Ceramic Tile - Why not or why?

[Virago9577]

Ok guys, Have a 28 x 14 suspended 6" 32mpa concrete floor with fiber - It was poured into a galvanized steel tray which was prepped with 250' of pex for in floor garage heating. The pex was held in place by steel mesh and ties. The floor has been in place for 9 months so is completely cured. The entire suspended slab is supported by 4 i-beams held up by the concrete foundation along the front and back and outer garage wall. The inner wall is supported by a 30' ibeam - that runs front to back and that in turn is supported mid way by 2 4x4 steel posts from the basement foundation below . The posts are welded into the entire structure. Needless to say the thing is solid. You can see by the pics how it went from tray to floor. I have also replaced the small window looking out over the water with a honking big picture window and then removed the insulation and had new icynene 1/2 lb poly eurethane insulation spayed into the entire front face of the garage so it is well insulated. Then had a new gypsum ceiling put in over the old and have completely primed - 4 coats to get rid of the staining and yellowing. I plan to paint the garage semi high gloss gray for the first four or so feet and then semi high gloss white for the rest and ceiling. Have two Ligts of america 750Watt compact fglorescents to go in....but now for the hard part....

trying to decide what type of floor surface to use. Don't think Racedeck type floor is the way to go since it could trap water which could then drip down into the living space below the deck. So the decision is between ceramic tiles or poly asphartic or epoxy type floor. Don't want to do it myself after reading some of the issues experienced by others. Would prefer to have a pro come in and do the job either way.

So the underlying question is why the heck not go with a ceramic tile? The cost for many of the tiles I see at Home Depot / Lowes is like $2.00 - 3.00 per tile and the cost to have a pro come in will likely be a couple of days labor at between $35.00 and $50.00 / Hr. Has anyone done that or why not?


Thoughts anyone Virago9577

 

[Cruzin90]

Just thinking: Ceramic tile is porous. You would need to seal it really well and perhaps reseal it again after some time. Float the floor well or they may crack with excessive weight.

 

[Jack Olsen]

Ceramic tile is porous? Maybe the unglazed type. I've had ceramic tile in my garage for almost three years -- laid by a first-timer on top of a terrible, 85-year-old slab -- I'm very happy with it.

Epoxy was out of the question for me because of surface and vapor-barrier issues. My ceramic tiles were on sale for .59 each (1sf) at Home Depot. The surface is great for liquid spills. Oil wipes up with a paper towel, no longer how long it's been sitting there. Even dried spray paint comes off with a fingernail or a razor blade dragged across it. I blow the place out with a leaf blower to clean it. You can walk on the stuff barefoot and two weekends ago we were rolling an 500-pound engine around on it perched on a sears jack.

Bare or polished concrete is the most durable surface you'll find, probably. Pretty much every other surface requires some special care. Epoxies scratch. Racedeck-type tiles can let oil and other fluids down and through. Ceramic tile will show slag burns if you weld on top of it. And it will chip or crack with enough impact. The thing I like about it is how easy it is to drop in a new tile and have an invisible repair as a result. Epoxy patches are not as easy to hide.

That said, I'm not a floor expert. But my experience with ceramic tiles has been a good one.

There's also porcelain tiles, which can be found for a buck a square foot and are even harder than ceramic.

 

[Cruzin90]

....and porcelain tile is less porous also.

There are some unglazed ceramic tile, like terra cotta. I would probably stay away from unglazed types for sure.

You know, porcelain tile may be the answer

 

[mpire]

I guess tile is fancy and all, but I still get comments on my floor all the time.

People ask me what I do to make it so shiny. I tell them I mop it.

 

[Munich77]

What about something like VCT with a clear coat of epoxy on top. The VCT should be cheap and easy to put down, the epoxy would protect the surface.

 

[nate379]

Don't see how tile could even hold up. Drop a hammer and boom, busted tile.

 

[rustbucket49]

Ceramic tile is porous? Maybe the unglazed type. I've had ceramic tile in my garage for almost three years -- laid by a first-timer on top of a terrible, 85-year-old slab -- I'm very happy with it.

Epoxy was out of the question for me because of surface and vapor-barrier issues. My ceramic tiles were on sale for .59 each (1sf) at Home Depot. The surface is great for liquid spills. Oil wipes up with a paper towel, no longer how long it's been sitting there. Even dried spray paint comes off with a fingernail or a razor blade dragged across it. I blow the place out with a leaf blower to clean it. You can walk on the stuff barefoot and two weekends ago we were rolling an 500-pound engine around on it perched on a sears jack.

Bare or polished concrete is the most durable surface you'll find, probably. Pretty much every other surface requires some special care. Epoxies scratch. Racedeck-type tiles can let oil and other fluids down and through. Ceramic tile will show slag burns if you weld on top of it. And it will chip or crack with enough impact. The thing I like about it is how easy it is to drop in a new tile and have an invisible repair as a result. Epoxy patches are not as easy to hide.

That said, I'm not a floor expert. But my experience with ceramic tiles has been a good one.

There's also porcelain tiles, which can be found for a buck a square foot and are even harder than ceramic.

Jack, I can't tell from all your pictures, but did you grout your ceramic tile?? Curious if you did what kind you used - regular stuff or what......

 

[jwillis]

I don't know if it is still on the market or not, but when I did my kitchen about ten years ago, I used a product called ROTILE. It is cement slabs about 8 1/2 X 8 1/2 and it is about 5/8 inches thick. The top of the tile looks like regular ceramic tile and is polished. You can get it in different sizes and you can get an indoor version or an outdoor version. When I got mine, Zantigo Taco had it in all their restaurants and the Mercedes Benz showroom in Detroit had it down on their floor. So you can drive a car on it. It have also seen it outside at one of the malls in Cincinnati. It is really super stuff. I have had it down for about ten years and it is hard to stain. The only thing that can harm it (supposedly) is masking tape. It is almost indestructable...........Good luck. j willis

 

[Jack Olsen]

Don't see how tile could even hold up. Drop a hammer and boom, busted tile.

I think people assume it's like the tiles in a bathroom -- but it's not. I dropped my 65-pound 10" vise from a 37" work surface and it chipped a tile.

I could replace the tile, but I just dabbed some tan-colored paint on it.

Jack, I can't tell from all your pictures, but did you grout your ceramic tile?? Curious if you did what kind you used - regular stuff or what......

Regular grout. I went with a dark color so I wouldn't see any oil stains. I could seal it, but I've spilled a lot of oil and other chemicals on it and it's still dark brown.

If you wanted a lighter color for the grout, I guess you could use the epoxy stuff or seal it. But that's too much work and expense for me.

 

[Motorhead Extraordinaire]

We end up in a lot of dealerships installing cabinets, workbenches, etc. and more and more dealerships are using tile in their service departments which has been a Europe thing for many, many years. They look fantastic and apparently hold up and clean up real nice.

When we did the addition to our garage a few years ago we did that room with tiles. While it is primarily an office environment it looks as good as the day it was put in. One of these days I would like to do the garage floor with tiles. I think it looks far better than plastic floor tiles.

Joe

 

[kenikh]

This is great info - I ahve a very similar circumstance with moisture wicking floors and am about convinced now that double buttered ceramic glazed tile is where I am headed.

Thanks!

 

[mpire]

I dropped a transmission on my floor once. It dented my floor. After a few months the dent disappeared. Didn't chip or anything, just dented. Strange.

 

[TX63CONV]

Don't see how tile could even hold up. Drop a hammer and boom, busted tile.

At $0.59 a tile who cares?

Jack--living in the SoCal area, have you had any issues with cracks or shifts in your soil that have affected the tile?

Living in Dallas, TX, our soils can shift dramatically during the wet/dry cycles in a year.

 

[a91syncro]

I say Tile it. I set tile for a living and it is strong stuff. There are morters that will help with movement if that is what you are worried about.
Various vendors also have isolation membranes to uncouple your tile from the substrate undertneath. Porcelain would be the way to go. Much more dense than ceramic.

 

[nate379]

What the heck tiles are you buying at 0.59/tile? Even the super ultra cheap junk at Lowe's is still $1/tile. Normal stuff is $2-3 a tile.

Not to mention it's a royal PITA to lay and grout. I find it about as fun as mudding drywall or sanding Bondo. It flat out *****.

At $0.59 a tile who cares?

Jack--living in the SoCal area, have you had any issues with cracks or shifts in your soil that have affected the tile?

Living in Dallas, TX, our soils can shift dramatically during the wet/dry cycles in a year.

 

[Virago9577]

My decision is in....Gonna go with Porcelain Tiles - 12" or 16" . Found an installer locally in Eastern Ontario who says he can do the job and that his price for tiles (wholesale) will still beat the US price I can get from Loews or HD. Meet with him saturday.

So here's the questions that remain.

1 - Ever heard of this company -http://www.vaultgarage.com/garage-flooring/porcelain-garage-tiles.html

Nice looking product - not sure what makes it diffferent than a Big Box porcelain tile though?

2 - How hard is it to lay tile....and how time consuming - HD offers installation at $5.65/SQ/ft. which comes to $2200.00 + Tiles @ $4.00/tile =1568.00 Total 4 job: $3800.00
seems a little rich.

3 - I like the look of tiles laid on a 45 degree angle to the walls ...any thoughts?


Thanks virago9577

 

[f66]

virago9577,

The choice of Epoxy, Race Deck, or Porcelain tile is a personal choice that involves your budget, the "look" you want to achieve, how you will use your shop, and the time you want to spend on your project.

The pros and cons to each material have been discussed extensively on this forum. I decided to respond because I considered all of the above and decided to lay porcelain tile in a portion of my 3 car garage. (1 bay) I plan on using this part of my shop as my clean area. I will not be doing cutting welding or heavy mechanical work in this part of the shop. I like the look of the PENSKE NASCAR race shop, which uses tile. I am still in the process of finishing the tile, grout etc. I chose a chekerboard pattern. I have laid a fair amount of tile, and also like the diagonal pattern. I have attached a photo of my garage project in progress. Also, 5.65 seems steep to lay tile. In my area 2.50-3.00 is the going rate. With that said, get references and even go look at jobs your installer has done previously. I have also had guys lay tile for me in other projects that talk a good game, but do horrible work. Most garage floors have slope for drainage, and in my case had both a slope and a "hump" in the middle for drainage. Ask your tile guy how he will deal with the slope and un-even floor. Good luck with your project

F66

 

[jhelrey]

It is very easy to do...

Tile is all about prep work. Clean the floor really well. Set your lines with chalk lines. Spread thinset on the back of the tile and place them next to the line. After that, butter the floor and go crazy. Wait 24 hours and grout with a black sanded grout. Wait 24 hours and waterproof it.

All done! Materials are cheap! It's your labor.

 

[ct71rr]

I'm leaning toward porcelain tiles, as well. I've laid tile before, it's not that hard to do. Just take your time with the layout and dry-fit a few courses if you have to. I also spray the chalk lines down with hairspray so that they will not disappear.

 

[nate379]

Not hard to do, just a PITA. I would rather get some teeth pulled with rusty Harbor Freight vice grips then do tile.

 

[Virago9577]

I'm in Reading PA and know some of the Penske guys...Toured the Penske race shop before but don't remember the tile though. May see if I can go back and get some ideas. This garage is going to be more of a show piece. I have plans for a 28x28 that will be a seperate detached w lift etc and will likely go Porcelain there too...if this one works well.

Trying to convince Wifey that she will enjoy parking her baby - 2007 Denali Envoy on a nice clean heated floor with none of my tools and projects to get through. The flooring will be the icing on the cake me thinks.

Re the water drainage issue not sure if there is anything I can do to take care of that since the floor is already poured and quite flat. The only thing I need to do to prep is to do some vbery light sanding or ? to remove some of the mud splatter from the mudders drywalling. My water plan is containment - I thought I'd simply put a nice high baseboard trim of some sort and then silicone or seal it to the tile floor. That would at least keep water from draining through to the living space below. Since the floor will be heated in the winter...runoff should largely evapoate into the dry winter air. Whats left can be squeegeed out.

Virago9577

 

[a91syncro]

To set that much tile may take a day and a half for a pro like me. Fairly simple job, nothing to cut around and square. The price seems about right. I get about six to seven $'s a square in Madison Wi. If your going on a 45 you will add to the cost of labor and material.

 

[scotw]

If it was my place, here's what I would do.

1) Starting from from the surface of the concrete, apply a modified thinset. The modified thinset provides for better adhesion than standard thinset.

2) Apply a water proof anti-fracture membrane. All concrete will crack, its just a matter of time. The anti-fracture memrane will prevent the concrete cracks from going through to the top surface. It will also prevent water from seeping through the cracks.

3) Apply corner treatment. This will waterproof the walls up to a couple of inches. Any large amounts of water will go out the garage door.

4) Apply an unmodified thinset. Use an unmodified thinset because a modified will take forever to cure between the imperious membrame and imperious tile.

5) Apply porcelain tile. Use the smallest grout width you can. The size of the grout width depends on how uniform the tiles are in size. Choose colors which don't show dirt. Larger tiles require less grout.

6) Apply a epoxy grout. The new epoxy grouts are no harder to install than the cement based grouts and will not stain with most things that spill on it. You do not have to seal an epoxy grout. Install and forget about it. Again, choose a color that does not show dirt.

With this procedure, you will have a floor that will last as long as your house, if properly installed. This is overkill for most garages, but you have living area under the garage. I know you are worried about water, but what if gasoline or other liquids get on the floor? Do you want that in your living area?

For a detailed description of waterproofing a ceramic tile floor, see

http://www.schluter.com/media/brochures/DitraHandbook.pdf

For epoxy grouts, see

http://www.spectralock.com/


The local shopping mall installed ceramic tile directly on concrete, but after it cracked they redid it with an anitfracture membrane (different brand than above). I haven't seen any problems with the new floor.

 

[BerBer5985]

We own a flooring company and if you go with a quality porcelain tile, you'd be more than fine. Ceramic tile will crack much easier. Most porcelain tiles are frost proof meaning they won't crack in cold or hot weather. They have a very high crack resistance when installed correctly. Of course, it's still now as durable as the solid concrete, but it would be a really nice upgrade. If you have the money, there are commercial based epoxy grouts that are resistant to staining including oils and other materials. Another option would be to spend a little more money and go with a solid rubber tile. Check out Johnsonite Defiant Oil resistant rubber tile. It would give you a smooth surface that's easy to clean, softer to stand and walk on, and will last a lifetime. Just a thought. And if something happens to one, put a new one in it's place. Just throwing that out there.

 

[mmhouse]

Did you consider having the concrete polished? I don't know the cost but it looks good and I would think would be pretty much maintenance free.

 

[lencoo12]

Ceramic tile is porous? Maybe the unglazed type. I've had ceramic tile in my garage for almost three years -- laid by a first-timer on top of a terrible, 85-year-old slab -- I'm very happy with it.

Epoxy was out of the question for me because of surface and vapor-barrier issues. My ceramic tiles were on sale for .59 each (1sf) at Home Depot. The surface is great for liquid spills. Oil wipes up with a paper towel, no longer how long it's been sitting there. Even dried spray paint comes off with a fingernail or a razor blade dragged across it. I blow the place out with a leaf blower to clean it. You can walk on the stuff barefoot and two weekends ago we were rolling an 500-pound engine around on it perched on a sears jack.

Bare or polished concrete is the most durable surface you'll find, probably. Pretty much every other surface requires some special care. Epoxies scratch. Racedeck-type tiles can let oil and other fluids down and through. Ceramic tile will show slag burns if you weld on top of it. And it will chip or crack with enough impact. The thing I like about it is how easy it is to drop in a new tile and have an invisible repair as a result. Epoxy patches are not as easy to hide.

That said, I'm not a floor expert. But my experience with ceramic tiles has been a good one.

There's also porcelain tiles, which can be found for a buck a square foot and are even harder than ceramic.

...and porcelain tile is less porous also.

There are some unglazed ceramic tile, like terra cotta. I would probably stay away from unglazed types for sure.

You know, porcelain tile may be the answer

 

[supertooljunkie]

After reading about some of the nightmare stories with epoxy coatings, I would have to go with tile. I like the looks of epoxy, but tile just seems more exotic.

 

[TheShrine]

Ceramic/Porcelain tile the bath, kitchen, and living room! Tile in the garage looks like you got a deal (as in $0.59 a piece) on tile and is...........it just ain't right. ......unless you fancy parking/wrenching in the bathroom.

 

[wildfire0310]

How easy does a jack or other such equipment roll across a tile floor compare to a normal rough up floor or even a nice epoxy floor??

 

[burnitwithfire]

When I worked in a hardware store, we hauled pallets of hardwood flooring with an electric pallet jack. The floor was ceramic and we never chipped or cracked a tile. The pallet jack had two steel wheels.

Properly installed tiles will be fine.

 

[Jack Olsen]

How easy does a jack or other such equipment roll across a tile floor compare to a normal rough up floor or even a nice epoxy floor??

It's as easy to roll stuff across it as on concrete, and it holds up fine. It's also a lot easier to clean up than concrete. I can walk out to the garage barefoot and not end up with stuff all over my feet.

I wish the picture with the engine was clearer, because we're rolling a Craftsman floor jack across the tile in that picture... with a 500-lb engine perched on top of it.

All that weight is on three tiny steel wheels -- most of it on the front one. We rolled the engine in across the tile with no issue whatsoever. And we rolled it under a car which was supported by two jackstands -- with no plywood or piece of rubber -- or whatever it is that guys use to protect their epoxy floors.

Ceramic/Porcelain tile the bath, kitchen, and living room! Tile in the garage looks like you got a deal (as in $0.59 a piece) on tile and is...........it just ain't right. ......unless you fancy parking/wrenching in the bathroom.

It really doesn't look or feel anything like bathroom tile. It's like the tile you see in a public mall or a car dealership. But if you don't like the look of tiles, then it's definitely not for you.

 

[wildfire0310]

It's as easy to roll stuff across it as on concrete, and it holds up fine. It's also a lot easier to clean up than concrete. I can walk out to the garage barefoot and not end up with stuff all over my feet.

I wish the picture with the engine was clearer, because we're rolling a Craftsman floor jack across the tile in that picture... with a 500-lb engine perched on top of it.

All that weight is on three tiny steel wheels -- most of it on the front one. We rolled the engine in across the tile with no issue whatsoever. And we rolled it under a car which was supported by two jackstands -- with no plywood or piece of rubber -- or whatever it is that guys use to protect their epoxy floors.

Thanks. I have read over your build and really like how it looks. Just worried that doing heavy amount of pure automotive work would be an issue on the titles. Glad to hear it won't be an issues. Seem like more high end look.

 

[RichardNorman]

I just got done tiling my basement with some ceramic tile that Home Depot had on clearance for $.57 a square foot. Looks similar to Jack's garage....

....which leads to me in turn considering it for my garage. I do a lot of work in there getting my car ready for track days and such but nothing so heavy that I would worry about the durability of the ceramic. I do weld in there but most of my welding is up off the floor and I could easily use blankets.

Jack: I know you "double buttered" or "back buttered" your tiles when you put them in. Did you simply put a very thin skim coat on each tile to fill the waffle voids on the underside or did you actually use the notched side of the trowel to built up the thinset thickness to account for your floor's unevenness?

 

[Jack Olsen]

I used the notched side of the trowel on both the floor and the tile. I don't remember if I ran them parallel or perpendicular. I used a one-step-up-from-the-basic thinset (a white kind that's supposed to stay flexible longer) where I knew the car would be pulling in/out and resting. I don't know if that made any difference, but the cost was not much more than the basic thinset. I used the basic stuff everywhere else.

My goal was to prevent voids under the tiles. For filling the bigger irregularities in the floor I relied on vinyl patching cement. I could have tried leveling the whole floor with the cement mix made for that, but I was learning this stuff as I went along and it's... you know, just a garage. So there's a certain waviness to the overall floor because of the undulations in the slab. You can see it if you look at the base of the big cabinets in the back of the garage.

 

[RichardNorman]

Thanks. That's what I thought you did after reading more.

I think I may set a few tiles in some thinset in my garage and do some torture tests. I'll post pics for everyone's amusement!

 

[Sawbladz]

The more I read about all the different types of garage flooring it seems that tiles is the way to go for my application. I am rough on floors but I always try to keep a garage as clean as possible at all times. Spilling all types of automotive fluids will be a weekly occurrence but with a dark grout I don't see it being a problem. I would like to find some tiles where the grout is thin and flush with the top edge of the tile. I also prefer the look of larger tiles like a 12x24 or 24x24. I expect these sizes to be just as resistant to impact if laid correctly and will take away from the standard household tile look.

 

[haugy]

I've been reading this thread trying to see if it's feasible for me. My wife has her garage, and the floor is bare stained cracked concrete.

I've tiled my floors in my house, I'm guessing there isn't much more to it other than planning what type thinset you want to use?

Are you guys going anywhere special to get your tiles? As with these garages, that's a lot of square footage. I imagine that's a lot of tile, and some of these tiles are pricey.

My wife wants me to do the garage floor like I did the bathroom. I told her have fun putting it in.

 

[MSRTom]

^-- I like what you've done with the bathroom.

I'm leaning toward going with ceramic tile. I was concerned at first, because I wasn't sure about installing a MaxJax on it. I'll have to look back, but I think Wachuko installed his MaxJax on tile.

 

[idoine in toronto]

Here are some examples of ceramic quarry tiles.

here is a link to a manufacture of similar industrial tile, but there are many other sources for quarry tile.
http://www.metroceramics.com/