Champion compressor pump

[Sumboodie]

No ID tag, just a sticker with Champion and made in USA.

It's a newish pump on an old 80 gallon tank (1961 I think) and a 5hp 3 phase motor.

Considering using it with a 5hp 240v motor if the specs are decent. Current setup is a box store 3hp 60 gallon vertical. Works ok, but can't keep up with stuff like air sander, die grinder, sandblaster

 

[micromind]

If it ran with a 5HP 3 phase motor, it'll run with a 5HP single phase one too. But only if it's true 5HP and not one of those chintzy ones that's advertised 5HP and is actually more like 3.

A true 5HP single phase motor will draw 20 - 25 amps.

Further, you'll need to get a 5HP single phase starter. The existing 3 phase one (if it actually exists) won't handle a single phase motor.....well, not for very long anyway.......

Champion compressor pumps are generally considered to be some of the best. Properly maintained, they will last a very long time.

 

[Citation]

Share a picture and people can probably ID the pump.

 

[Sumboodie]

Share a picture and people can probably ID the pump.

I did but guess it didn't load. I'll get another tonight when i.get home.

 

[Sumboodie]

If it ran with a 5HP 3 phase motor, it'll run with a 5HP single phase one too. But only if it's true 5HP and not one of those chintzy ones that's advertised 5HP and is actually more like 3.

A true 5HP single phase motor will draw 20 - 25 amps.

Further, you'll need to get a 5HP single phase starter. The existing 3 phase one (if it actually exists) won't handle a single phase motor.....well, not for very long anyway.......

Champion compressor pumps are generally considered to be some of the best. Properly maintained, they will last a very long time.

Yeah, around 20 amps draw for 5hp at 85% efficiency.

Probably run it off a 30 or 40 amp subpanel in the connex. would just be a boiler and couple LED lights and a "courtesy" outlet or two.

Have a couple hundred feet of 6/10 awg Okonite wire i could use. Double up the feed wires

 

[Sumboodie]

Hopefully these load. For some reason my phone takes like 10MB photos and with internet speeds we have it errors out things.

 

[malibu101]

Look at the top of the unloader (the round thing on the opposite side of the pully) there's a little area that is unpainted.
There should be numbers stamped there, that's what I think you're looking for.

 

[Citation]

I think that's an R-15 pump. It's a disc valve unit and current versions are rated at something like 17 cfm at 175psi and closer to 20 at lower pressures with a 5hp motor. They are very good pumps.
Here's a long thread on the things

Champion R15B Air Compressor Rebuild Info, Photos, Tips (Long)

After rebuilding two Champion R15B pumps over the past two years I felt it was time to share what I learned, in the hope that I can save others some time and effort. Basics: The Champion R15B pump is a two-cylinder, two-stage, splash lubricated design, utilizing a cast iron crankcase and a cast...

www.garagejournal.com

If you add it to a box store 60 gallon vertical tank I would definitely look at bolting things down as it will be even more top heavy. In the specs that pump is something like 125lb while many of the pumps on the big box compressors are probably half that weight.

 

[Sumboodie]

 

[Citation]

Based on the sn, that looks like an R15 pump. I suspect that is one of the best 5hp pumps on the market. They list for around $2k for the pump alone.

 

[Sumboodie]

Based on the sn, that looks like an R15 pump. I suspect that is one of the best 5hp pumps on the market. They list for around $2k for the pump alone.

I paid i think $150 for it with plans of using the tank for fuel and trashing the rest. Been sitting in my yard for ~2 years now.

Wonder if the tank is ok. It's listed 1969 I think.

Any idea on CFM?

 

[micromind]

If it's 5HP, it'll be around 17 or so @ 175 PSI. A bit more at lower pressure.

 

[Sumboodie]

If it's 5HP, it'll be around 17 or so @ 175 PSI. A bit more at lower pressure.

Current setup run at 150 psi, which has been plenty. On around 125, off at 150

 

[Sumboodie]

Velvor, Homes Deport has "5hp" compressor motors for around $250... or should I look for 7hp?

 

[micromind]

If you want true 5HP, look at the full-load current. 5HP 240 single phase will be 20 - 25.

 

[Sumboodie]

If you want true 5HP, look at the full-load current. 5HP 240 single phase will be 20 - 25.

Yes. The one Velvor has is 22 amp full load.

34 whatever rpm though. Motor on it is 17 something.

 

[Wrench97]

What frame size is the motor currently mounted on it 184?

https://esrmotors.com/Literature/References/ESR%20NEMA%20Chart%202011.pdf

 

[Citation]

I would try to find some specs on that pump. It might be able to run on a 3hp motor if the pulley ratios are correct. A cheap 5hp motor would be sufficient but many not last as long as a good one. Then again, if you only occasionally use it/work it hard, that might be a lifetime. A 3400 RPM vs 1700 RPM motor isn't the end of the world. The problem with the higher RPM motor is you need to change the pulley ratios to get the pump turning at the correct speed for the motor power. If the motor pulley is too small you won't get full flow out of the pump. If the pulley is too big then you will overload the motor. Thus erring on the smaller side is safer so long as the pump isn't spinning too slow. Another problem with a 3400 RPM motor is the smaller pulley size can't transfer as much torque to the belt. Thus a small pulley is more likely to slip. Sure you could make the pump side pulley even bigger but that's more expensive etc. Basically a 1700 RPM motor let's you get the same power at a speed that is more useful in many applications.

So, yes, you probably can drive the thing with a 3450 RPM, 22A motor. You will need a pulley ~1/2 the diameter of what ever is on the current motor. It won't be ideal for industrial use but for home shop/small shop use I doubt the difference will matter.

 

[micromind]

What frame size is the motor currently mounted on it 184?

https://esrmotors.com/Literature/References/ESR%20NEMA%20Chart%202011.pdf

I'd bet a lot that it is a 184T frame (1 - 1/8" shaft). Very common for a 5HP industrial motor, single or 3 phase.

The new motor could be a 56 frame (5/8" shaft), 143T or 145T frame (7/8" shaft) or it could be a 182T or 184T frame. It's hard to tell with cheap motors.

As noted, if the old motor was 17XX RPM and the new one is 34XX, simply replace the pulley with one of 1/2 the diameter. With a non-industrial motor, I'd go with 1/2 diameter, next size smaller.

 

[Sumboodie]

What frame size is the motor currently mounted on it 184?

https://esrmotors.com/Literature/References/ESR%20NEMA%20Chart%202011.pdf

What frame size is the motor currently mounted on it 184?

Looks like it had a big *** motor at one point. The motor on it had cut slots, which I can do too

https://esrmotors.com/Literature/References/ESR%20NEMA%20Chart%202011.pdf

 

[Sumboodie]

I'd bet a lot that it is a 184T frame (1 - 1/8" shaft). Very common for a 5HP industrial motor, single or 3 phase.

The new motor could be a 56 frame (5/8" shaft), 143T or 145T frame (7/8" shaft) or it could be a 182T or 184T frame. It's hard to tell with cheap motors.

As noted, if the old motor was 17XX RPM and the new one is 34XX, simply replace the pulley with one of 1/2 the diameter. With a non-industrial motor, I'd go with 1/2 diameter, next size smaller.

Would need like a 2" pulley.

Can't find specs on the pump max rpm, possible the pulley would work.

I looked into a VFD, but for 5 hp they aren't very cheap. 1 phase motor is right around same price.

I don't use air often, but sometimes need a fair bit, like plasma cutter, die grinder, sandblaster.

 

[Sumboodie]

Found a page that says max rpm is 1050.

3450 rpm motor would be fine with around a 5" pulley i think. Id need to re measure, but seems like it was a 17" pulley on the pump.

Musta been spinning WAY slow... only around 550 rpm

 

[Wrench97]

I had a Champion with that pump at the fleet shop you'll want to stick with a 1735-1750 rpm motor and at least 5 hp.
The shop got it in 1986 it ran everyday with no problems until the end of last July when the company shut down.
5hp single phase are hard to come by used since a lot of people are looking for them to swap out a 3 phase.
184t frame motors are pretty common expect to pay at least $600 for a new one of the correct size and rpm.

 

[Citation]

Ok, this manual is for the R15b pump. I think you have the R15a version but I'm going to assume similar specs

https://www.nuvair.com/manuals/R15B_Manual.pdf

The pump can work with a 3 HP motor. The max rpm is based on a 7.5hp motor. With 5hp you should be in the low 800 rpm range. The manual included pulley sizes based on a 1750rpm motor. Cutting the numbers in half, you need a 3.5" pulley to get 175 psi with a 5hp motor.
If you set the max pressure lower then you can run a slightly larger pulley. The table lists the pulley size and CFM of you limit the pump to 125 psi. Net result is higher CFM for the same motor size but lower max pressure. I would stick with the 175 psi numbers then maybe reduce your peak pressure by 10 psi or so. That will ensure you don't over load the motor.

 

[Sumboodie]

Ok, this manual is for the R15b pump. I think you have the R15a version but I'm going to assume similar specs

https://www.nuvair.com/manuals/R15B_Manual.pdf

The pump can work with a 3 HP motor. The max rpm is based on a 7.5hp motor. With 5hp you should be in the low 800 rpm range. The manual included pulley sizes based on a 1750rpm motor. Cutting the numbers in half, you need a 3.5" pulley to get 175 psi with a 5hp motor.
If you set the max pressure lower then you can run a slightly larger pulley. The table lists the pulley size and CFM of you limit the pump to 125 psi. Net result is higher CFM for the same motor size but lower max pressure. I would stick with the 175 psi numbers then maybe reduce your peak pressure by 10 psi or so. That will ensure you don't over load the motor.

I'd probably run it at 150psi. On at ~120, off at 150.

Found a video for 7.5hp single to 3 phase for $150, going to try that out.
If that works, I'll have maybe $350 into this compressor.

 

[Sumboodie]

Looking at the tank, there's no provision to drain water from it.

Someone welded on a pipe at near the bottom but would be a fair bit of water still. Not sure how well air pressure blows out the water?

There a reasonable way to test the tank? I've seen water used?

It passed some state pressure vessel test but I have no idea what that entails nor what transpired since that inspection.

 

[finn]

Looking at the tank, there's no provision to drain water from it.

Someone welded on a pipe at near the bottom but would be a fair bit of water still. Not sure how well air pressure blows out the water?

There a reasonable way to test the tank? I've seen water used?

It passed some state pressure vessel test but I have no idea what that entails nor what transpired since that inspection.

My Champion vertical tank compressor has a siphon tube from the valve to the bottom of the tank, all internal. That makes it easy to blow water out of the tank without bending down to reach the valve. Pretty common design on Champion compressors.

 

[Wrench97]

Looking at the tank, there's no provision to drain water from it.

Someone welded on a pipe at near the bottom but would be a fair bit of water still. Not sure how well air pressure blows out the water?

There a reasonable way to test the tank? I've seen water used?

It passed some state pressure vessel test but I have no idea what that entails nor what transpired since that inspection.

In Delaware a guy shows up once every 2 years with a mirror on a extendable handle and looks for cracks on the tank mostly where the legs attach, collects a check for $175 and mails a certificate that has to be mounted on the wall near the compressor.........

 

[Sumboodie]

Ended up with this one too.

$105 at auction. $5 bid and $100 fees (yeah).

R40 pump.

 

[Jswain]

Ended up with this one too.

$105 at auction. $5 bid and $100 fees (yeah).

R40 pump.

Man that's cheap. Nice haul

 

[Sumboodie]

Man that's cheap. Nice haul

Just need to make it work.

 

[The Cobbler]

Just need to make it work.

does it have issues ? in any case let me be the first to say " U **** "

 

[Sumboodie]

does it have issues ? in any case let me be the first to say " U **** "

Dead motor

 

[The Cobbler]

that's still a smoking deal as far as I' concerned !

 

[Sumboodie]

Dead motor per the info sheet.

The tank drain isn't correct either, no idea what they did there!

There were 10-12 compressor, some didn't sell. This was the smallest. Couple had like 50-60hp motors, 4 cylinder pumps, like 150+cfm

 

[Sumboodie]

R40 pump... will a 5hp motor work?

Pulley is maybe 6" while 15hp motor has like 9" pulley.

The paper on the rank says to use a 10hp?

They are around $1000. The 5hp is free.

 

[Citation]

It looks like the R40 is targeting 15hp motors. Per the sales sheet it only mentions 15hp and the specs suggest a 15hp motor runs the pump at about 800rpm which is roughly the middle of the 425-1000rpm spec. You might be able to use a 10hp motor but it seems like 5 is too small.

 

[Citation]

As I recall you have an R15 pump on the first compressor. Combine that pump with your 5hp motor and the new tank and call it good. Conversely, if you can do the 10hp, combine that with the R40 setup and you will have plenty of air!

 

[Sumboodie]

As I recall you have an R15 pump on the first compressor. Combine that pump with your 5hp motor and the new tank and call it good. Conversely, if you can do the 10hp, combine that with the R40 setup and you will have plenty of air!

Yeah, just the R40 one is all complete with aftercooler, cooling pipes, etc. The R15 is cobbled together.

Figured if I "geared down" that a 5hp could run it. Less CFM, but that should be ok. Current compressor is like 8cfm so anything over that is a decent improvement.

 

[Citation]

Yeah, just the R40 one is all complete with aftercooler, cooling pipes, etc. The R15 is cobbled together.

Figured if I "geared down" that a 5hp could run it. Less CFM, but that should be ok. Current compressor is like 8cfm so anything over that is a decent improvement.

The problem is if you gear it down for a 5 hp motor you will be running the pump below it's minimum speed. That can cause lubrication issues. Using pulley sizes and knowing the motor RPM (1750 or so) you can calculate the pump speed. Based on the specs I found, with 15 hp that pump is turning around 800 rpm. The minimum speed is something like 425 RPM. That means you could slow it down to almost half it's current speed. That means it would need roughly 7.5hp to run (my numbers are off the top of my head so don't take them as fact). With 5 hp you would need to go about 1/3rd as fast as the 15 hp motor. That puts you at under 300 rpm thus too slow for the pump.