Champion Commandair Compressor?

[Burgerkong]

I have the opportunity to buy this pump for $50 OBO. It's a Champion BWA, rated at 700-995RPM (995 for a 3HP unit), 125PSI, 15.31CFM (3HP) and is single stage (http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/CHAMPION-Air-Compressor-Pump-5FTU4). I figured I can plumb it to a 30gal tank and add a 3HP motor and still end up with a pretty decent compressor for the same price as a Kobalt or a Husky. Decent buy?

 

[mayday0017]

I would say it is.... Is it new or used? Looking at the marks on the lines I'm guessing used, do you know it works?

 

[Burgerkong]

Well it's missing the lines that tie the head unloaders on all three cylinders together. No idea if its work, but that's the first thing I'll try. The missing lines shouldn't pose much of a problem, anyone other than seeing if the flywheel turns smoothly? I'll check for knocks and leaks, but looking that the box it seems that the oil wasn't drained fully before being tipped over.

 

[Burgerkong]

He said the lines weren't cut and the original owner (the city) wanted the pump replaced under regular maintenance. Not sure if that is good or bad.

 

[Burgerkong]

I'm kicking myself in the foot for not picking up this Manchester tank for $200 plus tax when Princess Auto was clearing them out. But I think that's too little pump for a tank thats too big.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Apparently you missed this thread about a guy that bought a saylor beall compressor that "just needed a little tlc" and it turned out to be a piston rod that shattered... lol... Turned into an adventure...

FYI, everything on Grainger is overpriced...

Check the air filters too, that should give you a heads up on how well it was serviced...

If you can't verify it works, then I would be real hesitant about paying that much for it... After all that's only worth about $6 in scrap value... You also have to realize all the time you will end up putting into that to make it work, and finding all the other parts you need... Maybe he will take $30 for it?

 

[Burgerkong]

Apparently you missed this thread about a guy that bought a saylor beall compressor that "just needed a little tlc" and it turned out to be a piston rod that shattered... lol... Turned into an adventure...

FYI, everything on Grainger is overpriced...

Check the air filters too, that should give you a heads up on how well it was serviced...

If you can't verify it works, then I would be real hesitant about paying that much for it... After all that's only worth about $6 in scrap value... You also have to realize all the time you will end up putting into that to make it work, and finding all the other parts you need... Maybe he will take $30 for it?

Haha, I posted in there too. Yeah I will have to see. Will definitely negotiate a lower price, especially since I cannot see it operating. At least I can shake the pump and see if any rods have shattered since it only weighs 60 pounds LOL . Aside from that, anything I can check in situ?

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Buy it before I do. I have been considering that pump all week.

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[Burgerkong]

Buy it before I do. I have been considering that pump all week.

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2

I'm going over tomorrow. Did you buy that blueprint cabinet way up in North Bay for $50?

 

[Grounded Ken]

From the looks in the pic. the discharge lines are under the pump, they tie the heads together being a single stage pump. When you go to check the machine since you can't see it run is:
1. Turn the pump over by hand and feel for any binding, should be nice and smooth.
2. Unscrew the inlet filter, put a finger over the hole and turn the pump over by hand,
you should feel a pull by the vacuum, do the same on the exhaust side, you should
feel some pressure. Do this on all three cylinders.
3. Take off the oil drain plug and take a look at the oil, if it glitters, run, run, run. It's
not sparkling for a good reason.

This will work up to three Hp. so says Champion, 15 CFM, maybe on piston displacement not in actual cfm, at 3 hp. you'll get 10-11, and it's used, so probably less.

 

[Burgerkong]

Yeah oops, I just realized the lines are all there, just disconnected. It looks like the oil wasn't drained before tipping the pump over, don't know if there's still oil left?

 

[Burgerkong]

Just came back with it, only went down to $45 seeing a Solberg muffler was missing. Pump looks great, properly intaking and exhausting air, no glittering oil and a smooth flywheel. It turns out the guy that sold me the pump was an air compressor technician, this specific pump was in use by the City of Mississauga in a canine shelter used to blow dry stuff and wasn't used that much. At the end of five years, the city wanted it replaced just due to its age, hence why it ended up in his stash. Surprisingly, I also found out after his stint in the air compressor business he became a tool truck driver, specifically MAC. I walked out of there after an hour or so swapping stories and all with a new contact and a MAC catalog...

Oh and also this:

Now for the bad, like I said above, it's missing one of the mufflers, and also a bolt from the filter plate on the cylinder head. However everything turns over very smoothly, makes a nice chugging sound. I will have to locate a new bolt and degrease everything. Probably have to take the cylinder heads off as well to make sure oil didn't get everywhere. Paint looks amazing! Plus the two filters that were included are flawless, practically new.

Sorry for the massive amount of pictures!

 

[Burgerkong]

Here's a video:

 

[EOC_Jason]

Bolt is a bolt...

The solberg air filter you can buy on Amazon (Solberg's direct store is on there)...

 

[Burgerkong]

The problem is that Solbergs are hard to get here in Canadeh

 

[Grounded Ken]

Congrats!

 

[Burgerkong]

I don't know if I should get a Chinese Solberg clone, most people on eBay want $40 to ship a small silencer here (plus the $15 for the actual silencer)!

 

[Burgerkong]

Looks like I found a potential motor for it, but that has gotta be a loud one. 3450RPM's !

http://barrie.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-trucks-Small-motor-W0QQAdIdZ468073092

 

[Burgerkong]

I can't believe I'm regretting my purchase already:

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...ower-220-volt-single-phase-W0QQAdIdZ489700729

Only caveat? Guy says iots a 5 gallon horizontal tank which is odd since Quincy doesn't have one that small.

IF I do swing for it, I'll end up with a working pump and motor, but a tank that won't fit in the space. Should I sell the Champion? But that means I'll be close in price to getting a brand new compressor (after factoring in the tank)...something to consider. If I was buying one compressor to last me a lifetime, it'd have to be a dual stage 7.5HP unit or more.

 

[Burgerkong]

I think that Marathon doesn't put out 3 shaft hp's. Maybe I should be looking at a 5hp motor? Any suggestions?

 

[Burgerkong]

I just got a brain fart. Why not buy the CH unit I linked to earlier, that way I know I have a decent pump as well as a motor and a tank?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=201547

 

[Burgerkong]

Just realized Gardner-Denver and Champion are one and the same. I'm going ahead with the CH purchase. Figured it's worth it for $150.

 

[Burgerkong]

Wish me luck, picking up the CH unit today!

 

[Burgerkong]

Picked it up for $180. I think a slower motor is in order, this one is LOUD and FAST.

 

[Burgerkong]

Started to tear the Champion pump apart, found quite a bit of carbon deposits. Otherwise, looks to be in pretty good shape, bore has no gouges, the factory cross hatching is still visible,. Just send an email to Champion for a gasket kit, as well as the torque vaslues for the pump.

Any thoughts?

 

[madbasser]

I say clean it up and run it!!
I have seen those pumps at work and they run really hot. Looks maybe some ring wear and maybe some oil is leaking into the cylinder but the real way to know is run it and see if you oil in the tank when you dump the water out. It's just a compressor not a race engine so I think you are good. Put a good oil/water seperator and forget about it. Run it till dies!!!
Good work getting it all put together and assembled. You will have a decent compressor for a fraction of the cost of a new one.

 

[EOC_Jason]

The oil is probably from the compressor sitting on its side for so long...

 

[Burgerkong]

Probably, there was quite a bit of oil in the heads. Plus it was slightly milky. I've tried running the CH unit and it is LOUD, but that's probably a byproduct of the 3450 RPM motor, no feet on the tank, and no intake filters/silencers.

 

[Grounded Ken]

Before you run this machine with that motor, do your home work! The Champion Commandair was designed to run with the 1750 rpm motor. Get your rpms right.
I tried finding the Commandair info on the Champion site, but couldn't get it to download.
Go to Mckenzieair.com, you can get the specs. on this unit before you turn it into a thrasher.

 

[Burgerkong]

Yeah, don't worry, I'm not even close to running it (the Champion, have only used the CH pump and its motor together so far) . I still have to calculate the pulley sizes, and get the rebuild kit from Champion. They won't even give me the freaking manual! I'm going to call around and see if the local shops can tell me the torque values.

EDIT: Ahhhhh, I know why I couldn't find any info on my pump, turns out it goes by another name! I've been googling 'BWA', whereas most sites use 'CW1'! Even Champion's own site says BWA, whereas Mckenzie Air's brochure says 'CW1'.

DOUBLE EDIT! I just realized 'CW1' is the older generation of my pump, it's only rated at 100PSI, whereas mine's rated at 125PSI. BUT I did find a whole slew of manuals for the CW1 pump, so I will base my values from there.

 

[Burgerkong]

No wonder my Campbell Hausfeld unit is loud! Look at that filter!

Really a tube with a bit of foam inside of it. Plumbing that would be fun! Noticed they closed off the second set of valves on the head with a plug, wonder what's inside! Would there be a benefit if I took the plug out and tapped it for a bung and installed some lines? Maybe a tee?

Pressure switch was FILLED with eggs and cobwebs when i got it, took it apart to clean. Looks like Furnas is still in business?

Buyers remorse already! Everything is brand new! Only problem is that its $200 more plus that tank is twice the size I need. Maybe plumb it in as a secondary tank?

Wowow! Check your local Princess Auto's back room for broken machines and the like! I was inquiring on the air compressor tanks they used to sell and they told me they don't carry any more, BUT several compressors are in the back with broken pumps and he said I could buy the tank after he strips everything off for $150. Or I could pick this gem up (pump blew up and leaked oil EVERYWHERE) for $350 including the WEG motor, pressure switches, tank and all the other parts other than the pump:

 

[EOC_Jason]

I'm sure that "filter" is just the breather for the crankcase.. What does the intake filter look like on the other side of the head?

As for the other outlets that are capped off. I wouldn't bother you aren't going to gain any airflow by using them. I'm sure the same head has been used on multiple models / designs. Probably just to give flexibility when piping depending on where everything else is mounted.

 

[Burgerkong]

I'm sure that "filter" is just the breather for the crankcase.. What does the intake filter look like on the other side of the head?

As for the other outlets that are capped off. I wouldn't bother you aren't going to gain any airflow by using them. I'm sure the same head has been used on multiple models / designs. Probably just to give flexibility when piping depending on where everything else is mounted.

Yeah I was a bit premature on that. Looking at the parts list, I'm not sure I have one as it was listed 'optional' and the guy I bought it off of didn't take anything off. I'll have to check where the intake is, probably on the other side of the head. Not sure running without a filter is the best thing to do. Should I power wash the inside of the tank while I have all the drains open?

 

[Grounded Ken]

Why?

 

[Burgerkong]

Clean off all the rust and other ****? Or is this bad since it is a protective coating or sorts and cleaning it off will cause it to rust even quicker?

 

[EOC_Jason]

I wouldn't clean out the tank, it would probably cause more problems than it would solve. Just make sure it's dry...

The air intake on that CH pump is on the opposite side of the top of the head where those outlet holes are.

Since you have it all apart, I like to get some pipe fittings and a ball valve to make draining the tank easier. Those little draincocks are such a pain to get to and there is never enough clearance underneath to fit something to catch the water.

I'm confused. Are you fixing up the CH pump or the Champion pump or both? lol...

 

[Burgerkong]

I wouldn't clean out the tank, it would probably cause more problems than it would solve. Just make sure it's dry...

The air intake on that CH pump is on the opposite side of the top of the head where those outlet holes are.

Since you have it all apart, I like to get some pipe fittings and a ball valve to make draining the tank easier. Those little draincocks are such a pain to get to and there is never enough clearance underneath to fit something to catch the water.

I'm confused. Are you fixing up the CH pump or the Champion pump or both? lol...

Both of them, but I'm concentrating my efforts on the Champion pump. Just going to get a silencer for the CH pump, change the oil and check for any significant play then throw it back on the tank and use it while I source all the parts for the Champion.

At the same time I'll be installing a regulator, filter, auto drain etc and an aftercooler. Never had any of those on there from the factory! Definitely going to add an extension onto the draincock at the bottom of the tank. I can tilt my unit slightly to get to it, but that's only because it's a tiny unit.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Yeah, don't worry, I'm not even close to running it (the Champion, have only used the CH pump and its motor together so far) . I still have to calculate the pulley sizes, and get the rebuild kit from Champion. They won't even give me the freaking manual! I'm going to call around and see if the local shops can tell me the torque values.

EDIT: Ahhhhh, I know why I couldn't find any info on my pump, turns out it goes by another name! I've been googling 'BWA', whereas most sites use 'CW1'! Even Champion's own site says BWA, whereas Mckenzie Air's brochure says 'CW1'.

DOUBLE EDIT! I just realized 'CW1' is the older generation of my pump, it's only rated at 100PSI, whereas mine's rated at 125PSI. BUT I did find a whole slew of manuals for the CW1 pump, so I will base my values from there.

Go to www.mastertoolrepair.com and look up that pump. I found a full parts list and exploded diagram including torque specs for a CH pump I am rebuilding. Maybe you could email them and get more info on that pump.

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2

 

[Burgerkong]

Go to www.mastertoolrepair.com and look up that pump. I found a full parts list and exploded diagram including torque specs for a CH pump I am rebuilding. Maybe you could email them and get more info on that pump.

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2

Emailed them. I looked at the manual and couldn't find an exact match with the model number on their site. Trying to remove the big tank nut right now, that sucker is TIGHT. I'll give it a try with my 48" pipe wrench, my largest pair of Channellocks didn't even budge the nut. Tapped on the nut with a hammer to get it to let go and nothing happened unfortunately. If it won't come out, it's staying in.

Look's like it will be fun to add a silencer onto the CH pump:

The inlets were hiding underneath a metal coverplate. Can't find any threads, have no idea how the factory optional piece is attached. Maybe I'll have to bend a new cover plate to seal the side of the inlets as well, and then tap it for the silencer.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Probably just had some felt filter in there originally, or maybe that filter foam that eventually deteriorated (and got sucked in)... *shrug* I'm sure you can McGuyver something.