CFL wattage

[bdog]

I took the ideas from Veno's thread and am going to light my 50x50x14 shop with CFL's. I am currently mounting the sockets. There will be a total of 20 lights. There are 5 rows of lights spaced 10' apart on the purlins and the lights are 12.5' apart on the purlins with the end lights 6' from the wall.

As a temporary measure while working in there doing the wiring I have been installing 75 watt incandescents as I go that say 830 lumens on the box. While this is not as biright as I want it I am rather impressed at the amount of light from just these 830 lumen bulbs.

I was originally going to go with the 105 watt CFLs putting out 6200 lumens but now I am thinking maybe of going with a 65 or 85 watt CFL.

The 65 watt units put out 4000 lumens. This would be roughly five times the light I am looking at now with the 75 watters and it would consume about 60% of the electricty of the 105 watt bulbs. There would also be a savings of about $200 on the bulbs.

I will use the shop for my business and expect to be out there a lot. 40 hours a week. I figure $12.60 a week to power the 105 watters and $7.80 a week with the 65 watters. The 65 watt bulbs would save about $250 a year in electricty and the $200 up front. Not a huge amount and not worth it if the whole time in there you are unhappy about the light but if the smaller bulbs are sufficient why not save $450 the first year and then $250 a year on out.


I know the old saying of you can never have enough light but what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Teken]

Your line of thought is dead on . . . I would ask you to also demo other brands of CFL's that are out there. Some with the exact same power output say 100 watts, consuming 23 watts actual power. Some I have found produce a whiter light, and this gives the user a perceived brighter surroundings.

I have some 100 watt bulbs, which consume 23 watts actual, but have a 3500 kelvin light out put. They are called *day light* bulbs. In a room that normally requires 4 bulbs I can just have one bulb in place. The savings are tremendous, so I have opted to use their other lower wattage bulbs where normally you would require a 100 watt bulb and placed a 60 watt bulb, which consumes only 12 watts, but has the light out put of 3000 kelvins . . .

They are super cheap at Costco right now, a 10 pack for only $6.00 for the 60 watts, and $8.50 for the 8 pack that produces 100 watts.

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You cannot have too much light, especially if this is going to be a business, you don't want to be dragging around extra lighting, floodlights, etc, because you put bulbs in that are not bright enough.

I assume it will be a fairly high ceiling, and access in the future may be difficult, that is also a consideration.

Bigger and brighter is better.

Charles

 

[bookman51]

Yes, keep us posted on how it works. I have a 72 x 40 shop I want light but have been waiting on warmer weather. How did you do the calculations (or did you do by seat of the pants) do come up with this arrangement? I am very interested to see how it works out. Are you in a cold weather part of the country?

Bookman

 

[bdog]

I did not do any calculations. I mainly went off of Veno's thread and got ideas from it. He went with 16 bulbs in a 40 x 50 so I figured add one more row and go with 20 bulbs in a 50 x 50. I am still wiring it up but will post up when done. I am in the the Texas Panhandle. It gets fairly cold here, but not like Nebraska. Lows in the twenties and high teens are common but very rarelly below zero.

I was at lowes last night and picked up some 1600 lumen incandescents for $2 for an 8 pack. Once I get all the wiring done I am going to put those in and try it out. That should be roughly double the lumesn I have now with the 75 watt. This will allow me to see the effect of doubling the lumens.

 

[bookman51]

bdog, Thanks. I do have a CFL out in my car garage and one in the shop, and they have performed well this winter, and we have had temperatures below zero here in Nebraska. I used to live north of Dallas, and you seemed to get lot worse weather in the panhandle than the Sherman, Texas area.

Anyway, the CLFs do come on just a shade after the regular light and taken a few minutes to get up to full light, but nothing I cannot live with. The other factor is weather cold affects their life. I will be putting them 14 feet up, so do not want to be changing them out often. I might put in several switches so I can turn on more or fewer lights depending on light I need and the area I need it in.

Anyway, keep us posted and good luck with the wiring.

Bookman

 

[Flathead Youngin']

i put two cfl's as porch lights (no rain at all) and they didn't last a month...maybe it was the brand.......same brand, however, has lasted a long time in the house...

keep us posted, i'm curious about it too...

 

[Mr_fixit]

Your line of thought is dead on . . . I would ask you to also demo other brands of CFL's that are out there. Some with the exact same power output say 100 watts, consuming 23 watts actual power. Some I have found produce a whiter light, and this gives the user a perceived brighter surroundings.

I have some 100 watt bulbs, which consume 23 watts actual, but have a 3500 kelvin light out put. They are called *day light* bulbs. In a room that normally requires 4 bulbs I can just have one bulb in place. The savings are tremendous, so I have opted to use their other lower wattage bulbs where normally you would require a 100 watt bulb and placed a 60 watt bulb, which consumes only 12 watts, but has the light out put of 3000 kelvins . . .
:

A 3500 KELVIN BULB is not consdered a day light bulb, but a warm white bulb... You have your numbers mixed up...

 

[belvedere]

I installed CFLs in my 28x48 garage. There are 21 bulbs (3 rows of 7). I used 23W (100W equivalent) bulbs.

My only concern was cold temperature performance. I thought that if need be, I could put in some incandescents in the winter. I have switched them on at temps of -10F, and they all come on (may take them a few seconds, but they come on!). I am very happy with them.

 

[Teken]

4000K is considered cool white, 5000K is considered as day light. 3500K is called white, or bright white if you wish to get technical.

As for what the maker has indicated, they brand them as *day light* and I can attest that they are blinding white.

 

[bdog]

No pictures yet but I wanted to clarify that the CFLs I am considering are actual 65, 85, and 105 watt. These are not their incandescent equivalents. I think they are 250, 350, and 500 watt equivalents. These are not bulbs you find at home depot they have to be special ordered and are around $15 -$25 each and they measure a foot long.

 

[Flathead Youngin']

i was sure wondering how a 23watt bulb put out that kind of lumen.......

i could do a search but i'd like to see what you are looking at....could you post a link?

edit:

hmmm you've got me curious now, after i did some searching...

wonder how these would work in a cold storage area of a pole barn....are they more efficient than, say, equal lumen metal halide?
http://www.buylighting.com/z-Reflector-for-High-Wattage-Compact-Fluorescent-p/fe-r100-ur.htm

No pictures yet but I wanted to clarify that the CFLs I am considering are actual 65, 85, and 105 watt. These are not their incandescent equivalents. I think they are 250, 350, and 500 watt equivalents. These are not bulbs you find at home depot they have to be special ordered and are around $15 -$25 each and they measure a foot long.

 

[AZ Garage]

You really should have a lighting study done...

It takes into account the dimensions, wall color, reflective surfaces, etc...

As a general rule we tend to use 40-50 FCs for shop/manufacturing areas, depending on what exactly is being done.

 

[bookman51]

AZ Garage, And who does light studies and what do they cost? I keep looking for some type of calculator on the Internet that would help me figure out how much light I need and will get with different configuration, figuring in height of light (14 feet up) etc. and not much luck. Maybe you can point me in the right direction.

Bookman

 

[Goobzilla]

I put 10 105W 5000K CFL lights w/ reflectors in my 40x64x12. 6900 lumens ea plenty of light in my windowless building.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/105-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent/31295/

 

[vtx531]

I put 10 105W 5000K CFL lights w/ reflectors in my 40x64x12. 6900 lumens ea plenty of light in my windowless building.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/105-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent/31295/

Wow that's expensive! Why would you do this as opposed to more quantity of cheaper CFLs or the tradition fluorescent lights?

 

[Teken]

That is blinding . . .

 

[Stuart in MN]

Wow that's expensive! Why would you do this as opposed to more quantity of cheaper CFLs or the tradition fluorescent lights?

Adding more fixtures, along with the additional wiring required, may end up costing more than simply buying new lamps and screwing them into the existing fixtures.

 

[jvitez]

Wow that's expensive! Why would you do this as opposed to more quantity of cheaper CFLs or the tradition fluorescent lights?

He's planning 20 fixtures using 6200 lumen lamps per fixture. That's a gross of 124,000 lumens. Using 23W CFL's producing 1600 lumens per lamp, he would need 77.5 fixtures.

 

[jimmie jam]

i just finished my 600 sf addition to the garage with 13' ceiling. i have 3 rows of 3 fixtures evenly spaced, double switched. had them put in the cheap ceramics so that i could get the final electrical on a temp. basis. then i noticed the 60W CFL daylight bulbs at Costco and got a pack . i have ALL the light i need and want with these bulbs . i'm leaving these in for now. no need to spend anymore $. they work well for me and, i could leave them on all day as 9 of them = 126W draw.

i have to add that the walls are stuccoed and not painted white yet. ceiliing is white.

 

[burleymike]

One thing to keep in mind is most of the lumen ratings on CFLs are the initial lumens. Over time CFLs like most gas discharge lamps suffer from lumen depreciation. It is best to base your calculations on the average or mean lumens of a lamp.

 

[Teken]

i just finished my 600 sf addition to the garage with 13' ceiling. i have 3 rows of 3 fixtures evenly spaced, double switched. had them put in the cheap ceramics so that i could get the final electrical on a temp. basis. then i noticed the 60W CFL daylight bulbs at Costco and got a pack . i have ALL the light i need and want with these bulbs . i'm leaving these in for now. no need to spend anymore $. they work well for me and, i could leave them on all day as 9 of them = 126W draw.

i have to add that the walls are stuccoed and not painted white yet. ceiliing is white.

Yup, like I said those bulbs at Costco may not fall in the specs as defined as day light. But, I can tell you with actual use they put out allot of light, and that's just the 60 watt one for $6.00.

The 100 watt out put, 23 watt consumed unit puts out even more for $9.** for a pack of ten!

BTW: They also have a 150 watt unit that comes in a six pack, going for about $12.**, actual power consumption is rated as 32-35 watts.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I put 10 105W 5000K CFL lights w/ reflectors in my 40x64x12. 6900 lumens ea plenty of light in my windowless building.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/105-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent/31295/

Wow that's expensive! Why would you do this as opposed to more quantity of cheaper CFLs or the tradition fluorescent lights?

Installation is easy, a 4 inch square box with a porcelain keyless socket mounted to it and you are done. Fixtures cost money, then count on one or two out of ten or twelve to have ballast that don't work or fail early on. With the CFL, the "ballast" gets changed every time the bulb is changed, and no fixtures or ballast to worry with.

There is alot to be said for going this route.

Charles

 

[klogan121]

Some people complain about warm-up time with CFL's, but with the energy cost savings those suckers provide, I'll wait!! 12 100W CFL's in my 24 X 40
works for me!

 

[Pac-Man]

I put up GE CFL's I bought at Sams Club and replaced every bulb in my house and garage, 99 bulbs in all... I had built a new home and at the end of year one the incandescent bulbs started going bad one at a time, so I figured it was a good time to jump to CFL lights so I don't have to replace bulbs every year!
The GE's I put up were a combination of the curly que ones, covered ones (look like normal bulbs), and flood light bulbs for recessed fixtures.
I must say in every case the amount of light (lumens) was much brighter than the incandescent bulbs and there is very little heat put off by the CFL bulbs.
In the garage I replaced the door opener bulbs with CFL and was also able to replace the outside light fixture bulbs with CLF. In the MN winter's the bulbs put off a bit less light and take a bit longer to reach maximum brightness outside, but they still work well and I don't sweat if the kids or wife forget to turn them off at night.

 

[Teken]

99 bulbs???

 

[Pac-Man]

Yeah I actually had to put my list of CFL bulbs into a spreadsheet to count them (not enough fingers and toes), it's a three story home with 5 bedroom and 3.5 baths and something like 19 total rooms; it was sort of a dream home for us.

While I had the spreadsheet open I calculated the amount I'll save over the lifetime of the bulbs and was shocked at current electric prices I'll save $3,500 over the course of the 8,000 hour bulb life versus incandescent bulbs!

Installing the 99 CFL bulbs also reduced the overall lighting wattage across the home by 341%! I can't remember now but there was a huge number in reduced carbon emissions from the lower energy use also.

 

[Teken]