Change rotation on 115v ac motor?

[Twisted Sid]

I came across an add on CL today for 2 pool pumps. Went and looked at them and they both worked pretty good and I got them for $20 each. I have just a cheap HF drill press so first idea was to swap out the 1/3 hp motor it came with for the smaller of the two that has 1-1/8hp . I took it all apart, bolted the motor on and wired it all in only to find out it spins in the wrong direction.

So my question is how can I reverse the direction of this motor? Its a Franklin Electric motor 115/220, dual speed, single phase. I'll post a few pics of it after I get back from dinner.

 

[Twisted Sid]

Went down that road already and I messed up the control board by doing something stupid. So until I come across another cheap or free one, this is what I got.

 

[jefferyb_2]

Look at the motor nameplate and see if it says if it's reversible. If it is reversible it should say which motor leads to swap to make it reverse. I think you swap leads 5 and 8 in the start windings.

 

[stonesfan68]

I think that you just need to swap the two hot leads from one terminal to another.


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[805gregg]

Some will some won't, I now have 2 motors 1 that is in service because it rotates in the right direction and 1 that's waiting for a home

 

[Nowater]

Open up the part of the motor where the wires go in. Sometimes instructions to reverse rotation is on the inside of the cover. If not take a picture and note any numbers identifying the terminals inside. The posted picture would help.

 

[Twisted Sid]

I dont see anything that says reversible on the plates but 1/2 are worn off.
Here is some pics but I dont think they will help any

 

[Twisted Sid]

just went out and reversed the white and black wires, no change.

 

[shamrock12]

Changing the polarity on an AC motor will not change the direction of rotation. It is the motor windings that need to be reversed or re-wired. Usually the commercial/industrial duty AC motors will have the provision to allow you to change the motor windings.

Unfortunately, it appears the motor you have cannot be reversed.

 

[jefferyb_2]

Can you open it up more and see the internal wiring? That should be where the wires that need to be swapped are.

 

[Twisted Sid]

So in other words, I'm SOL and should take it to an electric motor shop and have them do it?

 

[mj_lover]

just a curiosity, thinking out loud really, not knowing which drill press you have, how its setup, etc. but could you mount the motor upside down? ie sticking up instead of down? (fabrication req'd most likely)
also, why go with well over triple the hp? can the drill handle that extra weight?
again, just thinking out loud/crazy talk

 

[Twisted Sid]

Thought about doing the motor flip and held it up there to see how it could be done but, I honestly thought it looked real hokey and didn't like it. Plus it would make it real top heavy.
The press is just the cheap HF special that I picked up for $30 from my dads friend. I've been keeping an eye out for a better/older one but just haven't been lucky enough to score the right deal. Thought I had a good deal on an old craftsman one but the seller backed out and decided to keep it at the last minute.
As far as handling the hp, one way to find out...

 

[blaperle]

Looks like a capacitor start induction run.
To reverse rotation you can reverse the polarity on the start winding only or you can reverse the polarity on the run winding only but not both.
you can also remove the rotor and reverse it in the stator and swap the end caps. all of these options require modifying and/ or rerouting the internal wires.

Brian

 

[OccupantRJ]

Lots of pump motors are not reversible because the impeller screws onto the end of the shaft with right hand threads. It would be undesirable in this case to allow reverse rotation. Does yours have a threaded shaft? You can twist the belt to compensate the improper rotation.

Side note. Pump motors can have a drill chuck screwed onto the end of the shaft to run drills, deburr tools, wire brushes, flex shafts, buffing wheels, etc. A multi-use power center.

 

[stonesfan68]

just went out and reversed the white and black wires, no change.

Well, it was worth a shot, I'm sorry that it didn't work out.


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[KenB]

If you want to fool around with it, this article will help. I did this to the HF belt sander mentioned and it works great.

http://www.lumberjocks.com/topics/48372


Ken

 

[crazy wheel]

Belt drive?
can you put a twist in the belt?
(think figure 8)

Might work if the pulleys aren't too close together.

 

[APEowner]

Well, they do make left hand drill bits....

 

[JimJamerino]

Mount a gear to the motor and another to the drive to reverse the rotation?

 

[DanarchyCustoms]

Mount a gear to the motor and another to the drive to reverse the rotation?

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Just depends how involved he wants to get. Haha. After all it is a HF drill press. Either chain drive or gear driven.

 

[Twisted Sid]

Don't want to get into gear driven and I think putting the belt into a figure 8 would cause a few more issues that I don't want to deal with.

Tried to take it into the local motor shop but they are closed until monday out on a "service call". So I came home and took the motor apart because I'm impatient with this type of thing. It actually came apart pretty easily and it doesn't seem to be in bad shape at all for a motor of unknown age. Both the bearings are good and the wires are still flexible and no corrosion.
So here is the innards. does anyone know what wires are for the start windings so I can just reverse those and be hopefully be done with this?

 

[Twisted Sid]

I don't suppose swapping the wires on the capacitor would do it would it?

 

[jefferyb_2]

Are the leads marked with numbers? Look for a #5 and #8 and swap those 2. That "should" do it, "if" the motor is reversible.

 

[shooting4life]

Well, they do make left hand drill bits....

Was gonna say the same thing

 

[Twisted Sid]

Only markings on it are "line 1" "High line" "low line"


And no, I'm not buying all new LH bits...

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Swapping L1 & L2 won't change anything. The motor has to be reversible. It will have leads with quick connects you can swap or you need to swap wires 5 & 8. Don't mess with trying to reverse the start/run winding wiring. All you'll do is smoke a capacitor or burn up a winding.

Tommy

 

[nickleone]

Go to:
http://www.franklin-electric.com/residential-light-commercial/motors.aspx
and do a search.

Nick

 

[Anglia Guy]

How about just mounting the motor around the other way. Then it will run in the opposite direction.

 

[gayler]

On the plus siide, it's a two speed motor!

 

[Twisted Sid]

Swapping L1 & L2 won't change anything. The motor has to be reversible. It will have leads with quick connects you can swap or you need to swap wires 5 & 8. Don't mess with trying to reverse the start/run winding wiring. All you'll do is smoke a capacitor or burn up a winding.

Tommy

It doesn't say anywhere on the tags that it isn't reversible but it has no open leads on the inside. Also without any labels on the wires, I do not know which ones are 5 & 8. Thats why I'm trying to find someone on here that can look at the pics and tell me what wires to swap. However, what you're saying about not messing with the starter windings is the complete opposite of everything that I have read or been told before which was, as long as I do either the starter or main windings (but not both) it will run the other direction.

Go to:
http://www.franklin-electric.com/residential-light-commercial/motors.aspx
and do a search.

Nick

Spent about a 1/2 hour looking at there site yesterday with little results and searching the model # on there site only gets me this:
Your search - 4105030400 - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "4105030400".

How about just mounting the motor around the other way. Then it will run in the opposite direction.

That was already talked about... too big and too heavy

 

[Nowater]

You opened the motor all the way up to the windings. I see the two pictures. The piece with the wires going to it, turn it over and look for the numbers on the other side of the terminals. That is where it is likely to be labeled.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

However, what you're saying about not messing with the starter windings is the complete opposite of everything that I have read or been told before which was, as long as I do either the starter or main windings (but not both) it will run the other direction.

OK, I know what you're trying to do now. I thought you meant switching the start & run windings. Yes, switching the wires for the start winding will reverse the motor. I didn't realize you were looking into it that deeply. Unfortunately, without being able to trace out the wires in person, I can't tell you which two wires to switch. Sorry!

Tommy

 

[Doozer75]

Replace the capacitor with an inductor.
That works to reverse a motor every time.
A wire change guess would be to swap the
grey and yellow wires. Grey because it seems
to go from power to the cap and yellow because
it seems to go from power to the stationary switch.

--Doozer

 

[Twisted Sid]

You opened the motor all the way up to the windings. I see the two pictures. The piece with the wires going to it, turn it over and look for the numbers on the other side of the terminals. That is where it is likely to be labeled.

Nope, nothing...

Replace the capacitor with an inductor.
That works to reverse a motor every time.
A wire change guess would be to swap the
grey and yellow wires. Grey because it seems
to go from power to the cap and yellow because
it seems to go from power to the stationary switch.

--Doozer

An inductor? Could you be a little more specific? I have no idea what that is.
Tried switching the gray from the cap and the yellow wire directly across from it and all it did was hum.

 

[Albiemanmike]

This May or may not be helpful. I found this on the Franklin site in one of their spec sheets. Doesn't mention your model number but I would bet the wire color codes are the same through their model line.

(1)
Main winding - yellow to black
Start winding - yellow to red
(2)
Y = Yellow lead - line amps
B = Black lead - main winding amps
R = Red lead - start or auxiliary winding amps

http://www.franklin-electric.com/aim-manual/page-13.aspx

 

[Twisted Sid]

Just an update to this.
This motor is not reversible and from what I was told, lots of pump motors are not. The problem with this one is the dual speed windings. I was told they share a common wire and then the start windings are also tied into the high speed line somewhere too. So the only way to reverse it would be to pull the windings apart and then move the wires around which if I tired, I would probably mess up the winding coating and that would cause more issues or, if I had it done it would end up costing more then a new motor.
So I ended up doing what I really didn't want to and fabed a new stand and flipped it upside down.