Certified Electrian

[magic_garage]

My friend who's a home owner is getting close to the end of his home being renovated which included a lot electrical work. When he asked who the licensed electrican was, and when he was coming to inspect the work (licensed person never came to the job site), he was told the licensed person is not needed to come onsite because the person doing the work is a "competent Electricain", and the "Certified Master Electrician has overseen his work for more than 5 years."

This doesn't sound right. Is there something in the NEC that states overwise? Anything he can ask for or do? Any suggestions would be appreciated.


TIA.

 

[BillK]

The only person that really has to inspect the work is the local building/electrical inspector ? If that is going to happen then why would someone else have to come and look at it ?

You should be able to go to your local government web site and see the rules for electrical work. The NEC is just a list of standards that need to be met for each type of electrical work. I might be wrong but I dont think it has anything to do with who actually does the work.

 

[alfredeneuman]

I don't know if it's the same as Hawaii but in CA a certified electrician can be employed for an Electrical Contractor and work alone.
It's common for the contractor to pull the permit, and never visit the job personally (that's why they have employees)

 

[mm08822]

Good concerns that should have been discussed at the onset of the project.

Sounds like a GC hired an Electrical Contractor (hopefully licensed) and they sent out one or more people to do the actual work. Typical.

Check with the local bldg dept for an electrical permit. Have rough wiring inspections been performed?

Verify what licensing is required for job site employees and for the level of supervision required. State of Hawaii licensing Board can easily provide these details. You can search online for the appropriate state department's requirements/contact info.

Ultimately, the licensed electrical contractor is responsible for all work of its employees.

Inspections once the walls are covered, trenches closed, etc., provide low chance for detection/correction.

 

[reader2580]

Inspections once the walls are covered, trenches closed, etc., provide low chance for detection/correction.

Isn't that what a rough-in inspection is for?

 

[mm08822]

Isn't that what a rough-in inspection is for?

Of course.....if it even happens and if the person inspecting is ensuring code requirements are met.

A building dept inspector shouldn't have bias that someone from the contractor may have.

 

[sparky 1971]

It's probably different everywhere in the country, but here an electrical contractor has to have at least one master electrician on the payroll. The owner has to carry a contractors license, but isn't required to have a masters (I am a one man show so I carry both). There is supposed to be someone with at least a journeymans license on site to ensure the job is done competently. The master doesn't need to go inspect the work, that's what inspectors are for. We also have residential only licenses, but I don't know for sure how those work and I don't know anyone that has one to ask.

If an electrical permit was pulled, it will need to get inspected and there shouldn't be any concerns. That being said, I am working on a job right now that two different contractors have managed to screw up, one did the service and I don't know how in the blue hell it ever got released to be turned on, the other did the rough in and I couldn't begin to explain why it was ok'd to cover the walls but I did check and both phases were inspected and passed by the state and both were completed by "master" electricians. The fact that someone is licensed or certified is worth almost as much as a thimblefull of horse ****, the same with some inspectors. There are incompetent buffoons in every walk of life.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My friend who's a home owner is getting close to the end of his home being renovated which included a lot electrical work. When he asked who the licensed electrican was, and when he was coming to inspect the work (licensed person never came to the job site), he was told the licensed person is not needed to come onsite because the person doing the work is a "competent Electricain", and the "Certified Master Electrician has overseen his work for more than 5 years."

This doesn't sound right. Is there something in the NEC that states overwise? Anything he can ask for or do? Any suggestions would be appreciated.


TIA.

you wont find anything in the NEC about licensing. Why? Because the NEC is not in charge of licensing.

if you want an answer to your question you have to check state building code laws and the rules your local AHJ- authority having jurisdiction, have regarding contractor work.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The only person that really has to inspect the work is the local building/electrical inspector ? If that is going to happen then why would someone else have to come and look at it ?

You should be able to go to your local government web site and see the rules for electrical work. The NEC is just a list of standards that need to be met for each type of electrical work. I might be wrong but I dont think it has anything to do with who actually does the work.

a good contractor will inspect his employees work from time to time or have his foreman inspect it BEFORE the building inspector comes so they can rectify any issues before inspection

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's probably different everywhere in the country, but here an electrical contractor has to have at least one master electrician on the payroll. The owner has to carry a contractors license, but isn't required to have a masters (I am a one man show so I carry both). There is supposed to be someone with at least a journeymans license on site to ensure the job is done competently. The master doesn't need to go inspect the work, that's what inspectors are for. We also have residential only licenses, but I don't know for sure how those work and I don't know anyone that has one to ask.

If an electrical permit was pulled, it will need to get inspected and there shouldn't be any concerns. That being said, I am working on a job right now that two different contractors have managed to screw up, one did the service and I don't know how in the blue hell it ever got released to be turned on, the other did the rough in and I couldn't begin to explain why it was ok'd to cover the walls but I did check and both phases were inspected and passed by the state and both were completed by "master" electricians. The fact that someone is licensed or certified doesn't is worth almost as much as a thimblefull of horse ****.

California doesnt even have a master license or a journeyman license. instead we have a c-10 license and a journeyman certification. we also have ETs- electrical trainees which are registered with the state and have to work under the supervision of a journeyman

ANYONE working for a C10 must be either a certified journeyman OR a registered ET.

 

[sparky 1971]

California doesnt even have a master license or a journeyman license. instead we have a c-10 license and a journeyman certification. we also have ETs- electrical trainees which are registered with the state and have to work under the supervision of a journeyman

ANYONE working for a C10 must be either a certified journeyman OR a registered ET.

Your C10 is probably the same as our contractors license; all it means is that we have insurance and have made a ransom payment to two different state entities. The journeymans and masters license is nothing more than a reward for passing a test as well as having enough documented hours of work experience, 8000 hours for the journeymans and a specified number of hours that I can't remember as a journeyman for the masters. I don't know about now, but when I took the masters test in 2009, it was the same as the journeymans with an additional 10 questions, so, in theory, one could miss every one of the extra questions and still be a licensed master. We also have a class B for both, that was a one time take it or leave it chance for guys that had been doing work in rural areas with no city license when the state took over licensing back in 2007. I think we also have something similar for the trainee or apprentice, but I don't know anything about it, I wore those shoes way before it was a thing.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Your C10 is probably the same as our contractors license; all it means is that we have insurance and have made a ransom payment to two different state entities. The journeymans and masters license is nothing more than a reward for passing a test as well as having enough documented hours of work experience, 8000 hours for the journeymans and a specified number of hours that I can't remember as a journeyman for the masters. I don't know about now, but when I took the masters test in 2009, it was the same as the journeymans with an additional 10 questions, so, in theory, one could miss every one of the extra questions and still be a licensed master. We also have a class B for both, that was a one time take it or leave it chance for guys that had been doing work in rural areas with no city license when the state took over licensing back in 2007. I think we also have something similar for the trainee or apprentice, but I don't know anything about it, I wore those shoes way before it was a thing.

lot more complicated than that here.

in order to be eligible for the C10 test you have to work as a certified journeyman for 4+ yrs. you have to get people familiar with your work to sign off on it..... and in order to be eligible to sit for the journeyman cert test, you have to work 8,000 hrs as a registered ET. and in order to be eligible for an ET card you have to register with a state approved school and take classes while working

its a huge pain in the *** and has created a massive shortage of electricians in the state.

you can thank the IBEW unions and arnold Schwarzenegger when he was governor

 

[alfredeneuman]

I got my CA journeyman's card in 1999 when it was first mandated (37th to take the test). It was more difficult IMO than the test for my C-10 electrical license. I have always been non-union.
Due to the forum rules I can't say anything bad about unions.
Schwarzenegger didn't hold office until 2003.

 

[dcg9381]

My friend who's a home owner is getting close to the end of his home being renovated which included a lot electrical work. When he asked who the licensed electrican was, and when he was coming to inspect the work (licensed person never came to the job site), he was told the licensed person is not needed to come onsite because the person doing the work is a "competent Electricain", and the "Certified Master Electrician has overseen his work for more than 5 years."

This doesn't sound right. Is there something in the NEC that states overwise? Anything he can ask for or do? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

That's how it works here. If you need an electrical permit, you need a contract with a "licensed electrician" or contractor that employs a licensed electrician. Who does the work doesn't matter. It can be a dyslexic 12-year old from Russia.

But the licensed electrician is responsible for the work. Hopefully your friend is getting a rough in and final electrical inspection, but the value of those inspections directly depend on the knowledge of the inspector and many areas with small populations have all-in-one inspectors.... I've seen electrical inspections where they don't even both to pop the cover of the breaker panel.

If you friend's "local" inspector isn't really good with electrical, the electrical inspection is minor, or there isn't one at all, I'd recommend paying for a "private" electrical inspection from someone that knows what they are doing... Seen a LOT of code misses that end up being costly later. Also go through EVERY SINGLE switch and item on the electrical plan as soon as the structure is functional - this is something the basic home owner can do. Once the final check is cut, the chances of getting them back to fix something goes way down...

Some of the toughest (and most valuable) inspections I've seen are here... Just post up a photo of the open panels and these guys will are great at pointing out what's wrong and referencing code.

 

[sparky 1971]

lot more complicated than that here.

in order to be eligible for the C10 test you have to work as a certified journeyman for 4+ yrs. you have to get people familiar with your work to sign off on it....

Your C10 is probably a combination of our contractors and masters licenses, but the guy with the contractors doesn't need to be the guy with the masters but neither one is any good without the other. We have a waiting period as a journeyman before getting a masters, I don't how long though, I got my journeymans in 1997 and had plenty of time in before getting the masters in 2009.

and in order to be eligible to sit for the journeyman cert test, you have to work 8,000 hrs as a registered ET.

Same here unless you're an IBEW apprentice, then it's 10,000 hours before they recognize you. I will admit to getting a Dallas, TX journeymans license without the 8,000 hours even though it was a "requirement". I had a residential license and was running work, had passed the journeymans exam, but only had about 5,000 hours in. One long weekend, I came back to IA to visit, and my dad thought that my situation was a load of ****. He was an attorney, so about a week later an affidavit showed up in my mail saying that I had plenty of documented hours in so I got my license. When I moved back to IA, I was already a licensed journeyman in another state, so even though it didn't reciprocate, by then I had amassed plenty of hours, I didn't have to prove anything, just take another test.

and in order to be eligible for an ET card you have to register with a state approved school and take classes while working

I can't say for sure if that's the case here, I didn't go through an apprenticeship, but things have probably changed since 1994. I don't keep up with the regulations, I only have to worry about me.

its a huge pain in the *** and has created a massive shortage of electricians in the state.

you can thank the IBEW unions and arnold Schwarzenegger when he was governor

 

[magic_garage]

Wow, very interesting but I see how it works now. Really appreciate the info everyone.

 

[75gmck25]

As a homeowner I was allowed to pull a permit and do all the electrical myself. AFAIK I did it all according to current code, but based on the relatively quick electrical inspection (inspector also covered gas and plumbing) I think I would have needed to do something really dumb to have failed the electrical. One factor may have been the inspector's assumption that I would not want to make my own house unsafe.

For plumbing and gas I also had pressure gauges installed and inflatable plugs in the DWV pipes to verify there no leaks, and I don't think the inspector even looked at most of it.

 

[Skooterj]

In most of Indiana, there is no such thing as a "Licensed Electrician". Some of the counties and larger cities have a local licensing requirement, but there is no state wide requirements. In my county, there is no requirement at all. And if you have one of the local licenses, it is recognized in the other areas that require one, even though the requirements to get one may be different(and easier) in certain localities. Same with HVAC.

Plumbers on the other hand require a 4 year apprenticeship...

Well drillers need 3 letters of recommendation and to pass a test.

 

[mike93lx]

Well drillers need 3 letters of recommendation

What an absurd requirement. Its like applying to a competitive band camp

You think they have good stories, too?