CFL conversion to LED

[texasman]

I have 6 (2) bulb fixtures from Lowes probably 7 years old and also a (4) bulb fixture from Lowes same age. I tried using Philips LED from Lowes and wouldn't light up. Tried installing both ways with no change. Is there such a bulb I can use without having to mess with the ballasts. Looking for 6500K in color. Trying to avoid replacing all the fixtures since I have so many. Thank you for any help. Im in the middle of remodeling the garage myself and I can see this group is going to help a lot with questions and ideas I wouldn't of thought of.

 

[dogdog]

In my experience, it dependents on how your fixture wires it's ballast (age, state of it, and configuration)...I had 3 that have some weird configuration (it had two ballast) and two of the three tubes would not lite when I tried with direct replacements..... so I went with dual end ballast bypass... easy to do.. IMO... minimum skills needed. It's very simple to do... but of cause YMMV on your level of comfortable working with electrical stuff...

Basically just open up the fixture access to the ballast... cut the wires to the ballast.. and hook up the hot and neutral to each end of the lamp holder...replace back the covers that is about it. about 45 minutes for the first one for me... and the other 2 took about 15 minutes...

 

[BillK]

To me it makes no sense to switch to LED but keep the ballasts. That decreases the efficiency. You might as well just buy 16 new fluorescent bulbs for what you have now.

It only takes about 15 minutes to open the fixture and yank the ballast out and rewire it for the direct drive leds.

 

[Innovate1]

To me it makes no sense to switch to LED but keep the ballasts. That decreases the efficiency. You might as well just buy 16 new fluorescent bulbs for what you have now.

It only takes about 15 minutes to open the fixture and yank the ballast out and rewire it for the direct drive leds.

I agree. If the ballast is left in circuit it requires the ballast to be good. Best to bypass the ballast.

 

[Showkey]

To me it makes no sense to switch to LED but keep the ballasts. That decreases the efficiency. You might as well just buy 16 new fluorescent bulbs for what you have now.

It only takes about 15 minutes to open the fixture and yank the ballast out and rewire it for the direct drive leds.

This has been discussed dozens of times prior.........the drop in LED conversion with ballast still wired in has little to no effect efficiency.

There are many tests that show LED drop in bulbs vs T8 provided 50% increase in LUX to the work surface with a 30% reduction in power used.

 

[u2slow]

I agree. If the ballast is left in circuit it requires the ballast to be good. Best to bypass the ballast.

I agree too. No sense in being roped into using a ballast that will also die and need replacing.

It wasn't long ago that I was replacing the little PL9/13 lamp sockets & ballasts with conventional sockets to use screw-in CFLs.

 

[BillK]

This has been discussed dozens of times prior.........the drop in LED conversion with ballast still wired in has little to no effect efficiency.

Even if that is true, what happens when the ballasts start to fail ?? (and you know they will) Then you have to either buy new ballasts or new bulbs that will work without them. Still makes no sense to me financially.

 

[cybrdyke]

texasman- your title says cfl which stands for compact fluorescent lamps. Is that what we're discussing here?
CD

 

[redidbull]

I work at Lowe's in the electrical dept. People come in often looking to upgrade to LEDs from florescent. I did some research and it is not cast in stone if it will work. Depending on the age of the fixture. Research showed sometimes you need to rewire the ballast. Sometimes you need to remove it. Just putting the bulbs in wont work on the older non electronic ballasts and may or may not work with newer electronic ones. Look at you bulbs and inside the fixture and do a google search with the ballast# and the bulb#. You should be able to find a schematic. Jim

 

[u2slow]

Is there such a bulb I can use without having to mess with the ballasts. Looking for 6500K in color. Trying to avoid replacing all the fixtures since I have so many.

The lighting wholesalers call the lamps a "ballast bypass" type. They run on basic 120V AC. Retail stores may not stock them out of principle - they'd rather sell you a whole LED fixture.

The way to not have to "mess with the ballasts" is to remove them entirely.

 

[dogdog]

I work at Lowe's in the electrical dept. People come in often looking to upgrade to LEDs from florescent. I did some research and it is not cast in stone if it will work. Depending on the age of the fixture. Research showed sometimes you need to rewire the ballast. Sometimes you need to remove it. Just putting the bulbs in wont work on the older non electronic ballasts and may or may not work with newer electronic ones. Look at you bulbs and inside the fixture and do a google search with the ballast# and the bulb#. You should be able to find a schematic. Jim

I believe Lowes stores doesn't sell ballast bypass or dual power LED T8s... only ballast ones...

 

[Platonic Solid]

texasman- your title says cfl which stands for compact fluorescent lamps. Is that what we're discussing here?
CD

I got the same feeling - That the OP is really talking about standard 4ft T8 bulbs.

 

[dogdog]

a lot of people including me use CFL synonymous for anything fluorescent lights thinggy most of the times... .... I just go ask I needed the CFL tubes this long... when I go to the store lol.....and most of the time I got answer like, can you bring the old one in?

 

[AntonLargiader]

I’ve never heard people use CFL for anything but CFL, which are fundamentally different than fluorescent tubes.

 

[75gmck25]

A couple weeks ago I "repaired" two dual 4 foot flourescent tube fixtures with ballast bypass kits from Home Depot. Each kit was $20 for two LED tubes with replacement tombstones, so $40 for two fixtures.

I just cut wires to the old ballast and removed it, and wired the live end of the new tombstone to the black and white wires. The new tombstone on the other end is passive, and just serves to connect the terminals of the LED tube. It took me about 10 minutes for the first light because I had to figure out how to replace the old tombstones, but the 2nd light was a 5 minute job. Just ensure you look at the markings on the end of the LED tube and connect the right end to the 120 volt power.

Bruce

 

[texasman]

Sorry yes I am referring to 4Ft fixtures. Sorry for the confusion. Seems like my best bet is just cut the ballasts and wire directly. Was hoping I didnt need to do that but these fixtures are pretty old.

 

[Showkey]

This whole conversion thing .........it’s all about quality of the bulbs ( drop in or Kit) ........vs buying a entire new fixture with known decent specs and reputation/warranty.

While the prices have dropped so has the quality both in output and longevity. There are replacement bulbs for .99 to $12........so it’s buyer beware !!!!

Sure hope the $20 kit has decent specs...........because others report complete two fixture twin packs are often on sale for $40.00

 

[u2slow]

FWIW, I prefer old fixtures. Usually made with thicker metal. Same with baseboard heaters. They can be painted up to look like new.

Probably have more options if you leave the 'kit' format too. Maybe find some bright enough that one tube is as bright (or brighter) than two old/stale 'econo-watt' T12's.

 

[Innovate1]

This has been discussed dozens of times prior.........the drop in LED conversion with ballast still wired in has little to no effect efficiency.

There are many tests that show LED drop in bulbs vs T8 provided 50% increase in LUX to the work surface with a 30% reduction in power used.

Care to link to some actual data on that first part? It's easy to say but I question it. The ballast consumes some power. Here's one link I found with a quick search that says the ballast consumes up to 25% more power than when bypassed.

https://www.eledlights.com/blog/post/frequently-asked-questions-about-converting-to-led-tubes-from-fluorescents/#q1

 

[tfi racing]

Care to link to some actual data on that first part? It's easy to say but I question it. The ballast consumes some power. Here's one link I found with a quick search that says the ballast consumes up to 25% more power than when bypassed.

https://www.eledlights.com/blog/post/frequently-asked-questions-about-converting-to-led-tubes-from-fluorescents/#q1

Here is some to digest, readings taken in my own garage. Remove T8 flourescent and replace with Phillips LED lamps,ballasts left as is.Yes, ballast bypass lamps will use less power than than their ballasted counterparts, but just switching out the lamps will shave some kw/h off that power bill.If I had time I would wire up a fixture and compare the draw of ballast bypass vs instant fit replacement lamps.

 

[PassnThru]

Only one person mentioned the tombstone so let's reiterate that in a bypass situation you may have to replace your tombstones also. If you buy single end powered bulbs then the tombstone has to be non-shunted. If your current tombstones are shunted then you will have a problem. I'm not sure if that is the case on bulbs that are dual end powered.

 

[cybrdyke]

Care to link to some actual data on that first part? It's easy to say but I question it. The ballast consumes some power.

Picking a random example from this data. Look at part number 470120. This is a 14w (bare lamp figure), 2100 lumen, 5000K, ballasted tube. The data shows you that when operated on a "normal" ballast, the combined consumption of the ballast + the lamp is 17 watts. So the ballast adds 3 watts. It also shows you that the lamp output is 2100 lumens on the "normal" ballast. So, no loss of lumens, and only 3 additional watts.
https://images.philips.com/is/content/PhilipsConsumer/PDFDownloads/United%20States/ODLI20190610-01-UPD-en-US-PLt-1309BN-LED-T8-June-2019.pdf
Compare that to their ballast bypass tubes listed here: https://images.philips.com/is/content/PhilipsConsumer/PDFDownloads/United%20States/ODLI20190610-01-UPD-en-US-PLt-1309BN-LED-T8-June-2019.pdf The comparable tube in lumen output is 47177-1. It is also 2100 lumens, with no ballast, and consumes 17 watts.
So, you see, in this case, the two different products, one with a ballast and one without, use the same amount of watts and deliver the same amount of lumens.
Now, in all fairness, there are many many different manufacturers out there. Philips is only one of them, albeit a very large one. It is easy to find examples where the figures are different and where one type of tube or another will come out on top.
But the overall premise that a bypass tube will perform so much better than a ballasted tube + the ballast is simply not true.
CD

 

[cybrdyke]

I'm not sure if that is the case on bulbs that are dual end powered.

It' not. Double end tubes work on either type of socket. And that's the reason that they are outselling the single end tubes by a mile.
CD

 

[u2slow]

Only one person mentioned the tombstone so let's reiterate that in a bypass situation you may have to replace your tombstones also. If you buy single end powered bulbs then the tombstone has to be non-shunted. If your current tombstones are shunted then you will have a problem. I'm not sure if that is the case on bulbs that are dual end powered.

Undo the shunt. Its a jumper wire.

Did the very last of the electronic T8 fixtures start using internally shunted tombstones?

 

[dogdog]

some are un-do-able, you'll have to cut some brass / copper links and solder your own leads out... but when you decided to go ballast by-pass.. you will have to choose between the two standard... single end power or dual end power...

when I did mine, my hyperkon tubes are dual end power with ballast or ballast bypass compatible... now a days you can't find that (dual powered) option any more... either case I choose dual end power, ballast bypass as my setup... so you don't needed new tombstones, unless they are bad to begin with.

 

[James-W]

I am using 12 of the 100 watt CFL's in my garage, I think the package says they actually use 34 watts each but they are supposedly equal in light output to a 100 watt incandescent bulb. I have only had one CFL failure in 8 years which I think it quite good. If I want, I could buy LED screw in lights which would draw even less wattage for the same light output.

I realize most people prefer the tubes and I respect that. But as for myself, I am more than happy with the screw in CFL lights I have and I would recommend them for the simple reason that if at some point in the future you want to replace them with LED lights it is a simple matter to unscrew the CFL and screw in a LED light.

 

[jdmvette]

I did a recent CFL to LED conversion so in my experience, kill the ballasts with fire

 

[Innovate1]

Changing the tombstones usually isn't a big deal. They are pretty standard size. My bulbs came with a note I could call for free tombstones if I needed to change them out. As I recall I only had to change 1 out of quite a few I switched bulbs in.

As others have noted a straight tube is not a CFL. A CFL to LED conversion is pretty simple - unscrew CFL, screw in LED bulb. Done!

 

[cybrdyke]

Did the very last of the electronic T8 fixtures start using internally shunted tombstones?

Nearly all T8 fixtures for the last 20 years have used internally shunted sockets.

... now a days you can't find that (dual powered) option any more... either case I choose dual end power, ballast bypass as my setup... so you don't needed new tombstones, unless they are bad to begin with.

Dual source tubes are very common still. In fact, there are more choices now than ever before.

CD

 

[Platonic Solid]

Looking at the James Industries universal ballast compatible/bypass lamp spec sheet (link) you see:

Direct powered (bypass) = 18W 2520 Lm = 140 L/W

Ballast compatible w/Normal ballast factor = 21.5W 2680 Lm = 125 L/W

 

[u2slow]

Nearly all T8 fixtures for the last 20 years have used internally shunted sockets.

Strange. I have yet to come across any internally shunted tombstones. Always a wire jumper. Including brand new T8 fixtures I bought last year. Must vary by manufacturer or region.

 

[cybrdyke]

Strange. I have yet to come across any internally shunted tombstones. Always a wire jumper. Including brand new T8 fixtures I bought last year. Must vary by manufacturer or region.

Do you mean the jumper between the sockets? There is a jumper wire between the sockets, usually one one end of the tube (red) in a 2 lamp fixture, (yellow) in a 4 lamp fixture. This doesn't mean that the sockets are shunted or non-shunted, though.
CD

 

[u2slow]

Do you mean the jumper between the sockets? There is a jumper wire between the sockets, usually one one end of the tube (red) in a 2 lamp fixture, (yellow) in a 4 lamp fixture. This doesn't mean that the sockets are shunted or non-shunted, though.
CD

Jumpered contacts on same socket/tombstone, so both pin contatcs become common, i.e. shunted. I've only read about internal-shunt tombstones on the Internet.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Trying to avoid replacing all the fixtures since I have so many.

7 fixture is not "a lot", especially if you can use plain 2 bulb fixtures. These commonly sell for between $20-$30.

 

[cybrdyke]

Jumpered contacts on same socket/tombstone, so both pin contatcs become common, i.e. shunted. I've only read about internal-shunt tombstones on the Internet.

Interesting. There's millions of them out there.
CD