To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Challenger by proto

mowersplus84

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
184
I was on ebay looking at wrenches and noticed Challenger wrenches by proto
I was wondering anyone could give me a little insight on this it clear that they where a line produced by proto but when did they make them when did they stop.ect
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

kythri

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2007
Messages
6,330
Location
Lebanon, OR
Challenger was Proto's economy/cheaper line. I'm not exactly sure when they started or ceased production, but Alloy Artifacts shows them as early as 1951:

https://home.comcast.net/~alloy-artifacts/proto-empire.html

I seem to remember that Challenger was still being produced up into the 1980's, possibly a bit longer than that.

Blackhawk is now the label on Proto's economy line.
 

shanny19

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2014
Messages
1,209
Location
PNW
One local tool store had new production Challenger as late as 1998, I bought a set of combo wrenches then.
 

pauls_workshop

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
2,788
Location
Indiana, USA - Underappreciated Place to Live!
Challenger is good stuff. Blackhawk is really really good stuff and a much better deal than Proto for maybe 90% of the goodness. Proto of course is the best. I have some of each in different tools. There are different eras of all three, but the above holds since the 60's or so at least. Blackhawk was totally different before under Proto family umbrella. - Paul
 

RM209

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
892
Location
MD
Challenger is good stuff.

Agreed. I like Challenger because the tools are good quality, and the satin finish is a bit less slippery than high polish chrome tools.

RM209
 

03protege

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
3,104
Location
Louisiana
Challenger is good stuff. Blackhawk is really really good stuff and a much better deal than Proto for maybe 90% of the goodness. Proto of course is the best. I have some of each in different tools. There are different eras of all three, but the above holds since the 60's or so at least. Blackhawk was totally different before under Proto family umbrella. - Paul

Paul, Does Blackhawk has USA and Taiwanese lines like Williams does?

If so, can you help distinguish the model numbers?
 

pauls_workshop

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2013
Messages
2,788
Location
Indiana, USA - Underappreciated Place to Live!
Paul, Does Blackhawk has USA and Taiwanese lines like Williams does?

If so, can you help distinguish the model numbers?

Some Blackhawk now is Taiwan, that is for sure. Some is still US though. It used to all be US. There may be a way to tell by number, but I don't know that code. Someone else here could help though if it exists like Williams.

Also Taiwan Blackhawk is very good, like Taiwan Williams. Taiwan also is a democracy like the US, so I have little qualms about buying a Taiwan COO tool if that is who made somehting I need. I prefer US though always first when I can. I like 10-20-30-40 year old used US tools for cheap whenever possible. Blackhawk back in the 60's and 70's when owned by New Britain was top quality stuff too. I have a BH socket set from that era. New Britain rocked. - Paul
 

trainer

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2005
Messages
2,019
Location
Northern Ontario, Canada
attachment.php

I bought these in 1979 while I was still in high school. Absolutely no issues in 36 years.
 

MrSmiley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Messages
56
I bought a small Challenger 1/4" & 3/8" combo set in a zippered soft book case from a industrial shop in the early 90's. Amazingly complete set in a small package with very good chrome. The zippered case allowed the pieces to package much closer than a blow molded item although did not hold up well and the elastic socket holders gave up the ghost a long time ago. I'm possibly going to stick this in the Classifieds soon.
Motoretro

PM me if you do want to sell that set.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

stage20

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2013
Messages
3,722
Location
pcola FL
depending on what brand sockets your eyes are used to reading, the challengers can be difficult for me. they are excellent tools for the money. i wouldnt hesitate to buy. the wrenches are good pirces. near identical to the proto other than the satin finish, which to some is a good thing. the actual steel may be different.

i grab stuff whenever i see a deal on it.
 

nikonica

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
124
Location
Seattle
I have and use a few Challenger tools, along with mostly Proto and Blackhawk. Challenger tools were excellent. Not really tool polisher items, but good solid tools. Blackhawk have been good to me as well; I enjoy using them and they are a bargain. My long winded experience with late-production Challenger and what happened to the brand is described below. In my industry these mid-priced tools are more common than Proto or Wright. I'm no expert, just relaying what I know and what I think.

I have (somewhere) a Challenger catalog and price list from 1998, so they were produced at least until then. Around that time I bought a 3/8"-drive SAE standard and deep 12-point socket set in a red metal box, with a ratchet and two extensions, that I still have. I loved it when socket sets came in metal boxes or trays. The Challenger sockets and extensions from that era are the corporate Stanley sockets and extensions that were being sold or rebranded (as Stanley Professional, Husky, Jensen, Wilde, etc.) around that time, and the ratchet is identical to a couple Blackhawk USA ratchets that I purchased much more recently, around 2010.

Based on that Challenger catalog and a Proto catalog that I received at the same time, as well as my memory of Proto's website from back then, Stanley was marketing:

Proto as the heavy-duty, full line industrial tool brand
Challenger as the medium-duty, partial line industrial tool brand
Mac as the heavy-duty, full line automotive tool brand
Blackhawk as the medium-duty, partial line automotive tool brand

Evidently in the early 2000s, they dropped Challenger and moved Blackhawk into Challenger's former position under Proto, and Blackhawk is no longer promoted as an "automotive" brand. I'd imagine this is at least partly due to mom & pop parts stores largely disappearing and chain parts stores switching to their own, less expensive house brands.

It's interesting to me that all the Blackhawk sockets that I have that were produced under Stanley appear to be different from both the contemporary Challenger sockets and Proto sockets. All three were always USA-made, and since Stanley bought the National Hand Tool cold forming plant in Dallas in 1986 all three were probably produced in the same place, but yet Stanley kept all three lines' sockets distinctive, even when they were producing Challenger, Blackhawk, and Proto at the same time in the 1990s. Even today the Proto and Blackhawk sockets have distinct design differences - the Proto sockets are generally taller than the equivalent Blackhawk sockets, and the Blackhawk SAE sockets have a tapered drive end in the larger sizes. I suspect the quality is probably essentially equal, but find it interesting that they are making a distinct socket design in the USA that is only sold as Blackhawk, a brand with pretty limited distribution.
 

Vinko

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
5,829
Location
Los Angeles
I have and use a few Challenger tools, along with mostly Proto and Blackhawk. Challenger tools were excellent. Not really tool polisher items, but good solid tools. Blackhawk have been good to me as well; I enjoy using them and they are a bargain. My long winded experience with late-production Challenger and what happened to the brand is described below. In my industry these mid-priced tools are more common than Proto or Wright. I'm no expert, just relaying what I know and what I think.

I have (somewhere) a Challenger catalog and price list from 1998, so they were produced at least until then. Around that time I bought a 3/8"-drive SAE standard and deep 12-point socket set in a red metal box, with a ratchet and two extensions, that I still have. I loved it when socket sets came in metal boxes or trays. The Challenger sockets and extensions from that era are the corporate Stanley sockets and extensions that were being sold or rebranded (as Stanley Professional, Husky, Jensen, Wilde, etc.) around that time, and the ratchet is identical to a couple Blackhawk USA ratchets that I purchased much more recently, around 2010.

Based on that Challenger catalog and a Proto catalog that I received at the same time, as well as my memory of Proto's website from back then, Stanley was marketing:

Proto as the heavy-duty, full line industrial tool brand
Challenger as the medium-duty, partial line industrial tool brand
Mac as the heavy-duty, full line automotive tool brand
Blackhawk as the medium-duty, partial line automotive tool brand

Evidently in the early 2000s, they dropped Challenger and moved Blackhawk into Challenger's former position under Proto, and Blackhawk is no longer promoted as an "automotive" brand. I'd imagine this is at least partly due to mom & pop parts stores largely disappearing and chain parts stores switching to their own, less expensive house brands.

It's interesting to me that all the Blackhawk sockets that I have that were produced under Stanley appear to be different from both the contemporary Challenger sockets and Proto sockets. All three were always USA-made, and since Stanley bought the National Hand Tool cold forming plant in Dallas in 1986 all three were probably produced in the same place, but yet Stanley kept all three lines' sockets distinctive, even when they were producing Challenger, Blackhawk, and Proto at the same time in the 1990s. Even today the Proto and Blackhawk sockets have distinct design differences - the Proto sockets are generally taller than the equivalent Blackhawk sockets, and the Blackhawk SAE sockets have a tapered drive end in the larger sizes. I suspect the quality is probably essentially equal, but find it interesting that they are making a distinct socket design in the USA that is only sold as Blackhawk, a brand with pretty limited distribution.


This is great info. Thanks for posting this.

One thing that's interesting to me is the way tools are marketed. So, for example in the above, tools (like Proto) marketed as the "heavy-duty industrial" brand and the (then) Blackhawk's as a HD automotive brand. I assume there wasn't much crossover between industrial and auto mechanics?

More contemporary: some of the mechanics are always surprised when I mention Proto or Armstrong or Wright to them and they realize that for the money, they can have a hell of a tool (and sometimes for a lot less dough if not with an option for financing) than some of the current tool truck brands.
 

jerseykat1

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
714
Location
Central New Jersey
i got a set of challenger wrenches when i went to tech school back in 1998. i still have some of the metric and all of the Standard wrenches. Decent wrenches.
 

four.cycle

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2015
Messages
28,576
Location
Tacoma, Washington
I do not find "Challenger" in the "sticky" thread, and this appears (from a Google search) to be the most logical place for a dedicated "Challenger" thread.
My latest "Challenger" acquisition, which is way cool because this dates from about the same time that my old man was carrying "Challenger" tools at his store. One of my favorite screwdrivers is a green-handled "Challenger".
Just a couple quickies here. Need to get all this stuff scanned and sent to Mark.
1963 Challenger Catalog CH63-301 front cover.jpg1963 Challenger Catalog CH63-301 pp 2-3.jpg

The whole Plomb/Proto/Penens/Challenger/Pendleton thing just makes my head spin. Is there one definitive source for information on that? AA? TA? papaws?

* If there is a particular item/genre you want to see a catalog image of here, let me know. I only did a couple pages because image resolution with my little point-and-shoot leaves something to be desired.

( as an aside: love the cover shot of the guy in the natty suit checking out the pipe wrench. somehow I just can't see that guy with his white shirt and tie and fancy fedora upside-down under his kitchen sink spewing a stream of obscenities along the lines of Darren McGavin in "A Christmas Story". )
 
Last edited:

shanny19

Well-known member
Joined
May 24, 2014
Messages
1,209
Location
PNW
The whole Plomb/Proto/Penens/Challenger/Pendleton thing just makes my head spin. Is there one definitive source for information on that? AA? TA? papaws?

Don't forget P&C, which is more plentiful in the PNW than any of the other subs.
Just added a P&C octagon handle ball pein to the herd 3 days ago.
 

Downwindtracker 2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,715
Location
BC
Challenger is a second tier Proto, much like Blue Point to Snap-On. In Canada, they used a number of designs for combinations. Not just poorer finished Proto, either. One poster once pointed out different time frames. I have some, they are well finished, just not as well as Proto. My latest Challenger set of open ends wrenches are indistinguishable from Proto .
 

lardy1

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
3,393
Location
Michigan
I have a set of Challenger metric combination wrenches. Top notch, in my opinion. I also have a couple different sets of Proto/Blackhawks. Same deal. Very nice but a bit on the unrefined side. Very functional, however.
 

FMB4

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Messages
2,926
I've had a Challenger 3/8" drive 12 pnt metric socket set since the mid '80s. They might not be finished as well as Proto, but the diff isn't by much (btw, the ratchet is a 'round head'). IIRC, Challenger back then ran ~ 20% less than Proto as far as cost goes.
 

lardy1

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Messages
3,393
Location
Michigan
I have a set of deep well Challenger sockets with very small ID stamping. Kind of a pain but still very nice set. I typically count my sockets from the end of the rail anyway.
 

FMB4

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Messages
2,926
Yes, the ID stamping is smaller than Proto (which isn't that big either). I forgot about this fact. This is something to consider for those of us who don't use sockets on daily basis (pro/everyday mechanics, of course, can 'size' their sockets at a glance).
 

Downwindtracker 2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
1,715
Location
BC
We are spoiled with the sockets we get now, even the Chinese sockets in my Mastercraft 70% off blow molded case are well made and finished. I can't say the same thing about first line sockets from 40 or 50 years ago. I think Snap-On might have been the exception, thus their rep. I could never afford them , so I'm only guessing. My 40 year old Challenger 3/8 deep metric set certainly are a bit crude. They have lasted, so the quality of the steel and heat treatment is there.
 

Adam Aragon

Active member
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
25
Location
Woodway, TX
I do not find "Challenger" in the "sticky" thread, and this appears (from a Google search) to be the most logical place for a dedicated "Challenger" thread.
My latest "Challenger" acquisition, which is way cool because this dates from about the same time that my old man was carrying "Challenger" tools at his store. One of my favorite screwdrivers is a green-handled "Challenger".
Just a couple quickies here. Need to get all this stuff scanned and sent to Mark.
1963 Challenger Catalog CH63-301 front cover.jpg1963 Challenger Catalog CH63-301 pp 2-3.jpg

The whole Plomb/Proto/Penens/Challenger/Pendleton thing just makes my head spin. Is there one definitive source for information on that? AA? TA? papaws?

* If there is a particular item/genre you want to see a catalog image of here, let me know. I only did a couple pages because image resolution with my little point-and-shoot leaves something to be desired.

( as an aside: love the cover shot of the guy in the natty suit checking out the pipe wrench. somehow I just can't see that guy with his white shirt and tie and fancy fedora upside-down under his kitchen sink spewing a stream of obscenities along the lines of Darren McGavin in "A Christmas Story". )
image.jpgPlease help, I cannot find this anywhere. Specifically, the number L6112P I cannot find on listings for sale or Alloy Artifacts. Thank you.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom