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Chainsaw Questions- 80V Greenworks

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Greatwhitewing

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Greenworks 80V 18". Never owned a chainsaw prior so took the time to make sure chain tension was set right based on manual and reputable YT videos using a good quality synthetic oil.
Go to cutting 2-5" branches and trunks sometimes getting smaller twigs etc. Starts out cutting great but very soon (5-10 minutes) starts smoking like Cheech and Chong and bar gets very hot even after a tension check a few minutes into use. Been through 4 chains with links sometimes seized up from the heat.
Every test for oil pump operation shows oil flowing well with or without bar/chain on. With a new chain I check tension frequently knowing they stretch and yes I check tooth orientation and that the chain can be moved by hand smoothly.

Is the port on the bar from oil input to the slot for the chain clogged even though I have cleaned it frequently? Seems like way too much fussing to cutting ratio.

I do have a new bar and set of chains ordered.
 
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mcj115

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As a starting point....fill the saw with bar oil. Get a large piece of cardboard. Point the tip of the saw towards the cardboard and run the saw for ~30 seconds. Is there a line on the cardboard from the bar oil? No line of oil on the cardboard mean you have a problem. If you have a line of oil then you need to look what/how you are cutting.
 
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ericm

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The classic test for sufficient oil is to rev the saw with the bar end pointed at something that will show oil drops. You should see some being flung off the chain.

Either the bar's not getting oil or the chain is too tight or both. If you remove the chain from the bar there should be oil on the chain. You can feel if its bone dry.

I like the chain loose enough to show 1/3 or so of the driver (the triangular-ish tooth looking part of the chain that's below the side plates) shows when you pull up on the chain in the center of the bar. Another measure is to be just loose enough to rotate freely. All when cold. The chain lengthens when it gets hot. I usually don't tighten the chain when it's hot unless it's a really long bar like 32", or I messed up the tension. You have to be careful to not tighten it too much when hot because it will shrink when it cools and that can damage the engine/motor bearings.

Rotate the chain some by hand after setting tension. Sometimes, depending on the saw, things are not exactly seated and you can sometimes get more slack. Better to find that by hand than when it's cutting as a too loose chain can derail and damage the saw.

You can test the oil pump by mounting the bar with the chain and cover off (may need different nuts) and running the saw to check for oil coming out the slot in the bar.

I hope that you're wearing chaps, steel toe boots, hand and eye and hearing protection. The book "To Fell A Tree" is super useful for all aspect of tree handling.
 
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Greatwhitewing

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mcj115 said:
As a starting point....fill the saw with bar oil. Get a large piece of cardboard. Point the tip of the saw towards the cardboard and run the saw for ~30 seconds. Is there a line on the cardboard from the bar oil? No line of oil on the cardboard mean you have a problem. If you have a line of oil then you need to look what/how you are cutting.
Click to expand...
I am getting the light line of oil on the "cardboard" but I used actual wood. That's why I said I was getting oil with the bar/chain on.

I am not a tree guy so maybe the tree itself? Since some branches are small maybe I have dipped into the dirt. Upon inspection of the bar I didn't see any ready evidence of damage from dirt grinding but perhaps that's the issue
 
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ericm

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Greatwhitewing said:
Yes, synthetic bar and chain oil.
Not keeping it completely out of the dirt. Hmmmm
Click to expand...

Hitting dirt pretty much instantly dulls the chain. A dull chain will run hot. But it will cut poorly before that. The chain should be producing decent size shavings. If they're really small or it's just sawdust, the chain is dull. If you have to push, the chain is dull. With a sharp chain you may use the dogs as leverage in a larger log but you should not have to force the chain to cut constantly.

Chains have hard chrome on the top of the tooth. That is the cutting edge. If you look closely at a new or sharp chain, you can see the hard chrome extends to the very tip of the tooth. When the chain is dull, the chrome is worn away from the cutting edge just a little and it's a slightly different color underneath.

When cutting logs on the ground (like into rounds for fire wood) I make my cuts part way through then turn the log over and finish the cuts from the other side. A cant hook or peavy (I prefer cant hook) make rolling larger logs much easier.

You should learn how to sharpen chains. I've done it a bazillion times and I learned pretty early how to do it freehand. I've tried most of the gadgets and they mostly don't work for me, or just make it take too long. Lately I use a simple flt plate guide that clips on the file. If you can sharpen a knife reasonably well with a stone, then you can sharpen a chain. It's just upside down and there's lots of edges.
 
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Greatwhitewing

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ericm said:
The classic test for sufficient oil is to rev the saw with the bar end pointed at something that will show oil drops. You should see some being flung off the chain.
Click to expand...

Performed that test and get the light oil spray
ericm said:
Either the bar's not getting oil or the chain is too tight or both. If you remove the chain from the bar there should be oil on the chain. You can feel if its bone dry.
Click to expand...

The chain seems to be oily unless it's been cooked
ericm said:
I like the chain loose enough to show 1/3 or so of the driver (the triangular-ish tooth looking part of the chain that's below the side plates) shows when you pull up on the chain in the center of the bar. Another measure is to be just loose enough to rotate freely. All when cold. The chain lengthens when it gets hot. I usually don't tighten the chain when it's hot unless it's a really long bar like 32", or I messed up the tension. You have to be careful to not tighten it too much when hot because it will shrink when it cools and that can damage the engine/motor bearings.
Click to expand...

Pretty much exactly how I set the tension
ericm said:
Rotate the chain some by hand after setting tension. Sometimes, depending on the saw, things are not exactly seated and you can sometimes get more slack. Better to find that by hand than when it's cutting as a too loose chain can derail and damage the saw.
Click to expand...

I have done that and checked tension after a few minutes of cutting. I usually need a small adjustment with a brand new chain
ericm said:
You can test the oil pump by mounting the bar with the chain and cover off (may need different nuts) and running the saw to check for oil coming out the slot in the bar.
Click to expand...

I haven't tested with only the bar on but sounds like a good test to try. Earlier today I did clean out a lot more gunk than expected from that area.
ericm said:
I hope that you're wearing chaps, steel toe boots, hand and eye and hearing protection. The book "To Fell A Tree" is super useful for all aspect of tree handling.
Click to expand...
Long pants, eye protection, sturdy shoes, gloves but the electric saw doesn't seem like hearing protection for the short cutting sessions is that big a deal. I wear hearing protection a lot more than I used to but this thing is pretty quiet compared to my thickness planer and lawn mower
 
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bluedog225

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Yep. I was taught dirt=instant death for chain.

better woodworkers than me will disagree, but those little diamond sharpeners on a cordless drill are pretty slick for quick sharpening.
 
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Greatwhitewing

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ericm said:
Hitting dirt pretty much instantly dulls the chain. A dull chain will run hot. But it will cut poorly before that. The chain should be producing decent size shavings. If they're really small or it's just sawdust, the chain is dull. If you have to push, the chain is dull. With a sharp chain you may use the dogs as leverage in a larger log but you should not have to force the chain to cut constantly.
Click to expand...

Seems to cut well pretty much up to the time I see smoke
ericm said:
Chains have hard chrome on the top of the tooth. That is the cutting edge. If you look closely at a new or sharp chain, you can see the hard chrome extends to the very tip of the tooth. When the chain is dull, the chrome is worn away from the cutting edge just a little and it's a slightly different color underneath.
Click to expand...

I have seen the discoloration but it looked like the temper was "annealed" away.
ericm said:
When cutting logs on the ground (like into rounds for fire wood) I make my cuts part way through then turn the log over and finish the cuts from the other side. A cant hook or peavy (I prefer cant hook) make rolling larger logs much easier.

You should learn how to sharpen chains. I've done it a bazillion times and I learned pretty early how to do it freehand. I've tried most of the gadgets and they mostly don't work for me, or just make it take too long. Lately I use a simple flt plate guide that clips on the file. If you can sharpen a knife reasonably well with a stone, then you can sharpen a chain. It's just upside down and there's lots of edges.
Click to expand...
I am considering sharpening but half of the chains have a link or two seized so sharpening won't help

I will keep my tip out of the dirt and see if that helps. Yea a little double entendre there
 
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Greatwhitewing

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bluedog225 said:
Yep. I was taught dirt=instant death for chain.

better woodworkers than me will disagree, but those little diamond sharpeners on a cordless drill are pretty slick for quick sharpening.
Click to expand...
I see dremel has a kit to sharpen chains. Have a better recommendation?
 
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mcj115

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Dirt does = dull chain in my experience but not total death, unless you keep running them hard after being dull. Maybe try soaking the chains in diesel/kerosene to see if the links may loosen and clean the chain. b


I like the Stihl 2 in 1 file guide. They are easy to keep in you pocket/saw tool kit and do a quick chain dressing in the field even as a new person to chainsaws.
 
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ericm

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Greatwhitewing said:
Long pants, eye protection, sturdy shoes, gloves but the electric saw doesn't seem like hearing protection for the short cutting sessions is that big a deal.
Click to expand...

Oh right I forgot it's electric. No need for hearing protection then. Mine are all gas so hearing protection is automatic. Chainsaws will cut right through regular pants and into your leg in an instant. The same with shoes that don't have steel toes. One of the guys on my crew in the forest service had the nicname "nine toes" due to a non work chainsaw incident. He was fortunate he only lost one. When a saw chews up a body part there's nothing to sew back on. There were a lot of retired chaps in the attic of the station house with cuts across them that would have been serious injuries if they hadn't been worn. Chaps and steel toe boots cost a lot less than a hospital trip.

Battery saws seem safer than gas but they're not. Arguably they're even more dangerous since the electric motor does not stall as easily as the gas one. Good chaps will stop them though.
 
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Greatwhitewing

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ericm said:
Oh right I forgot it's electric. No need for hearing protection then. Mine are all gas so hearing protection is automatic. Chainsaws will cut right through regular pants and into your leg in an instant. The same with shoes that don't have steel toes. One of the guys on my crew in the forest service had the nicname "nine toes" due to a non work chainsaw incident. He was fortunate he only lost one. When a saw chews up a body part there's nothing to sew back on. There were a lot of retired chaps in the attic of the station house with cuts across them that would have been serious injuries if they hadn't been worn. Chaps and steel toe boots cost a lot less than a hospital trip.

Battery saws seem safer than gas but they're not. Arguably they're even more dangerous since the electric motor does not stall as easily as the gas one. Good chaps will stop them though.
Click to expand...

Understood but I am just a homeowner that only cuts enough per week to fit in my 5-1/2 foot Taco bed. Once I cut enough for 4 loads but still was only 20 cuts on 4" max branches, mostly brush
 
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Greatwhitewing

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mcj115 said:
Dirt does = dull chain in my experience but not total death, unless you keep running them hard after being dull. Maybe try soaking the chains in diesel/kerosene to see if the links may loosen and clean the chain. b


I like the Stihl 2 in 1 file guide. They are easy to keep in you pocket/saw tool kit and do a quick chain dressing in the field even as a new person to chainsaws.
Click to expand...
I have tried soaking in bar/chain oil and then PB Blaster. After that gripped with two needle nose pliers to no avail. Price for a few chains is worth learning the lesson.
 
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DG930

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Greatwhitewing said:
I have tried soaking in bar/chain oil and then PB Blaster. After that gripped with two needle nose pliers to no avail. Price for a few chains is worth learning the lesson.
Click to expand...
If you have verified that things are sufficiently oiled and you're not way overloading a dull chain I would be wondering if my bar was bent.
 
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Mandres

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Something doesn't sound right. I've hit dirt plenty of times and it never results in a completely ruined bar or chain. It's got to be in the setup.

I would double check the bar mounting system against the manual to make sure it's installed correctly and nothing is bent. Are you sure the chain isn't backwards? Is the chain the correct gauge for the bar slot? I've always followed the "no sag, no drag" rule for chain tension.
 
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Greatwhitewing

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Firebrick43 said:
Or the bar was pinched due to improper technique and the groove has closed up on the drivers of the chain
Click to expand...
I have visually inspected the groove in the bar and no visible dents or pinching. I can measure it more accurately than a visual. I have lightly sanded the sliding surfaces with fine sandpaper.
I can freely move the chain on the bar without any indication something wrong but again my experience with chainsaws is limited but being a mechanical designer all my life I know a little bit
 
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PCustoms

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larry_g

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Greatwhitewing said:
Greenworks 80V 18". Never owned a chainsaw prior so took the time to make sure chain tension was set right based on manual and reputable YT videos using a good quality synthetic oil.
Go to cutting 2-5" branches and trunks sometimes getting smaller twigs etc. Starts out cutting great but very soon (5-10 minutes) starts smoking like Cheech and Chong and bar gets very hot even after a tension check a few minutes into use. Been through 4 chains with links sometimes seized up from the heat.
Every test for oil pump operation shows oil flowing well with or without bar/chain on. With a new chain I check tension frequently knowing they stretch and yes I check tooth orientation and that the chain can be moved by hand smoothly.

Is the port on the bar from oil input to the slot for the chain clogged even though I have cleaned it frequently? Seems like way too much fussing to cutting ratio.

I do have a new bar and set of chains ordered.
Click to expand...

After looking at your manual pg 35 figure 45 there are two holes above and below the mounting slot. These holes are the passage for the bar oil from the motor to the chain. Confirm that these are open and will pass oil from the hole to the chain slot. These can plug and cause the chain to overheat and gall to the bar. I also see that there is a window to the bar oil reservoir and it holds about 20 minutes of oil. Can you confirm that you are having to refill the oil ~ every 20 minutes or that it is consuming oil at all? On a gas saw the fuel and bar oil pretty much run out at the same time.

lg
 
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Greatwhitewing

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larry_g said:

After looking at your manual pg 35 figure 45 there are two holes above and below the mounting slot. These holes are the passage for the bar oil from the motor to the chain. Confirm that these are open and will pass oil from the hole to the chain slot. These can plug and cause the chain to overheat and gall to the bar. I also see that there is a window to the bar oil reservoir and it holds about 20 minutes of oil. Can you confirm that you are having to refill the oil ~ every 20 minutes or that it is consuming oil at all? On a gas saw the fuel and bar oil pretty much run out at the same time.

lg
Click to expand...
I have verified oil flows to the bar with and without a chain installed. I refilled oil once while there still some in the tank but I was a little surprised how much I needed to add. Hard for me to be precise but I would be surprised if I have a total of 30 minutes of chain actually moving. Certainly something check more frequently and thanks for that.
Beginning to be more convinced it was operator error by me getting the chain into dirt.
Have more cutting coming up soon and I'll keep my tool out of the dirty places.
 
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f121

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Clean the saw around the drive sprocket and clean the grove on the bar out. Check the oil holes are clear. Put a new chain on before your next cutting session. Top up the bar oil at least every battery change. Check tension after you’ve done a few cuts as a new chain will stretch. Check its oiling with the chain on.

Once you’ve done a few cuts (and kept it out the dirt) have a look at the teeth on the chain and see if they have lost their edge, they should have a sharp point and keep that for a good amount of cutting. Once they have lost their edge they’ll cause the bar chain and bar to get hotter, accelerating wear to both and increasing heat, which then accelerates wear more quickly.

Are you using branded or junk chains? I’ve seen some cheap chains are super soft which might not be helping, I generally stick with oem or Oregon. In 25 years of abusing saws, I’ve never had a link seize.

And get the right Ppe. Minimum of a helmet/visor, pants/chaps, boots. Boots are particularly important if you’re cutting weedy little stuff as there’s a decent chance you’ll want to hold it down with your foot while cutting. Chainsaw will go through a regular work boot quicker than you can say ‘anyone got a tourniquet?’
 
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PCustoms

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f121 said:
Are you using branded or junk chains? I’ve seen some cheap chains are super soft which might not be helping, I generally stick with oem or Oregon. In 25 years of abusing saws, I’ve never had a link seize.
Click to expand...

Greatwhitewing said:
I will try to get pics tomorrow. First chain of course was the one provided wit the saw. Replacements were these from AMZ below. Bar is the stock one that cam with the saw. No visible damage but I will measure flatness tomorrow with pics if I can.
Click to expand...
 
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Greatwhitewing

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Measured flatness of bar and it's within a few thousands of an inch over 18" length, no visible burrs or pinching in the track.
This is what I do for tension. that may be a tiny bit looser than last I adjusted for cutting last time but very close. This was assembled for the picture
1753882676965.png
 
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Steve_P

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Rinspeed said:
Last couple I bought were $50.
Click to expand...


No surprise. I made many hundreds of new Oregon brand chains in the 1980s and the average price then was ~$20; 40 years ago! Yeah, the tiny 14" pruning saw chain was maybe $13, but not much else was below $18. Typical saw was low $20s, big saws were upper $20s-low $30s. We had an Oregon book where you'd look up the price based on the number of teeth for the chain pitch. I think we charged $4 to sharpen a chain; same price no matter the size.

But, hey, maybe you can buy a decent made in China chain for $9 today, dunno.
 
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65ranchero

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To add to what was already said Get quality name brand chains
Like Oregon and there is another one which I can't remember.
I have a Sthil 16" homeowner saw and like you did the dirt ditch dunk.
Needed to replace the chain went to Amazon and was looking at the unnamed Asian 3 for $20 after reading reviews on Amazon and other sites they almost always trashed them.
So I just went ahead and bought a 3 pack of Sthil branded made in the EU and am very happy.
 
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PCustoms

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65ranchero said:
To add to what was already said Get quality name brand chains
Click to expand...

The only thing I'll add to this is use some caution on the Oregon chains.

I got a bad one last year (cut sideways out of the box) and later found some information that suggested they're now owned by a PE and quality may be changing.

I've got 2 more on the shelf, hoping that one was a fluke, but before I buy more I'll do a bit more research.
 
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