt

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There is no "best' ....

All the manufacturers make various lines .. some use secondary names for the various levels

Carrier uses the Carrier brand for the best stuff. All the oil dealers in my area sold the Bryant brand (same stuff). This allowed two different tracks of sales ..... all the manufacturers do it.

Some of the names are regional companies that got bought and have relevance in a particular spot .. some of those got whole lines. In many cases the secondary names are used for builder grade products or mid tier stuff sold through smaller installers ..... or even to builders direct.

There is no one reason for all the names. It always best to google an odd name and see who makes it -- go to the primary site and see what is offered and compare specifications.

I have been using the better Carrier stuff for almost 20 years. Why -- they make the best zoning and I always zone. So -- I went that way. The also have an oddball 5 speed unit that fits well with what I do.

The better stuff from all the manufactures is all quite amazing today -- quiet and variable speed. It's also expensive.

For years I used the Carrier mid line for rentals as well as Arcoair -- they both had a good units for that application. When I used Arcoair they were independent -- now Carrier owns them.

For most basic replacements .... get a good heat load done. Find out what state programs are around. Some are really good and get you a free audit and sizable rebates. The rebates can make the better equipment cheaper than the basic.

Goodman used to only sell very basic equipment -- they would also sell to anybody. So every hack that said they did HVAC ... bought Goodman. Goodman was a price driven product ... property installed it worked fine ... they tended to be loud and the cabinets thin. Since most had poor installs -- they had hard lives. Also -- most Goodmans did not have any of the "extra" sensors that would stop the unit should it be hot of low on refrigerant ... they ran until they died.

Today Goodman is much better -- they own Amana. Amana is the top Goodman. It's all owned by Daikin now .. so you see how this gets complex. They have a great warranty.

Picking a model and company .... it's about need. The new units when you bump up the line are silent .. and with variable speed fan motors and possible variable compressors they can transform a house comfort ... no noise and no humidity w/o over cooling. DO they save some $$ in operating costs .... yes. Doing the math you will see the better units often take a long time to pay back unless the rebates are strong (some are)

The better units are about comfort and quiet -- not saving money.

My brother did a retrofit of two units when he bought in SC a couple years back -- I recommended the Bosch .... they have an interesting unit for retrofits.

Again -- it's really about what you need. The single speed stuff in the 14 range is all about the same ...
 

yeldogt

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I have more commercrial/industrial experience than residential, but I have done it enought to know I'm fond of Trane. Don't like Carrier much. Like previously posted many times, installation quality is more important than the brand.

Tommy

Trane kept the reciprocal compressors too long .... The better stuff they sold had two of them to provide VS. Crazy set up .... lousy zoning as well. But, the compressors were strong (made in house) and that was great for when single speeds were the norm and if it was sized correctly.

Carrier had a bunch of problems with a Bristol compressor they used 15 years ago and like many companies had leak issues as they worked through the efficiency problems of thinner wall pipe and higher pressures.

Carrier uses both Scroll and rotary compressors ..... Trane I believe only using the Scroll. They buy them .. like everybody.

Amana/Goodman ...may use a daikin made ... rotary in one.
 

Jim greengo

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We installed two units last summer. Evcon branded - I believe Johnson Controls is the parent company. Label says Made In USA.

Anyway, through a friend we were able to get our installer who had just retired from 35 years of commercial HVAC install work. Fountain of knowledge and he let me "assist" him with the install so we talked a lot.

His main point was most residential units are pretty much the same in quality unless you go really $$$ or really cheap.

The quality and durability lies with a quality install. He said that to me a few times over the day.
Coleman/evcon has been making stuff for other companies who put their name on it for years.
 

yeldogt

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Very true on people not being comfortable DIY'ing some of this stuff. I do have about $1200 in tools to allow me to do this work, including guage set, nitrogen tank, torque wrench, flaring tools, etc. But I bought the tools years ago and have used them on multiple installs, not only my own, but friends and family as well.

I have yet have a unit fail (knock on wood).

But the original point wasn't the cost, but the quality of install and the requirements for warranty coverage. I did take lots of pictures of the install including pressures when running in case I ever have to file a warranty claim and need proof of successful install.

I could always "generate" an invoice if needed for proof.

IMG_0679-XL.jpg


IMG_0673-XL.jpg

I'm sure the Bosch mini is a decent unit .... they all keep getting better. Done correctly -- they should all hold up 10 years. If I was DIY -- paying an extra $100 or so for a name brand like Bosch would be worth it. You got a good price.
 

Jim greengo

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My SIL has been installing them for 20+ years, grandson followed in his footsteps for a while. It seems more like whatever brand a dealer sells is the "best" available and all manufacturers have good and bad models. Install quality is probably more important than brand, there is a lot of poor workmanship out there and usually a "one and done" attitude.

Edit: happened to mention this thread to my SIL, he got a good laugh out of it. He said that due to government regulations they all perform about the same. The differences are in the parts sourcing, mentioned Goodman/Amana as sourcing their components from China, they last just long enough to get past the warranty period.

There's plenty of goodman furnaces and ac's around here well past their warranty period that are still running fine.
 

yeldogt

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There's plenty of goodman furnaces and ac's around here well past their warranty period that are still running fine.

The new stuff actually looks decent .... The better installing companies all seem to have Amana as as second line around me.

There was nothing inherently wrong with the older Goodman products -- just, very basic stuff. Thin cabinets -- loud fans .. no insulation on the compressor. The lack of low charge sensor did many in.

For a few hundred bucks the Carrier builder grade stuff was a better value for me years ago -- mostly for quiet and if it dropped a charge .. better paint. But, if it kept the charge and you switched out the filters they ran just as long
 
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Hobby_Man22

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Oh I see plenty of nicely faded goodman ac units. I doubt they **** the bed after the warranty ends.
 

HVACR1

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Not sure if this is the year or not, but sooner or later, probably sooner than later, my HVAC system will have to be replaced. Currently I have a 3 ton Trane system that have worked well.

I know I cannot always used how it was built 22 years ago to gauge how systems are built today, but are they still good like some installers say or is there better products now out there.

Like all major appliance, I try to put in the time and do the research. What I am finding is the research is all over the place as how the AC units are rated, mainly by them. Sometime Trane and Carrier are near the top and in other articles they are in the middle. Couple Carrier articles listed them near the bottom. Hum!

Normally I try to see if the person writing the article is tied to a certain brand, which may make his comment bias or it could be he truly believes in this brand.

Anyway, I am looking for comments from members that had one brand or another installed and what are your thoughts.

Also what about brands like Amana or American Standard?

One local contractor who gets excellent reviews swears by Amana. I have not seen many Amana units through my community. The one neighbor that I did asked said it works fine.

One main opinion I am looking for is any brand that I should not even consider.

I have been in the HVAC industry for 24 years, and owned an HVAC business. True 10 years ago some mfg were better than others. Now most parts come from Asian countries or Mexico, few parts or components are made here in the states. All mfg warranty the parts for 10 years if the system is registered. Be careful of what you read on the Net...usually complaints are not based on equipment problems but "equipment" problems based on crappy installation. The biggest difference today is NOT the mfg but who and how it is being installed, again not the equipment, can't stress that enough. When we installed a system, we conducted a heat load/loss, sat down with different mfg capacity data and chose the one that best matched the load calc. We were not partial to any mfg, as that did the customers no good. To meet the minimum efficiency standards (14 SEER for cooling) and or higher efficiency ratings, two things had to be done, the surface of the coils was increased and the heat exchanging surface (again the coils) had to be made of thinner material. Maintenance is absolutely required due to the larger thinner material, a light coating of dust/debris on the indoor or outdoor coil can decrease efficiency by 12%. Most mfg use the same mfg compressors (Copeland) which are more hardy and efficient due to the scroll design, however they cannot overcome a poor or mediocre installation. If you opt for a 10 Year labor warranty (which you pay extra for) watch out, there are only two mfg who provide their own labor warranty; Goodman and York all other mfg provide a labor warranty through a third party and this can be wrought with fine print. Although some mfgs might be slightly better than others, this is not really important, again the installation is the driving force behind how well, how long the equipment will perform and last. The heat load/loss calculation in an absolute necessity. I taught HVAC at the local community college here in Norfolk, Va, so between that, my field experience and running a business I have been exposed to lots of information. The HVAC industry is running at an 80% shortage of QUALIFIED technicians, for every 8 leaving 2 are coming in. It is so very difficult to find good to very good technicians. Ask your HVAC company what qualification their techs and installers have. A CFC (refrigerant) qualification means nothing. A NATE (North American Technical Excellence), or a state Masters license are comforting, but not the panacea to ensure things will be done as stated. A detailed Contract and proof via pics and video during the installation will prove or disprove the quality of the install. Replacing the particular tonnage system with the same size is just wrong. For example a 3-ton system from yesteryear has a very different capacity than todays equipment, and too, the capacity, using the 3-ton example, from mfg to mfg varies. The installing company should have no trouble performing a load/loss calc then proving to you why a particular mfg was chosen. The existing ducting needs to be assessed for condition and size. Airflow is King, nothing about the cooling system can be right (the refrigerant charge, dehumidification, comfort and utility costs) without proper airflow. Doing all of this right will provide you with a longer lasting system, improved comfort and lower utility bills. I could go on and on about what separates a good/very good/stellar installation from a mediocre/poor one but that would take time and lots of writing, but I already have gone on and on, lol. Suffice it to say, I obviously have no vested interest in what you choose to do, but what I have listed are some of the most important details for a consumer to consider when choosing an installation. Hope some of it helps or causes you to consider who will do what and how for YOU. Not because they are beholden to a particular mfg to meet revenue goals for that mfg, get kick backs for selling a certain amount, get sent to Cancun for their sales volume, etc., etc. A good resource is www.ACCA.org, the authority for our industry, they along with ASHRAE are responsible for writing standards. they are a non-profit dedicated to providing resources and training to contractors who have paid to belong and have good info on their site for consumers as well.
 

yeldogt

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Taking HVARCR1 one more step. It's often hard to get accurate loads done.

Another problem is the actual install of the ductwork ... most times it's done for ease and speed. Lots of guesswork .... so someone replacing equipment is stuck with a poor install in the walls that can not be fixed easily.

The vast majority of homes have inadequate ductwork .... too small and restrictive. Not enough returns ...
 

Showkey

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I have been in the HVAC industry for 24 years, and owned an HVAC business The HVAC industry is running at an 80% shortage of QUALIFIED technicians, for every 8 leaving 2 are coming in. It is so very difficult to find good to very good technicians. Ask your HVAC company what qualification their techs and installers have. A


:headscrat:headscrat:headscratSounds like the auto repair business and many other trades.
 

HVACR1

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Taking HVARCR1 one more step. It's often hard to get accurate loads done.

Another problem is the actual install of the ductwork ... most times it's done for ease and speed. Lots of guesswork .... so someone replacing equipment is stuck with a poor install in the walls that can not be fixed easily.

The vast majority of homes have inadequate ductwork .... too small and restrictive. Not enough returns ...

yeldogt, the only true load calc that is recongnized industry wise is the ACCA Manual J, or one of their three accepted software makers, Wrightsoft, Adtek and I am having a senior moment on the other one. You are 100% correct about all the duct issues you mention, it must be a nationwide problem. The ducting must be accurate, again going back to ACCA's Manual D. then onto Manual S. If consumers want an installation done properly then they should be willing to pay a professional, not a salesman that wants to sell boxes and upsell the job, to ensure the job is done correctly. HVAC is a really complicated profession, one has to know an ungodly amount to be worth a whit in this field. When consumers catch on it is a vast field that involves quite a bit of math and lots of science then there will be fewer complaints. Often time consumers choose who is the cheapest and get what they pay for, a low quality job at a low cost. Good is not cheap and cheap is not good or.... Long after the sweetness of low price, the bitterness of poor quality remains. BTW: I love HVAC!
 

thooks

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Watch some HVAC Repair channels on Youtube. They are all going to show the same brands needing constant service/repair-

Goodman
Amana
Something_Star
Something_Tech

All the names you've never heard on the TV or radio.

You rarely see Lennox. Sometimes see Trane. Will see Carrier more than those two.


If you're gonna stay with plain-ole, cheap residential type equipment, go with Lennox.


If you're looking to cut your power bill in half, go with a Daikin mini-split or commercial VRV-S system. Ultimate comfort, generally knocking 35-50% off your current power bill.
 

diylover

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Joined
Apr 22, 2021
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greenvale ny
I would also suggest Lennox; they've consistently been quite decent with longevity and a neighbor recently installed a Lennox whole house air purifier as well which has been doing good. But manufacturer should always be your #2 consideration, #1 is install quality. All brands can perform poorly if the installation isn't to spec
 
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